Power Kite Forum

Light wind day...

SpecialK - 16-3-2015 at 10:25 AM

Finally got to go out for an hour or so this weekend! Had a great time even though it was relatively light winds.. Took the CH2 and the Speed 3. Here's a little video of it...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_zjN_iW8fVndHByNndGZVNiMVE...

The CH2 was underpowered.. If i had more skill I probably could have got going better on it, but I switched to the Speed and was doing much better. I do have problems going upwind with the 19.. it just pulls so hard.. Im not sure if I have bad technique, or bad setup (or both?)

Just thought I'd share!

rofer - 16-3-2015 at 10:42 AM

Jealous of both your big field and your big kite. Looks like you're making good use of a light wind day.

Demoknight - 16-3-2015 at 10:43 AM

When you are trying to go upwind, are you keeping the bar out, or pulling the bar in as you lean back? You may try to trim the depower line in a little to help you hold your ground depending on the winds. In my time flying my 19m deluxe (not much time yet) I had no problems cutting very far upwind, but I was flying 7-10mph with the line trimmed 3/4 of the way in. When I wanted to go downwind, I just let the depower strap all the way out and slammed the bar in and I was heading downwind easily. This was in a buggy though, so I definitely should be having an easier time holding more power than if I was on my board.

SpecialK - 16-3-2015 at 11:02 AM

I was trying to keep the lines tight by pulling in and standing while on the down swing, and then as I'm turning it back up, leaning back more and let the bar out. I don't think I had it trimmed right, I still don't have a feel for that, or know how to trim properly. I know I have an easier time on arcs going up wind, but on the speed, its always pulling me pretty hard. How should I be trimming/working the bar to go upwind? Cheers!

Demoknight - 16-3-2015 at 11:09 AM

It always varies based on your wind speeds, but it looked like the 19m just had you a little overpowered. You could probably solve that by trimming the depower line in a bit. I don't landboard, but when I am heading upwind, I typically rarely pull my bar in at all unless I need extra input for turning. The exception I have found on the 19m deluxe is that you are better off just reaching up and grabbing an arms length of brake line to get the quicker turns without pulling the whole bar in and stalling the wing.

SpecialK - 16-3-2015 at 11:48 AM

I think I was slightly overpowered when it was down in the power zone. I could probably keep it flying higher up and not feel that way. Maybe some more trim would be good. Interesting that you don't pull the bar in at all. Maybe I should try that.. it would probably keep it from slowing down so much.

At the end of the day I just don't have enough time to really maximize what I'm doing :D Wish I had more time to remedy that problem!

Demoknight - 16-3-2015 at 12:34 PM

I tend not to pull on the bar much with depowers unless I am well powered in the mid to high end of the wind range for that kite, or I am at speed with decent apparent wind. The exception is my Charger, because it just doesn't slow down all that much when you pull the bar in. The Speed slows down a ton, but if you have apparent wind, it also just doubles or triples the pull if you are moving. I found this useful when I was riding through my freezerburned ice cream beach a few weeks ago. If you end up coming to a stop though before it pulls you all the way through the slow patch, you have to wait for the big SOB to turn back up and come down again for a power stroke. Wouldn't be an issue at all with a steady 5mph+, but that day there were lots of shifty 0mph lulls. It is crazy how well these things float, even when they are obviously falling out of the sky. If the sun is out, they actually seem to have some thermal buoyancy because of the huge volume of air inside and the extra light material.

Bladerunner - 17-3-2015 at 04:24 AM

I haven't had a lot of time on my 19 but can totally relate to the being dragged down wind feeling. With my light weight I seem to achieve it on apparent wind alone? Even in my ( light ) buggy. I have found it interesting that others haven't talked about having trouble holding ground on apparent wind with the 19's.

Try trimming in a lot to get upwind. The kite will fly farther ahead in the window and create less pull. Doing so may mean that your turning is poor. To remedy that I reach out and grab extra brake with my hand to speed up the turn.

I only pull the bar all the way in to influence a turn unless I am pulling it in for a jump. I would have the kite trimmed out more if jumping was in order though.

I try to lean back and gain upwind on my power stroke pushing for upwind. Then get up on my toes and coast as I reset the kite for another stroke but that is an under powered strategy.

