Power Kite Forum - New Peak 2 tuning out tip tuck thanks Feyd and updates

New Peak 2 tuning out tip tuck thanks Feyd and updates

FrontRangeJeff - 1-4-2015 at 03:15 PM

On a previous post under kite reviews regarding the Peak1 vs 2 started by Proletariat (Dave) Feyd weighed in on an annoyance Dave and I noticed while flying my new Peak 2 12 and Dave's Peak 1 9 meter...dealing with tip tucking on my 12.

Feyd gave some tuning tips to shorten the B's as well as possibly shortening C11 bridles on the tips just a touch if needed.....well today I got to my local park and shortened just my B's a bit (hard to say...maybe about an inch on each side only) and presto totally took care of the tucking! The brief period I had any wind was quite wicked. Dave - seems to be MUCH more responsive now - more in line with your 9 and easier to loop.

A case could be made for this adjustment being required on a brand new kite is bogus but it was a simple fix...one that I would never have attempted if not for Feyd - so thanks and all the more reason why this forum is so damned helpful!!

skimtwashington - 1-4-2015 at 03:40 PM

Don't know if it's already happened from any source, but this info should go to Flysurfer.

I don't know- if as often happens- that a company's pride will get in the way for them to have humility to say ,'..thanks, you're right...we could have designed it better'..... but they will probably acknowledge the flaw more fully in private.....and relish the mod fix........ so perhaps the new Peak III(?) may be improved due to proper OBJECTIVE testing from folks on here , and from the mods of Chris K, ...

Easy fix though... but best if right from the start-as was suggested- right from the 'factory'.

B-Roc - 1-4-2015 at 05:08 PM

Does the peak not have a tuneable mixer or WAC line to adjust the B / C lengths? That was one of the things I found both good and bad about FS (good that you can tune it bad that they seem to need so much tuning compared to a frenzy, Montana, etc.).

FrontRangeJeff - 1-4-2015 at 05:17 PM

The B line is super easy to adjust length at the kite - a matter of getting a small amount of line free then simply moving a metal ring upwards (shortening the single length section and lengthening the doubled line). Can do a "mixer test" and adjustments on the Peak similar to other FS so very much the same. Yeah cool to have the adjustability but also a draw back.

I'll snap a photo next time I'm out.

My FS Unity has never had an issue and it is weird to have a problem out of the bag but it is a great addition to my quiver. Fair assessment with so much tuning not encountered on other offerings though.

Cheddarhead - 1-4-2015 at 06:57 PM

Very interested to see how my 12m Peak 2 is going to fly right out of the bag. It had one owner before me but nothing was said if any tweaking was done. I highly doubt it but one will never know until you get it in the air. I just got this kite a couple weeks ago but haven't flown it simply because it's been so muddy here. Maiden voyage might be this weekend. The ground is really soft right now and hasn't had much chance to dry out. Been dying to get in the bug with this kite!

FrontRangeJeff - 2-4-2015 at 12:33 PM

Hey Cheddarhead,

Hope you do get to buggy it up! Soggy ground is no fun...especially if the wind is blowing and it has been a while.

It seems to me that the tip tucking severity might be a case by case basis from zero to serious? I have no specific facts on which to base this but every time I flew mine it seemed to be slightly better....although honestly I was also getting better at dealing with it by keeping the ideal bar pressure....

I took some video kiting my 12 that would have instantly shown the symptoms but my gopro was WAY out of focus. It is something though that you'd notice absolutely right away; mine wasn't all the time but rather in light wind in varying degrees.

At the worst to me it felt and looked almost identical to paragliding pulling "Big ears". Both tips fold significantly towards the center-just as seen in this video about 30 seconds in. Except in paragliding they're used as a pilot initiated descent technique and on my Peak they'd show up and I'd be absolutely pissed.:D. Crazy that a small tweak to the b's is all it took to rid the stuff. In strong enough winds they didn't happen much but I bought this beast as my light wind kite so I was scratching my head trying to rationalize it as normal...nope.

