Power Kite Forum - Flysurfer Sonic-FR

Flysurfer Sonic-FR

grigorib - 2-3-2015 at 08:03 PM

Boys and girls, the racing ones
You know you want this... http://www.flysurfer.com/produkte/kites/sonic-fr/
Dont'cha?

PHREERIDER - 3-3-2015 at 09:08 AM

yep

B-Roc - 3-3-2015 at 06:21 PM

$2800 for an 18m. I'm really surprised and disappointed to see Ozone and FS focusing so much of their efforts on this end of the market. Has it really come down to the fact that racing is the be all end all of this sport? What % of the kiting population really has need for a kite like this or the new Ozone depowerable race kite?

I understand these innovations will eventually trickle down to the other kites in their portfolio but its just disappointing to see that this niche market seems to be what the kite makers are hoping will save or advance the foil market.

Is the foil user base growing or shrinking? I really don't know. I'm not even sure if kite surfing is still growing or if its leveled off. I started power kiting 10 years ago and while it was expensive it was more affordable than it is today.

I was talking to a ski shop owner last year and said the average skier in the northeast holds on to a set of skis for 15 years and they price them with that user in mind. My foils are between 3 and 9 years old. I suppose kite makers may be realizing that kiters hold on to their gear longer and longer so they price new kites higher and higher. I tend to think that if the kites were more affordable I and others may turn our quivers over more often.

I got into kite skiing when my kids were born in order to spend more time at home and because it was more cost effective to buy a kite and ski a pond then buy a lift ticket every weekend or a season pass. Does seem like that argument holds up anymore. This kite is not for me at all and even if it were I'd never pay that kind of money for it. I hope those who do enjoy their purchase and I hope kite makers spend more time focused on the average kite user and not the niche or niche might be all the market becomes.

ssayre - 3-3-2015 at 07:48 PM

Don't forget, flysurfer also make one of the most affordable kites in the peak. I was happy to see a line of depowers ranging from 800-1100 versus almost all other brands brands depower kites.

Lynx isn't too bad either since they have a kite only option if you don't mind switching your bar around.

Feyd - 4-3-2015 at 06:03 AM

Kiting is still more affordable than lift access especially if you want to get out a lot.

There are plenty of kites on the market available with less performance and lower pricing than the Chrono or FR. Both of which seem to be priced in the range one would expect for these kites IMO. Theses are purpose built speed machines that demand some fairly good piloting skill to realize the performance they offer. It's a niche market with relatively low sales compared to say the Peaks or Access kites. As with most niche things they come at a high cost.

In the racing segment, I would say foils purchases are growing.

B-Roc - 4-3-2015 at 11:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Don't forget, flysurfer also make one of the most affordable kites in the peak. .

I totally forgot about that. With that in mind I retract much of what was written about failure to invest in the common kiter market place.

ssayre - 4-3-2015 at 02:30 PM

Born-Kite's approach is solely the average kiter. Very refreshing

Okay, back to the sonic-fr, who's getting one and when? Feyd? I still like to read posts about those kites even if I won't have one. :cool2:

skimtwashington - 4-3-2015 at 03:20 PM

I want to double what B-roc said. Nice looking kite- but almost 3 grand! This is crazy.. outrageous....I Think they....

What?....

..B-Roc retracted what he said? Ummm...
I want to retract what I said then.

I think kites for the 'common' kiter should start even lower.

I think Education, health care and kites should all be free! ..For a better world.

I'm not retractin' nuttin else here...Unless someone makes a valid point.

B-Roc - 4-3-2015 at 03:41 PM

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington

I want to double what B-roc said. Nice looking kite- but almost 3 grand! This is crazy.. outrageous....I Think they....

What?....

..B-Roc retracted what he said? Ummm...
I want to retract what I said then.

I'm only retracting what I said about failure to invest in a more common use kite (which the Peak is). I still think kites are becoming increasingly unaffordable. I'd love to upgrade my quiver but not at a cost of $3 - 5k when you get pennies on the resale dollar.

propylene22 - 7-3-2015 at 03:37 PM

I've heard the cost of kites compared to many other sports such as skiing or biking. Like you wouldn't bat an eye at spending 1500$ on a bike, but scoff at spending that amount on a kite. I think the thing that is not thought about in these comparisons is the longevity of a kite and the fact that you probably need 4+ kites depending on the wind. A bicycle can easily last 10 years or more with fairly limited maintenance. Not to mention the materials involved with a bike have to be significantly more costly than that of a kite. Now couple this with the fact that you probably have 4 or more kites and that with heavy use they only last a couple of years. Kites are to expensive.
my .002$

Feyd - 8-3-2015 at 02:23 AM

Expanding on the bike/kite comparison.