SpecialK - 17-3-2015 at 07:49 AM

Demo: I agree. It wants to float. On occasion i'll lose tension and it'll float down into the power zone and force me to pop the safety or get dragged. Maybe this is related to pulling the bar too much. Looking forward to getting back out and trying it with that knowledge in mind.

Blade: I dont think I have the same light weight problem at 180 lbs. :D

Since we're talking about trim. It still confuses me a little. It seems like the solution to all problems is more trim... If the wind is getting too strong, trim in.. if the wind is getting too light... trim in. Under what circumstances would we want to trim out?

Before this past weekend it'd been a while since I last kited. I REALLY want to get back out ASAP!

jy1zoom - 17-3-2015 at 10:38 AM

To reduce downwind pull from apparent wind reduce the camber by adjusting the mixer so that the B's and C's are slightly shorter than the factory equal length set up. The kite will initially be harder to launch and climb to the top of the window, and feel like it needs stronger wind to fly. This is not the same as pulling in the trim, as it changes the shape of the aerofoil. The trim adjusts the angle of attack. To reduce the camber move the mixer balls further from the pulley which shortens the respective bridle. Increased camber (B's and C's longer than factory), will slow the kite and generate inceased downwind pull once you start moving, but it will fly easy in gentle winds and under static conditions. Read about the mixer test or watch the video of Armin explaining the mixer.

Demoknight - 17-3-2015 at 11:36 AM

SpecialK you mostly want to trim out depending on your surface and whether you are jumping or not. The wing generates next to zero lift to me when trimmed in, even if I pull the bar in. It has a very large depower range. I think the perfect time to have the kite fully trimmed out is in steady 7-10mph winds when you will start to get benefit from its full power.

SpecialK - 17-3-2015 at 02:25 PM

jy: Every time it comes to the mixer my brain just melts. However I looked up that video and it actually made sense. Thanks! I might give that a try!

demo: Trim out for jumping I presume. So when you're getting going, do you keep it flying pretty high, or do you do fairly large dips into the power zone.

Thanks for the tips all!

jy1zoom - 17-3-2015 at 06:34 PM

Yes the mixer was a black hole for me until I made my own by putting a Pansh Sprint on one.

crazyherb - 17-3-2015 at 08:24 PM

I'm wondering if you were to keep the kite lower, if it would reduce the down-wind pull...at least give you better edging instead of lifting you off your edge...
Love light wind...now just need to get LOOPING....this is where I've found the LEI's to be superior in light wind...

You'll notice how low I keep my my kite when edging upwind:
https://vimeo.com/98305417

Even with LONG lines...I'm still only 15-20 degree angle while edging with the big 24M Phanny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTU46xiUwHc

BLADE - would love to test fly your Flysurfer for a spin next time your down this way...I'll let you try my 24M Phanny on 55M lines....hehe...(probably be flying same conditions)..

Keep at it SpecialK!!
KITE ON!!

RedSky - 17-3-2015 at 09:40 PM

Goofing off is fun. I had a few sweet jumps myself last weekend but I always feel like I might break a leg or twist an ankle or something. Not as supple as I once was...or brave.

SpecialK - 18-3-2015 at 11:17 AM

crazyherb: Sweet video! I'm jealous of having that kind of beach to play with. You really are keeping it low there. I would have thought that keeping it low would increase the pull, but it does make sense that keeping it low and forward would let you lean back into it a lot harder. To do that I imagine I'd want to stay off of pulling the bar in as well. I might have to try that next time..

regarding looping: I don't really do much/any looping with any of my kites to be honest. Thats particularly true of the 19 as it seems like it takes 25 years for that thing to turn and i'd be afraid of it slamming into the ground. Demo: do you loop it? I need some videos!!!

RedSky: Super fun. Luckily I'm still young/dumb enough that I don't feel too worried. That was only the second time I'd made it to that field (young kids make it hard to get out). The first time I had my Venom 1 and was jumping probably 5-10 ft high.. It was a blast, and the landings were super smooth. I wish I had that kind of wind under my CHII which hasn't had the chance to fly in that kind of wind for me yet. So long as I don't end up like flyguy I'll be happy with it :D

Bladerunner - 18-3-2015 at 03:19 PM

Quote: Originally posted by crazyherb  
I'm wondering if you were to keep the kite lower, if it would reduce the down-wind pull...at least give you better edging instead of lifting you off your edge...