FrontRangeJeff - 17-4-2015 at 07:55 AM

So an update with my new 12 meter Peak 2 if anyone was/is curious....

Shortening my b mixers a decent amount took out a majority of my wingtip tucking issue but it was still happening here and there. I put one wrap (shortened) C-11 bridles on each wingtip and waited for a day with wind to test the results to see if it took out all of the remaining tucking....made things WAY worse. This issue is really kind of beyond annoying. When this occurs the controllability of the kite plummets....sometimes its a single wingtip sometimes both. Until I get this resolved I don't trust this BRAND NEW kite at all for land boarding as I near any edge of my local field.

ssayre - 17-4-2015 at 10:29 AM

My peak 1 6 meter will start to flap as soon as I let the bar out but I assumed that's what it's suppose to do. Does yours flap all the time? Here is a video of me flying static in very light wind. Does your flapping seem worse than mine?

FrontRangeJeff - 17-4-2015 at 10:48 AM

Hey Ssayre,

the flapping is totally normal for the Peak - I guess its how the depow actually presents itself on the single skin. What I'm talking about is full on wingtip collapsing like shown in the above paragliding video!

I have some decent footage of my Peak 2 from Wednesdays disappointing test I'll post sometime today-because it shows exactly what is going on. Over multiple passes past my gopro going the exact same direction on my land board in basically the same wind several times in a row it will be fine....then several other times it will just decide to drop a wingtip or both and I'll have to pump the bar like mad to get "pressure" back into the tips or I'll have to wait or fly it crazy in a loop...no single guaranteed "reboot" as far as I can tell (as best I can describe). In the meantime here is a pic I snagged and put annotations on.

Jeff

ssayre - 17-4-2015 at 10:56 AM

I see now, that is very different from what I've experienced. Makes me wonder if it's something about the peak 2 design or if it has more to do with the 12 meter size pushing the limits of what is possible with the fundamental design. I wonder if the other sizes experience this or just the 12. If it's brand new, I would check with fs. Looks like maybe a warranted issue?

Feyd - 17-4-2015 at 06:17 PM

Ssayre, what bar setting do you have your bar set? Freerace or Tour?

ssayre - 17-4-2015 at 06:56 PM

No trim. I think that's the tour position. If your asking because I had said mine starts to flap as soon as I let the bar out, I may have exaggerated that a little bit. It probably doesn't start to flap until I'm close to halfway. I'll have to pay attention next time I'm out. The last few times I've used it was in pretty high wind so I probably didn't pull the bar in much past halfway. I'm looking forward to using it again. I just replaced a bridle leg that has had me out of commission the last couple of weeks.

FrontRangeJeff - 21-4-2015 at 06:31 AM

Mine will flap pretty much constantly unless I'm bar in most the way - which to me is exactly as it should be? With mine it seems the centers can actually be a bit longer-I'm almost never pulling any sort of trim and even with that it seems the backs are a touch long (almost always deep on the bar aside from a few exciting moments Sunday)

Also on a tuning update note - I restored my kite to just the tweaks to the B mixer Feyd originally recommended and I've got to say - my kite is mostly fine. I have an occasional wingtip tuck here or there and maybe once or twice a session I'll get both but nothing like last week after the C11 try. After last week I was pretty down on the kite but with a good session Sunday I think it will be a good addition to my quiver (my 2 cents anyway)

Jeff

TEDWESLEY - 21-4-2015 at 06:36 PM

I've seen the tip tuck with my 12m as well, but it wasn't severe. The winds I've flown the kite in so far
have been nearly nonexistent to 7mph so it didn't seem too bad at the time. I'll be making the mod to see what happens. I've been very happy with the kite so far as it had me riding in winds that I didn't have a hope of using
with out it.
Ssayer, have you tried the mod for the 6m on the hardwater site? Real simple and changes the bar position in intervals.

ssayre - 21-4-2015 at 06:53 PM

No I haven't but I've been meaning to.

