Power Kite Forum - Question about Nasa 3 3.2m

Question about Nasa 3 3.2m

dangerdan - 19-3-2015 at 11:26 AM

I decided to assemble the Nasa Star 3 3.2M kite today with the Z bridle and HQ handles. I only received the Nasa Star 2 instructions with this kite . I pulled out the 2 lines on either side for the brakes.
In the attached picture (see red circles) are those lines for the brakes ??

ssayre - 19-3-2015 at 12:15 PM

I think that's what they call the new servo lines on the 3. I don't think the 2 has those. On the 2 the only bridles that go to brakes are the bottom 2 sets of cascade bridles of the "air halfpipes" I'm not sure if those would be part of the brakes or not. I'll see what I can find out. You could also email steffen but it would probably be tomorrow before you heard back.

If I had to guess, I would say those bridles would go with the power lines and you would use the same bridles as the 2 for brakes, but I could be wrong about that. I know none of the outer bridles go to brakes.

dangerdan - 19-3-2015 at 12:19 PM

Email sent to Steffen.

Thanks

ssayre - 19-3-2015 at 12:24 PM

I just checked mine, it's the bottom 4 sets of bridles on the half pipes. I post a picture of my set up even though yours might be different.

ssayre - 19-3-2015 at 12:29 PM

FYI, I have tried them 4 line with and without the z bridle and I prefer without z bridle. You will still need to know how to split the bridle either way but be sure and try both methods and see which one you like better.

B-Roc - 19-3-2015 at 01:04 PM

Where is everyone getting these new NPWs? Are you all buying them overseas?

John Holgate - 19-3-2015 at 01:34 PM

Yep, directly from Steffen at www.born-kite.de

re: the extra bridles on the trailing edge - I'd try them included with the brakes, and without them and see what I preferred. (I haven't had the NS3 on handles yet).

B-Roc - 19-3-2015 at 01:56 PM

What is the difference between his NPWs and traditional NP5s and NPW9s? I must say all this NPW talk has piqued my interest in combing kiting with my skateboards.

What bar are you using with his kites?

ssayre - 19-3-2015 at 02:36 PM

The key difference is there is a line that attaches to the nose to fully depower the kite. This allows them to be flown 2 line on a bar with the convenience of having a safety to dump the kite on. There is a fair amount more to it, but that is the short version. Also, the air halfpipes stretches it out a bit and is suppose to improve performance. I haven't flown a normal so I have nothing to compare it to. There really isn't a need for 4 line control because they turn on a dime flown off 2 lines. I use them for everything, longboard, buggy, landboard. After today, my absolute favorite thing to do is use them on 5 meter lines on a bar, on a parking lot, on a longboard. I know you have a longboard, and I would give it a shot with your fb's. The cool thing about the nasa star's is frontside/toeside one handed transitions. Once mastered, it is a blast. It only took me 2 sessions to have it down, but I have logged a ton of time on the nasa's on both long and short line. Personally, Ive tried them on handles and the disadvantages outweigh any benefit of them versus a bar unless your only flying static. They are the most versatile kite I've flown.

B-Roc - 19-3-2015 at 02:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

After today, my absolute favorite thing to do is use them on 5 meter lines on a bar, on a parking lot, on a longboard. .

That's what has me interested. I have an old Flexi FB 4 line bar sitting around, I can make or buy short lines and I'd prefer to fly on a bar. Just don't know if its better to get a traditional NPW or Steffen's.

3shot - 19-3-2015 at 04:06 PM

Good info Sean!

B-Roc - 19-3-2015 at 07:13 PM

Can anyone help me understand the difference between his NST 3 Streetkite and NasaStar 3? Is it just the bar? I don't get it.

ssayre - 19-3-2015 at 07:28 PM

No difference in the kite at all. I don't know why he has them separate. It's just the bar. You can use the "3 line depower" bar for street kite as well. The streetkite bar is only intended for lines 10 meter and under.

dangerdan - 20-3-2015 at 06:08 AM

I got an Email back from Steffen. I never would have guessed at the brake setup for a NASA 3 on handles. See the attached picture.