$1500 on a kite gets you a much better kite than $1500 gets you in bike technology.

R&D to developed that $1500 kite is miles ahead of what it takes to produce a $1500 bike.

Unless you just putter around, a $1500 bike will be hard pressed to last as long as a $1500 kite. Assuming you take care of your kites.

The bike market is no different today. To get into any "performance" level bike you have to drop at least $3500. And unlike kites, the more you pay for the bike, generally the less bombproof they tend to be as a side effect of being more precise and built up of components that are made to be lighter and of more exotic materials. Even when you drop $12000 on a high end Downhill bike or Road bike, most will find unless they have the skill set to warrant purchase of a bike like that, the bike will constantly be in need of maintenance and parts. We live in a world where just a rear derailer can run you $400.

Both industries are leaning more and more toward catering to the Dr./Lawyer income range imo. Which make for good business for the manufacturer as they can produce less and sell less but for more money. Look at the average age of most kiters. How many younger kiters are there? How many kids can afford it?

Kiiting is a niche sport. And niche sports with their limited market always come at a higher cost. I suspect is sales volume bikes outsell kites 500 to 1. This includes all bikes, kids and adult, low end to high. This allows for some lower pricing on the bike side to some level.

Kites like the FR are premium kits that come at a premium price. They are pricey but if you have the piloting skill to make use of the perfomance the kites can offer and have the need for that perfomance you'll likely cringe at the cost but also be willing to pay it because the rewards are well worth it.

The FR is a race rig, its target user demographic is in course racing and speed. Not really the demographic found in this, or most forums. Still, its a hell of a fun wing and worth mentioning and theorizing about.

TEDWESLEY - 8-3-2015 at 06:25 AM

Most sporting equipment is expensive because the users of that equipment demand high quality and the
latest technologies that will increase performance. There are always lower cost alternatives. Remember that last
season's wonderkite is still a great kite and will be available next season for pennies in the dollar as the leading edge change up to the latest advances. In high performance goods of any kind, once you are at a certain level
large increases in dollars only brings small, even tiny, increases in performance. Most of us are not at a level where this changes much for us.

ssayre - 8-3-2015 at 06:34 AM

Quote:

The bike market is no different today. To get into any "performance" level bike you have to drop at least $3500

Don't tell that to my $300 1993 gt mountain bike.:D It's had a pretty hard urban life riding down concrete steps and the like. Very bomb proof but I'm sure lacking performance.

Bladerunner - 8-3-2015 at 09:54 AM

I really think that all the kite companies are doing their best to dominate the newly expanding race scene on water and snow.

These 2 groups are a LOT bigger and have a lot more to gain by being #1. I suppose the investment is worth while to them. I suspect there are more people involved in serious racing on water and snow than the rest of us combined. I wonder when the market will be saturated. I see now F-one is getting into the race foil game . http://www.f-onekites.com/Team/FOIL/Rider/Maxime-NOCHER

I swear I saw a race foil with a North emblem on it a while ago?

I think a lot of folks will spend way too much money on a race foil hoping to be a better kiter when mastering the kites in their bag would actually do the job. Race foils are not for everybody. Certainly not for me. Low wind technology ...... that's different !

propylene22 - 8-3-2015 at 04:57 PM

I disagree on the 3500$ price point on a bike. I've built several rather bad ass 4X style MTB for much less than that.

rtz - 8-3-2015 at 08:34 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

saw a race foil with a North emblem on it a while ago?

It was an Elf kite the North team riders use until they have their own.

Feyd - 11-3-2015 at 07:44 AM

I've been lucky enough to get to play with one for a week.

It's a very nice kite and perfectly suited for it's purpose. The thing simply rips across the ice.

PHREERIDER - 11-3-2015 at 08:17 AM

steep speed no doubt ! lucky