Cheddarhead - 22-4-2015 at 09:36 AM

I'm still waiting to use my 12m peak2. I've been out twice with the buggy since it's dried up here, but winds have been way to strong to use the 12. Not that I'm complaining :cool:

Winds have been fantastic here as of late. Fingers crossed that tomorrow is the day:D

Cheddarhead - 2-5-2015 at 06:10 PM

Finally had a chance to buggy with my 12m Peak 2. I also had some issues with tip tuck/curl in light wind. Most noticeable when the wind would die and kite was positioned cross wind or up wind. When fully powered and with the bar in half way or more I had no issues with the tips tucking. I made no adjustments to the "B" bridle yet, but need more info before I start adjusting things. A few times the tip tuck was so bad that it made the kite unsteerable. I made a short video to illustrate the issue. No sound but you'll get the point. First half of vid has minor tip curl but end of vid is what the fuss is about. Enjoy:D

https://youtu.be/PHmfyE7lpvA

TEDWESLEY - 3-5-2015 at 06:37 AM

I've found that when I get a single tip curl that pointing that side of the bar at the kite for an instant will cure the
problem. Some times in a gybe the (usually) lower wingtip will have the problem which the pointing or relief of pressure on the tip will take care of. I'll be using the B-line mod today if the wind forecast is correct. I rode the kite yesterday at Jekyll in 5-10 and had great time. With the 6m and 12m together, it's damn near a two kite quiver... I
hope my Reactor's aren't reading this.

FrontRangeJeff - 4-5-2015 at 08:55 AM

Oh my word Cheddar! Watched your video and I felt like you were flying MY kite! The symptoms are / were identical. I'd say do try just the b's first given your kite "looks" like mine.

So to recap for me shortening just the B-s took out 90+% of my issues. It was so irritating and difficult originally since steer-ability goes straight to the crapper. Nothing like trying to sort out a collapsed wing while on a landboard headed for the edge of the field...buggy would be even tougher for me since its harder to stop/bail

My b alone was ok but I did a single wrap on each C11s just to see the outcome. I had perfect wind to test it and it was horrifying. It was worse then it ever was and I was absolutely seeing red.

I've since undone that adjustment and am just going to leave my b-fix in place for a while. I had several email responses regarding my kite to put wraps on additional spots....for me I'm not going to do that. When I reverted back to just my b fix it was acceptable but not perfect.

Here is a video of the worst of mine with the C11 wraps on each side. There is a text intro but gets straight to clips.

I should in fairness make an updated one with the b fix in place since I generally think the kite is pretty good now but still pretty silly stuff to deal with

grigorib - 4-5-2015 at 09:08 AM

Folks, Flysurfer is a mature company which values customer feedback and with aggregate expertise of experienced riders the feedback is always appreciated. Let me point them to the thread.

PHREERIDER - 4-5-2015 at 11:32 AM

thats alot of flap , definitely needs a solution.

very interested in PEAK 1/2 , may get one , how is power ? 9 v. 12 and as related to foil of same size ?

the 9 seems to have alot of range ..and power?

been thinking about this....the shape is topside tension dependent(partially)so maybe front mains are fraction too short ?...its a guess , with the idea that airspeed across LE is not there or not meet with enough drag to keep it there...

it seemed worse on one side or i couldn't see it.

just and idea on what i see... no doubt FS should be totally in on this. product design and ASSEMBLY. so prolly an error in there somewhere. keep us updated

Cheddarhead - 4-5-2015 at 11:40 AM

Thanks for posting Jeff :thumbup:

I agree, not really acceptable for a new kite to fly this way. Is this a problem only for the 12 meter or does the whole range of sizes experience this? Perhaps 12m is too long for this particular kind of kite and is pushing the design limits. This is my first Peak2 or any Peak for that matter. If I didn't know any better and was a first time kite owner this would most likely put me off from the sport of traction kiting. I've owned many kites and many diff brands so I realize this is just one instance of one kite in a new line of kites in a company with a great track record. Would be very interested to hear what Flysurfer has to say on the subject.

ssayre - 4-5-2015 at 11:41 AM

In my limited experience, I think a peak 6 and 9 combo would make it possible to kite all of my usable wind in my area. The peak 1 6 meter starts to come into power at 12 and goes to low 20's at least with my comfort level. I'm guessing a 9 meter would get me that 9-12 mph wind range and up to high teens.