BLADE - would love to test fly your Flysurfer for a spin next time your down this way...I'll let you try my 24M Phanny on 55M lines....hehe...(probably be flying same conditions)..

Keep at it SpecialK!!
KITE ON!!



I should be at SOBB for a few days. You are welcome to give the SA a go!

I was going to mention getting the kite lower but realized SpecialS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s park is kind of small for that. I find it kind of freaky getting a big kite down low in a small park. Low is better but higher will probably be the way to go in a small park.

P.S. If the wind is so low we need 55m lines I would rather borrow your motorized ATB ! ;)

Demoknight - 18-3-2015 at 04:49 PM

SpecialK yes I loop the 19. I don't think you can loop it easily straight from the bar unless you are fully trimmed out, which means you are pulling the bar in and turning with all you got, which means you are probably going up 10+ feet in the air first. When I have looped it, I just reach up and grab the stopper ball and you will be surprised how fast the thing actually does turn. Even in light wind, I can make it basically rotate on its central axis. It behaves just as well as my larger fixed bridles during heavy brake turns when I use the grab and pull method. Just be mindful of your height above ground when you start the turn, and make sure you commit to the turn so you don't balk and boof it.

You just gotta show it who is boss and MAKE the kite loop.

SpecialK - 23-3-2015 at 09:43 AM

I did some organizing this weekend.. Thought I'd share this! Also I got my new Trampa in and ready to ride (Thanks, Costal Wind Sports/Richard! :D )

crazyherb - 24-3-2015 at 01:03 AM

WAY too organized!! I have three kites out of there bags, boards, parts, pads, harness all scattered over garage as I type this...geeze...:P

SpecialK - 24-3-2015 at 07:41 AM

:D well its probably because you actually get out regularly to use your equipment. Mine seems to fly so rarely that it's worth it to put it away nice! :(

crazyherb - 24-3-2015 at 03:34 PM

LOL... Special...whaddya mean...shheeesshh...it's been since Saturday!! I'm "jonesing" already!!

Had a sweet little run with my new 18M Helium...aka "Session Saver"...never have I ridden water so smooth...butter butter...

ssayre - 24-3-2015 at 08:07 PM

Wall of fame special k. like it

Herb, I was thinking the same thing only I kited saturday and sunday. :D

RedSky - 25-3-2015 at 06:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by SpecialK  
I did some organizing this weekend.. Thought I'd share this! Also I got my new Trampa in and ready to ride (Thanks, Costal Wind Sports/Richard! :D )



Same here. You should have seen the mess before I reorganized.

SpecialK - 25-3-2015 at 07:34 AM

Herb: It's so not fair. I actually went out for a quick fly yesterday during lunch break... and then got quickly so bogged down in mud that it wasn't worth continuing. *cry*. Took me forever to get all the mud off the tires. :( At least I didn't crash the charger into the mud!

RedSky: The horror.. the horror!

ssayre - 25-3-2015 at 01:50 PM

That's awesome redsky!

RedSky - 25-3-2015 at 07:02 PM

Thanks. :D

PHREERIDER - 26-3-2015 at 05:42 AM

tidy stuff Special K...
redsky its ok man, i have a storage unit thats kinda like that at least its all bagged up but piled hi for sure...my truck is the rolling fun box i need access!, the sand, bearings and spark plugs in the back have been inches deep and reeks of ocean and low tide.... add couple stinking wetsuits in the cab"where all the good stuff is keep" ...daily not only looks rough...smells the same.




crazyherb - 26-3-2015 at 10:52 PM

Just noticed I had another comparison video of flying the kite lower...even compared to the buggy guys, I fly a bit lower angle in this video...
Unless, it was to clear traffic, or eek a little more power from a down-stroke...

https://youtu.be/EW0-smd5lr8

Speaking of organizing...anyone get to deal with these big old bastards (my non-wind toys)? This was two weekends ago project...the garage doesn't look like that right now...
14inch modified shelf brackets...worked out pretty good..