Nasa Star 3 3.2m Handle setup.jpg - 82kB

B-Roc - 20-3-2015 at 06:16 AM

So if I had a 4 line configured NPW and put it on a traditional (not cross over) FB bar like the one below, where the rear/brake lines can slide through a pulley as the kite turns, would that be ok for these types of kites?

For those that may remember, it was the bar that came as on option for the 8.5 Blade III series so its probably 60-65cm long. If I'm flying a NPW on the bridles or on 5-15' of line, what size NPWs do you think I can pair with that bar?

Prussik - 20-3-2015 at 08:28 AM

It looks like NS3 has the brakes where they should be unlike NS2 which had them at A9-A12. This was one of the first things I changed in my NS2’s two years ago.

BTW, the function of the brakes is not only to provide quicker turns ( as implied elsewhere ) but provides options in ground handling, powered up jibing and general flight control unavailable with the bar. And the 5-th line provides depower function hooked in unlike hanging on the bar.

soliver - 20-3-2015 at 11:32 AM

Ok.. right thread now...

@B-Roc: I think whatever type of NPW or NASA Star kite you choose, if you are flying on a 4 line FB bar, you will likely have to have the kite in 4-line mode and use a Z bridle, which essentially makes the kite fly as thought it were in 2 line mode until you pull the brakes thereby activating only the brake bridling on the TE... John Holgate has a great thread somewhere where he added a Z bridle to one of the NS2s. I really understood what it was & how it worked after seeing that...

Darknessnam - 20-3-2015 at 02:54 PM

Hey Dangerdan, can you email me a copy of that graphic. I want to make sure I split my lines properly..you've got my email. Thanks man

John Holgate - 20-3-2015 at 03:30 PM

Quote:

where the rear/brake lines can slide through a pulley as the kite turns, would that be ok for these types of kites?

Rigged with the Z bridle, I think that would be ok. I used a four line bar setup without the Z bridle once and the wind pressure on the brake lines caused the kite to reverse while cruising along the beach at speed - nearly wrecked the lines and a tyre. With the Z bridle rigged and a little extra slack on the brake lines, it was fine.

As all the sizes pretty much turn on their wing tips, I don't think size is a problem. My 10m is absolutely fine on the bar - although I am using 20m lines. There's a video of Steffen flying a 10m on short lines in the snow in the review thread.

dangerdan - 22-3-2015 at 01:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by dangerdan

I got an Email back from Steffen. I never would have guessed at the brake setup for a NASA 3 on handles. See the attached picture.

I took the Nasa 3 out for a test spin on handles. It was a total disaster. It went straight up. First thing I noticed was the excessive slack in the brake Line. When the wind picked up the slack was gone. When I tried to turn it left, it went left, then it flew upside down. It had a mind of its own. One second it flew up then the next it flew down and from that point on there were no brakes or any type of control. I had to release both handle to get it down. I took it home and re-checked the lines. There were no twists in the line and it was assemble as per instructions. I'll try adjusting the knots on the Z bridle length (BRAKE) to within 5cm. Hopefully that will makes the brakes more responsive.
This thing flew like a drunken 3m Ladybug(insect variety) :lol:

I have no idea what happened and it was a little disappointing.
I'll try a few more ideas and if they don't pan out I may try it on a bar.

ssayre - 22-3-2015 at 02:01 PM

bummer dan, you can try it in 2 line mode without a bar. You should be able to take the brake lines off and it should fly fine with the leg of the z bridle dangling loose (unless this causes that leg to get tangled in the bridle). Or you could remove the z bridle completely and check if it flies in 2 line mode by only attaching 1 line to each handle. This will be the same as if it's on a bar. To land it, you just bring over the side of the window and stake that's side's handle only.

dangerdan - 22-3-2015 at 02:19 PM

Ok - I will give that a try

dangerdan - 22-3-2015 at 03:27 PM

I removed the Z bridle which gave me better control, but the brake were a beast to apply on handles. Once the weather gets warmer and I can get a ground stake in the ground I will try to adjust the brakes with this setup and will also set it up as a 4 liner using the 2 power lines and running 2 brake lines to the top centre of the kite .
I need to take another look at John's video using handles.

cheers

dangerdan - 22-3-2015 at 03:35 PM

I checked John's video again, he mentioned that the kite was flapping with a longer Z bridle, well that's exactly what mine is doing.
So the brake line for the Z bridle only needs to be 1-2 cm longer.
Will try that tomorrow.