I'm talking buggy on grass. a 6 or 9 on hard pack would probably be very close to a one kite quiver

Cheddarhead - 4-5-2015 at 11:51 AM

A 6/9 or 6/12 combo would work well here as well. ssayre you sound as if you have similiar winds as us. I picked up a 12 peak 2 simply because it was for sale on this forum at the time. I'm a heavier rider so it would suit me as well as the 9 would. I demoed a 9 this past winter and really loved it. Don't know if it had any tweaks to it, perhaps Feyd could chime in on that since he is the one that let me ride it. It flew solid as a rock and worked just as advertised. Wish my 12 would fly that well

ssayre - 4-5-2015 at 11:54 AM

Was it a peak 1 or 2 9m that you demo? FYI, I emailed flysurfer a question on my kite and they responded the next day. You might shoot them an email??

Cheddarhead - 4-5-2015 at 01:44 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Was it a peak 1 or 2 9m that you demo? FYI, I emailed flysurfer a question on my kite and they responded the next day. You might shoot them an email??

It was a 9m Peak2. Chris Krug and his other half Molly met us at the Mille Lacs kite crossing in Minnesota back in march. They brought a few demos for others to try. He never did say if there were any mods done to it.

FrontRangeJeff - 4-5-2015 at 07:06 PM

grigorib - Flysurfer is aware of my kite situation already and have been very responsive in a multitude of ways. Several techs and others at Fly watched my video and chimed in with recommended adjustments....wraps on C11/C10/shortening of Bs. They've been great about it including offers to take my kite and tune. At this point I'm not ready to ship it out of here until it dries out enough so I can take another day with it....because just shortening the b mixers mostly worked fine so far.

So to say they are a mature company wanting to hear of problems and want to help absolutely. But facts are mine was straight out of the bag basically what I'd consider defective. A vast number of us on here are all reporting the same scenarios....with all seeming to be 12 meters. Given the quick responses with specifics from Fly its pretty obvious that they are aware that many of us are encountering these problems and I've been honest about letting them know of the forum posts via email.

I couldn't agree more with Chedderhead-totally got the sense that this is pushing the design envelope. I was told that the tolerances on all the bridling is really tight...well if a single wrap of a line around the tiny connection point makes that big a difference then it doesn't bode well for any sort of tiny stretching down the road. I too felt that if this was my first ever power kite I would have been so sketched out and annoyed I would have probably would have not pursued the sport.

I have a Unity and have flown other Flys - so I'm not bashing the brand as a whole but am just trying to update anyone else with a similar issue with what has and hasn't worked for my specific kite.

Cheddarhead - 12-5-2015 at 03:10 PM

I took my 12m out again today after shortening the main "B" lines and it flew like total GARBAGE! I shortened them one inch each and it made it almost unflyable the ends tucked and folded so bad. I put them back to where they were and it flew a little better but still like the original poop it was. I actually lengthened them a little from where they originally were and it still flew like crap. I'm getting very frustrated to say the least. Jeff, who was your contact with Flysurfer? I want to send it in to have them tune it for me and see if they can "Fix" it. So far I'm really regretting selling my Frenzy and replacing it with this:evil: I feel like I got rid of a Ferrari and replaced it with a Ford Escort. :mad:

ssayre - 12-5-2015 at 05:42 PM

I would Kontakt

them and give them the opportunity to repair the kite even though it means not having it for awhile. I would doubt that they would send back a kite that isn't functional and every day you tinker is a day lost. Just a thought.

FrontRangeJeff - 12-5-2015 at 07:21 PM

hey Chedderhead,
Damn! Sorry to hear yours was worse with the Bs.....which is Bs!!

This sort of gives another data point to support a theory that these 12 meters are individually out of spec in different ways.....c11 was junk on mine....Bs helped a lot. Bs made yours sketchy either shorter or longer.

I have a slew of email addresses - I started with the info email address on flysurfer with a detailed account and I also got pings via the comments of my angry video of my C11 results.

From what I can gather best bet will be to start with

reinhartDOTpaelinckATskywalkDOTorg

sorry for the cryptic but figured I'd make spammers work for it

as for my kite I haven't decided what to do with it but I'm right there with you - it is not a very lovable kite right now for sure...mine is ok with the Bs for now but I need more time to be sure

Cheddarhead - 12-5-2015 at 08:05 PM

I have an email out to John at Powerzone. Going to see if he want's to take a crack at it. I have this weekend off so I'm sure I'll be tempted to try some more tweaking. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

bigE123 - 13-5-2015 at 02:14 AM

Seeing the Peak2 12m wing tip collapse is exactly what I had on my own build when I put de-power on to my 12m. If I fly it as a fb there is no collapse at all, once on de-power again I needed much more wind (which I expected) and cleaner wind, I sorted mine with a bridle tweak and limiting the lower AoA side of the de-power. In addition I now also use a good old NPW trick of a Z-bridle hybrid which prevents the brakes fully releasing at the kite end and pretty much eliminates the "floppy bunny ear" syndrome. Due to losing the real low wind end I now have the ability to switch between bar / de-power to fb on handles giving me low end with no issues.

FrontRangeJeff - 13-5-2015 at 03:34 AM

BigE123 - good to know this might be a similar situation. Totally irritating but hopefully solvable without losing real low end though because this is the only reason/use I have for this kite.....

Chedd - I sent you a U2U with my email address - I'll send you a reply including my entire chain with FlySurfer along with the chime ins of various techs at Fly.

Jeff

Cheddarhead - 13-5-2015 at 01:55 PM

This is what John from PowerZone had to say:

"Sure thing, I can tune er up for ya. One last thing you can try on your own (if you want) is to adjust B and C proportionally not separate measurements. So if you make Cmain 2cm shorter than Amain…. Adjust Bmain to half of the distance or 1cm. see if that improves the flight first then we can discuss a tune up"

Wow, were talking some pretty small tweaks here. I shortened my B's by one inch!! No wonder it flew like S**t after that big of an adjustment. I'll continue to play with the bridle in the meantime but alot of this is out of my scope of knowledge. I'm just learning as I go along...:duh:

FrontRangeJeff - 15-5-2015 at 04:03 PM

Hey Cheddarhead and all,

So Proletariat and I both surmised a while back that both our Peak2 12's could totally benefit from a bit more length on the front lines....basically we were both always flying with the centers fully extended and flying way deep in the bar...and the backs still seemed long to us.

We both also figured that with some more length on the centers the kite would be more "loaded" all the time with easier ability to flare the backs/and backstall the kite.

I bought some universal pigtails and put one on each front today. I flew the kite first without them and was swearing at the wingtip crap the entire time. Landed it - put the couple extra inches on the fronts and holy crap what an improvement. 1) It instantly solved all my remaining tip issues. 2) turned quicker since the backlines could be made effectively much shorter 3) actually allowed me to use the trim to fine tune the bar to my preference-still was barely backstalling which makes me think I could use another inch/

I realize that this will remove some of the top of the wind range but I absolutely don't care about that-in stronger winds I'm going with my 9 LEI anyway.

To anyone dealing with Peak2 issues - might want to try pigtails on the fronts!!

I used these...

http://www.adventurekiteboarding.com/usa-made-universal-pigt...

Jeff

jadog - 16-5-2015 at 05:42 AM

I just wanted to let you all know that I have the 9M Peak 2 and have the same issue with it. I haven't tried any of the tuning tips from this thread yet, but I'll keep you posted. Also planning on placing some pigtails on the front lines.