John Holgate - 23-3-2015 at 02:04 AM

Quote:

he mentioned that the kite was flapping with a longer Z bridle

I did?? don't think I've had any problems with the length of the Z's.

If you're flying in non-z 4 line mode, it will get flappy if you don't have enough brakes applied. Too much brake and it flies backwards.

dangerdan - 23-3-2015 at 09:59 AM

I stand corrected John.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2QWrsXTn-M&feature=play...

See link at 1:40 - "If I didn't put enough tension on the brakes it would start to get a bit flappy".

I was desperate to get this kite flying and just skimmed thru that video.

Lets see if today gets any better, I will leave here in 15 minutes to try another setup.

sadsack - 23-3-2015 at 10:27 AM

here is some more stuff on zbridles

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=29242&p...

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=29696

I have used z bridles on alot of my NPW 5, 9b. It ta a while to adjust, but they do fly very good then on 2 or 4 lines or handles or bar.:alien:

dangerdan - 23-3-2015 at 11:30 AM

I took the Nasa 3 out for another spin and it flew like a charm.
The key is in the Z bridle. :smilegrin:

Thanks John. :thumbup:

The Yellow brake line in the Z bridle should only be 1 inch longer than the Z bridle power line. I also used 2 more line for the brakes that's similar to the Nasa 2 .

John Holgate - 23-3-2015 at 01:27 PM

Glad you got it sorted. One thing I have noticed when splitting the bridles into several groups - a very small change can make a big difference to how it flies.

dangerdan - 24-3-2015 at 10:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate

Quote:

where the rear/brake lines can slide through a pulley as the kite turns, would that be ok for these types of kites?

Rigged with the Z bridle, I think that would be ok. I used a four line bar setup without the Z bridle once and the wind pressure on the brake lines caused the kite to reverse while cruising along the beach at speed - nearly wrecked the lines and a tyre. With the Z bridle rigged and a little extra slack on the brake lines, it was fine.

As all the sizes pretty much turn on their wing tips, I don't think size is a problem. My 10m is absolutely fine on the bar - although I am using 20m lines. There's a video of Steffen flying a 10m on short lines in the snow in the review thread.

John I took the Nasa 3 up today for about 1 hour and I'm having the same issue with the kite reversing. Do I make the adjustment on the Yellow Z bridle or do I make the adjustment at the handles.

John Holgate - 24-3-2015 at 01:44 PM

Either way should have the same effect, but you only really need to worry if it reverses while in forward motion with tension on the lines. If you try and hold it steady in light winds, it will often start to reverse - that's just the design/AOA of the kite and why it can reverse launch in two line mode. It's not a problem when you're in motion unless you turn too much towards the kite and stall it but even then, a quick backwards loop sorts it pretty quick.

If it continues to be a problem, and you still have a little slack on the brake lines, then make the diagonal part of the Z bridle a tad longer (a tad is roughly equivalent to 3.75mm) (humor)! Too much and you get back into 'flappy' mode.

It's sort of the opposite problem to high aspect kites - try and hold them at the edge of the window without a little brake and they'll just overfly. The Nasa's will sit overhead very nicely if you've got some breeze but if you get a lull then yeah, they can go into reverse.

dangerdan - 24-3-2015 at 05:07 PM

Thanks John

Prussik - 24-3-2015 at 05:51 PM

The tendency to backfly was pretty obvious when I first flew my NS2’s way back then. Even though it manifests itself primarily when underpowered I do not consider this problem to be entirely benign since this very tendency is the main (along with too steep AOA) cause of narrowing the window. The solution is, of course, less TE pull. Too much TE pull is there likely for the benefit of bar users but is detrimental to performance and unnecessary for handles.