Cheddarhead - 16-5-2015 at 12:27 PM

Just dropped mine off at FedEx, it's heading to PowerZone for a tune. I'll keep you guys updated when I get it back. Fingers crossed.

Feyd - 20-5-2015 at 09:00 AM

Interesting. I spoke to Rheinart about the tuning tip from Powerzone. Was news to him. Doesn't mean that it won't work, just that he hasn't recommended it or needed it. As we've seen with Peter Lynns sometimes the users come up with solutions faster than the designers.

So given this sudden interest in adding pigtails to the PK2 and seeing the result one could argue that the PK2, if flown in heavy depow, is inherently unstable in most cases especially if flown in unstable winds. And as we were doing with the PK1, the addition of pigtails reduces some of the flutter and instability and the cost of some of the depower.

On the Peak one there was a considerable increase in low end power with what many would consider acceptable loss of depow. I haven't had a need to add pigtails to the PK2 and for the kites that seem problematic that I've altered the tuning tips have been effective. But have those of you who have added pigtails noticed a considerable power increase like is seen on the PK1? Or are we dealing with a situation where FS has designed so deep into the depower range that it is too much depower and the result is instability when flown in depower?

The 9m HWK demo that Cheddar flew at Mille Lacs was tuned by myself about 2cm. It wasn't unstable unless the winds were really shifty but I opted to see if it would be better and it seemed to be. The winds all Mille Lacs however are damn smooth compared to most places I fly. I made some small alterations to our 4m which I'm using for street riding. And I set up the bar for a little Xtra backstall, much like adding pigtails to the front lines. Here's a link to the video of the static flight test. Small park, surrounded by lots of windshadows and rotor producers. Winds shifting from W/NW to E/NE (as you can see by the flag behind me). Kite seems to be behaving quite well. But I'll let you judge.

https://youtu.be/NvnPUbyPMuo

FrontRangeJeff - 20-5-2015 at 12:51 PM

I added the pigtails because to me my kite was indeed out of the bag beyond just excessively depowed. No wind ever was I remotely pulling any sort of trim. Sort of rationalized that overly slack back lines and thus complete lack of tension in the wingtips at almost all times was causing a lot of my tip collapsing issues and frankly really poor performance.

Even deep into bar the backs had more then what is reasonable slack. (would have to reach WAY up the backs to get any sort of tension to make an impact to flight characteristics)

So I figured being quasi-desperate quasi curious I through on the pigtails and WHAMO. Does have WAY more power at the expense of surely some top of the wind range but it can still flap like crazy when sheeting out in gusts with little to no pull (I've flown in high teens low 20's gusts no prob so far). This is with pulling the trim maybe 1/3. The kite flies to me anyway as it actually should right now. I added several inches via the pigtails I originally posted.

If it ever dries out here I'll post a follow up vid. Another benefit is that the kite turns and loops much quicker.

Feyd - 20-5-2015 at 05:27 PM

I agree with your theory and it makes sense. Was just curious.

3shot - 20-5-2015 at 05:54 PM

So it looks like a gamble out of the bag new, it may or may not have the wingtip collapsing issue? Has anyone had one new (pk2) that didnt have this issue? I "might" be entertaining the idea of a 6m.

PHREERIDER - 20-5-2015 at 06:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by FrontRangeJeff

Hey Cheddarhead and all,

So Proletariat and I both surmised a while back that both our Peak2 12's could totally benefit from a bit more length on the front lines....basically we were both always flying with the centers fully extended and flying way deep in the bar...and the backs still seemed long to us.

We both also figured that with some more length on the centers the kite would be more "loaded" all the time with easier ability to flare the backs/and backstall the kite.

I bought some universal pigtails and put one on each front today. I flew the kite first without them and was swearing at the wingtip crap the entire time. Landed it - put the couple extra inches on the fronts and holy crap what an improvement. 1) It instantly solved all my remaining tip issues. 2) turned quicker since the backlines could be made effectively much shorter 3) actually allowed me to use the trim to fine tune the bar to my preference-still was barely backstalling which makes me think I could use another inch/

I realize that this will remove some of the top of the wind range but I absolutely don't care about that-in stronger winds I'm going with my 9 LEI anyway.

To anyone dealing with Peak2 issues - might want to try pigtails on the fronts!!

I used these...

http://www.adventurekiteboarding.com/usa-made-universal-pigt...

Jeff

good stuff! way to own it ! not just knowlegde, understanding what you know!, gotta love that!

Feyd - 21-5-2015 at 03:27 AM

Might I suggest adjusting the leader under the floats as opposed to the hassle of making or added expense of purchasing pigtails. Those adjustment knots aren't stitched. You can move them about and really fine tune these things.

FrontRangeJeff - 21-5-2015 at 04:54 AM

Would be a great option Feyd!

For me I added almost 5" to the fronts....so would just need to find something to do with the excess under the floats.

I wanted universal pigs anyway so I can more easily swap my bars to kites (LEIs) so nothing lost for me but your certainly right

Cheddarhead - 29-5-2015 at 11:41 AM

John from Powerzone finally had a chance to fly and adjust my Peak. He tinkered with it for a couple hrs but he said he couldn't get all the tip tucking out of it despite all the adjustments he made. He said there would be no charge for tuning simply because he couldn't accomplish what he wanted with the kite. What a nice guy!!! :thumbup:

It's getting shipped back to me as I type this. According to what I'm hearing I'll add a little length to the front lines and see if that might get rid of the remaining tuck altogether. It's been a while since I've seen my peak, I miss it already

TEDWESLEY - 29-5-2015 at 03:49 PM

Love this thread. I've got some pig tails and will experiment on my 12m. It has had few issues with tip tuck, but
when it happens it is annoying. I'm not too concerned about the high end either. Way before the 12 becomes overpowered, the 6m is pulling like champ.

The tuning tips are great, keep "em coming!

ssayre - 31-5-2015 at 05:42 AM

Another unorthodox approach to test how balancing the brakes and power lines affects flight characteristics is to fly it on handles. I've learned a lot more about what the kite can do or won't do by using handles. I've been using 5 meter lines and 20 meter lines and I've recently been hooking in with a strop. It makes things much more interesting and simple in my opinion. I don't have a safety but I haven't needed one in the 10-20 mph zone. I'm still experimenting, but I do notice my tips will collapse if I depower it past what it normally depowers on the bar. Eliminating the bar simplifies testing its raw capabilities without the limitations of the bar. Brings all back to basics

I think I might even prefer handles over bar at this point. Still early though.

Edit: I leave my lines on the bar and use another set with handles so it is easy to switch.

FrontRangeJeff - 1-6-2015 at 08:02 AM

Chedderhead - at least it sounds like John got out a decent amount hopefully. And totally right - super nice to spend all the effort! That is awesome.

I can say that I've had a few more days with mine and I officially LOVE the outcome of putting my pigtails on the fronts. Much more low end and I'm no longer encountering any of the more then annoying tip issues. I was waiting to stamp mine as "fixed" until I had a few more sessions. I'm completely with Ted - anything near approaching upper limit of the 12 anyway and I'm on a different kite

so I'm good with it.

ssayre - I wouldn't have thought of that at all. Although I really only fly hooked in on a harness and wouldn't want the variation from my water setups but I'd imagine that would be a great way to widen the ratios possible over a bar.

Windstruck - 21-7-2015 at 03:30 PM

GREAT THREAD! My 12m P2 has become my favorite buggy engine. I get less tip tuck then I used to (maybe improved piloting skill?). I also moved the knots up one spot under the floaters which may also have helped. I just ordered a pigtail set from Chris at Hardwater (I got my kite from him) and am excited to try the center line lengthening described here.

Like others, I'm not concerned if this robs a little top wind range. This is my LOW WIND master. If it starts to howl I'll be pulling other kites out of my quiver anyway.

Thanks all for such great insight. This is one of the most useful threads I've read in a while. :thumbup: