Power Kite Forum - yakuza with a bar , anybody experienced it ?

yakuza with a bar , anybody experienced it ?

early bird2 - 4-4-2015 at 05:39 AM

Hi ! I recently bought a quiver of ozone yakuza . they came with handles but I'd like to switch them to bar . I already have a few ozone's bars. So I wondered if anyone have already experienced it and if so , what was the best setting found?
Thanks.

B-Roc - 4-4-2015 at 06:28 AM

If you've already got the kite and bars why not just go out and figure it out. Start on the default knot and adjust the brake leader to your liking. Its as simple as that. It's a full on race kite so my guess is there aren't a whole lot of kiters who have put it on a bar but that doesn't mean you can't. How clean is your wind?

early bird2 - 4-4-2015 at 10:02 AM

Thanks for the reply .
I have tried one time in very light Wind on a bar and the kite would not fly , then I switched to the handles and it flew .
That was on one of my ozone flows bar no depower , I understand now that I had to shorten the front lines but since the Wind was so light maybe it would not fly anyway.
I will have to experiment with différents settings. I rode the 10 meters twice with handles so far and I was amased at how this kite could fly in such a light breeze , but I'm used to 4 ozones flows and 2 mantas on bars and also all my water's kite are . I like to ride with on hand free , I use these kites for kite-ski only . Honestly I did not have steady Wind enough to feell like to experiment differents settings on a bar. I bought these yakuza two weeks ago and the Wind has been very strong and gusty most of the time.The Ozone flows and Mantas can take quite alot of Wind fluctuation but the yakuza scares me a little . So I thought that may be someone had already gone throw this process and I could save some time .

RedSky - 4-4-2015 at 10:37 AM

Hi early bird2, welcome to PKF by the way. It sounds to me like you expect the bar to help you with gusty wind. You are aware that the Yak cannot be depowered just by the use of a bar ? You called the power lines front lines which made me think you are coming from a kitesurfing background ?

early bird2 - 4-4-2015 at 12:04 PM

Hi RedSky ! Thanks for the welcome.

I don't think the bar will help in gusty Wind ( don't think the yakuza were meant for gusty Wind) this is only a matter of freedom to ride with one hand , a bar looks more simple and clean to me. To launch and land also even to Wind the lines back on the bar is so simple. May be after a while I would get use to the handles , I know it is more accurate , I'll see in the future .
I begun back in 2001 with handles then switched to bars.
I do both kite-ski and kitesurfing . I prefer kite-ski since this is so easy to launch wherever you want and just drive with your car on the lake until you find the best spot. Also you don't need much Wind to kite which means more kite-skiing sessions , in fact almost everyday .I bought this quiver but will keep my other quiver for gusty strong winds.

lunchbox - 4-4-2015 at 12:04 PM

Yeah, I was wondering what RedSky just asked.

Curious as well, why not use handles with a strop? That way you get the control of handles and also the ability to ride relatively hands free or at least one hand.

early bird2 - 4-4-2015 at 01:31 PM

Hi Lunchbox ! did you mean a stop , stopper device ?

B-Roc - 4-4-2015 at 03:17 PM

He meant strop which is a link line between the handles which allows you to hook them into a harness

cheezycheese - 4-4-2015 at 03:18 PM

No, he meant what he said... a strop is a line the connects your flying handles. This line usually passes through the hook or roller of a spreader bar on a harness. This will allow you that free hand you're looking for. Also will give your arms a break.

early bird2 - 4-4-2015 at 03:31 PM

oh , thanks Cheezycheese to clarify . Yes I already use it but I had no clue this was called a strop.

Wind should finally be gentle this week , I'll have a chance to experiment différents settings

John Holgate - 4-4-2015 at 03:40 PM

All the Ozone stuff that I've had has flown very well on the Ozone Turbo Bar. Never tried a Yakuza though, although I remember someone said it worked ok. Might take a while to get to grips with the Yak on a bar though. :D

early bird2 - 4-4-2015 at 05:24 PM

John , how would you connect the lines , since the turbo is a depower bar ?

indigo_wolf - 4-4-2015 at 06:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by early bird2

John , how would you connect the lines , since the turbo is a depower bar ?

Despite questionable wording in the Ozone marketing material, the Ozone Turbo Bar is NOT A DEPOWER BAR.

The manual should make it easier to suss out how to connect the power and brack leaders. There is a diagram of the Turbo Bar layout and connections here:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=14931&g...

John posted a thread earlier on how to fine tune the Turbo Bar with extension to the the power line leaders. The thread can be found here:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=12170

ATB,
Sam

John Holgate - 4-4-2015 at 08:48 PM

Don't get me started on Ozone marketing!! As Sam says, it's not a depower bar and no bar (that I'm aware of) can add depower to a kite. It was Iain from Ozone who told me that he was running a Yak on the turbo bar and said it was working. Not all kites like the turbo bar. I'm not even sure Ozone is still making them - can't seem to get onto their site atm.

I made a vid on the turbo bar which I hope explains it ok...

Ozone Turbo Bar video

rtz - 4-4-2015 at 10:06 PM

Peter Lynn now makes a "turbo bar" since Ozone currently isn't: http://www.bigmikeskites.com/Parts/Parts.html

early bird2 - 4-4-2015 at 10:49 PM

I appreciate your help very much. Very good video .

Humm ! funny but I realise that I don't have a turbo bar in my quivers , I do have three différents ozone bars , the basic one on the Flows without a hole in the bar , the ones with the mantas are similar to the Turbo but without the blocks and the 2015 one on my new Reo.

I will try without the blocks , manta's bar , looks way cleaner , I'll see if the kite turns well or not but I doubt about it . As you say , I will then attach the flying lines to the middle line that goes to the loop and harness and then the brakes lines to the ends of the bar.

John Holgate - 5-4-2015 at 02:25 AM

Quote:

I will try without the blocks , manta's bar , looks way cleaner , I'll see if the kite turns well or not but I doubt about it . As you say , I will then attach the flying lines to the middle line that goes to the loop and harness and then the brakes lines to the ends of the bar.

Tried that with a 2m Beamer - too much brake input caused the kite to lose a bit of air in the turns with a resulting stall and spin. I would guess that the Yakuza will be FAR more temperamental than a Beamer. I had the video running at the time too......

early bird2 - 5-4-2015 at 03:57 AM

John ,this is the best video I have seen so far , well done. I'm now convinced I made the good choice to ask on this forum instead of wasting my time with the wrong bars and ripping my kites while experimenting.

I have an SS Turbo 2 bar with blocks at the end of the bar already , so It could be a starting point , then add extra blocks and all the required rig or : just order a turbo bar from Peter Lynn . But still , I don't know if it would do a good job on the Yakuza .
Now I see the handles very simple compared to this Turbo bar and all the added rig needed . Is there a big Gain ?
The bar is also something to hold on when I jump but the way it is rigged on the Turbo bar I Wonder if I could put any weight on it.
Can I jump with the Yakuzas should probably be the first question to ask .
Just curious , are you still using the bars or are you back to handles ?

early bird2 - 5-4-2015 at 04:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by rtz

Peter Lynn now makes a "turbo bar" since Ozone currently isn't: http://www.bigmikeskites.com/Parts/Parts.html

Thanks RTZ I will keep it with my notes , that could be the way to go.

Bladerunner - 5-4-2015 at 11:13 AM

Welcome.

I spent too much time trying to make my fixed bridle kites work on a ( crossover ) bar. It works well enough that I almost had myself convinced it was a good idea. The light went on one day when I was trying to fly my 5m Ace in choppy inland winds and only getting frustrated. In my frustration I put the kite on handles and it was like a totally different kite. Still a struggle but I got out riding that day!

I have found that learning how to fly FB and a strop PROPERLY with handles with less push pull and more brake turns made all the difference. I can ride 1 handed for long periods once the kite is set and I just make minor adjustment with the brakes.

I much prefer a bar and so fly mostly depower now. I found that snowkiting with FB meant I was overpowered in some parts of the lake and under powered in others. Depower gives me the range I need for varying conditions. I much prefer jumping with a bar and depower kite.

early bird2 - 5-4-2015 at 01:35 PM

Bladerunner , I appreciate your reply.

I also think a bar is hard to beat but for now I'll do my best to enjoy these very well made kites.

These are probably kites made to navigate and not to do bump and jump style.

I like the feeling of a fixed bridle very much although they don't have a big range . The depowered kites feel like a trash bag compared to the direct feel of a FB.
In steady Wind they are hard to beat but in any disturbed Wind they are not friendly at all. I'll get use to the handles first and see how I like them.
I shure have a tendency to sail underpowered with a FB , I was watching kids playing with 11meters C2 yesterday in strong gusty Wind in wich I would only use a 5 meters FB.

I don't know , May be this was a mistake to buy this quiver after all , only time spent on the lake will give me the answer.

John Holgate - 5-4-2015 at 03:33 PM

I haven't flown any of my fixed bridles or depowers for a couple years now as I've been enjoying the Born-kite NS2's so much. I still always use a bar which doesn't give me any gain in control (probably a bit less actually but I can do everything I need to do with them). I also like the one handed ease of use and being able to wave a camera around with the other hand. So for me, the gain is all in comfort and ease of use - not control.

If you buy or make a turbo bar, DON'T pull the bar in when you jump (unless the kite is moving really quickly) as you'll just stall the kite and fall on your bum. Something I've done more than once after getting use to flying depowers. I also don't thing you should be putting weight on the bar when you jump, it should all be on your harness and you should be able to trim in/out as needed with bar during the jump - but I am not the guy to give you advice on jumping. Having seen (not flown) how temperamental the Yakuza is in gusty conditions and how quickly it can fold up, I really wouldn't consider jumping with one.

BeamerBob - 5-4-2015 at 03:35 PM

Don't think there will be anything better about flying race kites on a crossover bar. At best it will be flyable and you will be able to fly with one hand. To gain being able to fly with one hand you are losing the finesse that a race kite will respond to and sometimes needs. If flying with a bar is important, just admit to yourself that you need kites that were designed to fly that way. Try to do this with the Yaks if you are adventurous, but realize that a Rolls Royce isn't a good car to use to make into a great offroad vehicle. You could do it, but there are better solutions to your problem.

early bird2 - 5-4-2015 at 06:39 PM

BeamerBob I understand your point of view and I appreciate it very much . I don't think I really have a problem , I can use the handles and I know the Yakuzas behave at their best this way. The thing is : before to buy these kites , I called an Ozone's dealer and he told me that I did not need handles with the Yakuzas , I could use my existing bars no problems.

So I bought the kites thinking I would use a bar no problems if I wanted to . I will certainly give it a try sometime in the future but for the rest of the season (wich should end very soon) I'll stick with the handles.
I'm just back from the lake and I had quite a good session , I was on the manta 8 meters and twin tips ski , I sailed along with two DNs , I topped 62km on the gps , I Wonder how much faster I would have been with the yakuza and race skis , I can't wait to give it a try. So to do runs like this one , no problems with the Handles.

Bladerunner - 5-4-2015 at 07:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by early bird2

BeamerBob how much faster I would have been with the yakuza and race skis , I can't wait to give it a try. So to do runs like this one , no problems with the Handles.

BeamerBob - 5-4-2015 at 07:35 PM

Early Bird, it sounds like you got some imperfect advice up front but your abilities and willingness to figure it out are leading you down the path of success. Handles will definitely get the most performance out of these kites for you.

early bird2 - 5-4-2015 at 08:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate

I haven't flown any of my fixed bridles or depowers for a couple years now as I've been enjoying the Born-kite NS2's so much. I still always use a bar which doesn't give me any gain in control (probably a bit less actually but I can do everything I need to do with them). I also like the one handed ease of use and being able to wave a camera around with the other hand. So for me, the gain is all in comfort and ease of use - not control.

If you buy or make a turbo bar, DON'T pull the bar in when you jump (unless the kite is moving really quickly) as you'll just stall the kite and fall on your bum. Something I've done more than once after getting use to flying depowers. I also don't thing you should be putting weight on the bar when you jump, it should all be on your harness and you should be able to trim in/out as needed with bar during the jump - but I am not the guy to give you advice on jumping. Having seen (not flown) how temperamental the Yakuza is in gusty conditions and how quickly it can fold up, I really wouldn't consider jumping with one.

Good tip , it might be why I'm not very good at jumping. We never know to much , thanks.

early bird2 - 5-4-2015 at 08:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Quote: Originally posted by early bird2

BeamerBob how much faster I would have been with the yakuza and race skis , I can't wait to give it a try. So to do runs like this one , no problems with the Handles.

To get that power boost with the YaS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s you will want to finesse the brakes at the edge ala depower. I touch of brake will make a huge change in power at that point.

As I suggested, learning to fly depower on handles but applying brake tension like a depower rather than " push pull " made all the difference. Try stropping in and holding ( using ) your handles like a bar. Learning this technique will gain you a LOT more control. Using a bar is just dumbing down the kite.

Humm ! Sorry but I'm a little confused with the push pull concept.
Do you mean to keep and apply tension on the brakes evenly and pulling on one handle and pushing the other one( sliding the strop on the hook) to turn the kite without changing the pressure on the brakes
I am currently slacking one side's break and pulling the other to turn the kite . I thought this was more accurate this way ??

Ok : I'm just back from a 2 hours session , I think I understand what you meant , I would need a roller instead of my regular harness hook . there is a lot of restriction on the strop so I end up not using it as much as I should. I felt a lost of speed while using only the brakes to turn the kite , (especially to sine it to get the apparent Wind) so that must be the point . Thanks again.

Bladerunner - 6-4-2015 at 10:37 AM

I often find that at the point the crew are moving down to 5m kites I am just getting well powered on my 15m Synergy so riding 5m Yak along with 11m C kites makes sense.

The Yak is a fast and powerfull. Even putting a 5m Yak up against a 5m non-race FB you would probably choose a size smaller.

It sounds like you are already applying brakes properly? By not push / pulling I mean that i don't slide the strop back and forth accross the hook. I ride with most tension on the front lines via the hook. When I am cruising with the kite set at the edge I can let go of both handles for short periods of time. I can just tweek the brake on one side slightly to redirect the kite up slightly if it is dropping. Both hands and an even touch of brake creates the power boost.

early bird2 - 6-4-2015 at 11:37 AM

Yep , this is how I was cruising along this morning , One hand and a little tweek to bring the kite back up once in a while.

Yes I am moving the kite up and down with a little brake but honestly , I thought I would have been better to use more often the push pull method in order to keep the kite moving fast.

This is kind of a reflex to drive the kite with the handles , this is how I learned back in 2001 and it came back naturally. I don't really think about what I am doing.

But talking about the yak , yes this is such a beast . I begun with the 10 meters this morning , there was not even enough Wind to lift the kite from the snow . I managed to fly it anyway and the Wind picked-up 10 minutes later , not much but I felt already very powered up , I was dreaming of a cam cleat in the handles to shorten the power lines. They have a system on the new North Juice bar that allow to adjust the lenght of the back lines . Anyway , this 10 can pull quite a lot compared to my Manta 10 meters. I came back and switched to my 6 meters but the 8.6 would have been rideable.

Something weird about these Yaks , could they fold in two for nothing ? wow they are crazy about that , especially out of a jibe or in any Wind fluctuation. I was able to keep the kite up everytime it happened by putting a little brake or by flying the kite non stop. But Humm , better to be concentrated.

They make me think of the Ozone's Edge , the more you give them speed the faster they go.

I won't get rid of my others kites , whenever the Wind is gusty I won't be using the Yaks.I still try to imagine how to land these kites if I get overpowered and or if I happen to fall , no security to let go of the strop.

Sorry for the long story.

Best Wind to you....

John Holgate - 6-4-2015 at 03:00 PM

Quote:

no security to let go of the strop.

Most folks I know run the strop through a pulley, which is then attached to a wichard quick release which is then attached to the harness. Pull the release and everything is let go.

One of the riders I fly with occasionally lands his YaS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s by 'gift wrapping' something with them - ie: he brings them down in front of a pole or steep dune and quickly walks forward wrapping the pole/dune with the kite. Works well for him. I once flew my Ozone Method 6.5m alongside him with his 6.8m Yak - he completely left me for dead in 7 - 8 knots as the Yak just thrives on apparent wind. Once the wind got up to 12knots or so, the tables were turned as he was overpowered with the Yak but the Method was pulling nicely.

early bird2 - 6-4-2015 at 05:36 PM

HI John ! I use a similar shakle to tie my kites on my ice screw or to tether my inflatable on the side of the Wind window in summer time.
This is a very good idea . Thanks to remind me this tip. I currently use a sliding bar , this is a dynabar sliding spreader bar , I should be able to figure something out for this bar . I like this bar very much.

It reminds me something : many years ago I was searching for a security system like this and asked a friend of mine if he knew anything that could be used . The next day he brought me kind of a shackle used to hold the caws into there boxes while milking.I was quite happy with this thing since it was also very cheap . Until one day I decided to give it a try Under tension.oups....it did not open , they were not meant to open Under pressure.

Talking of the gift rap , this is funny because I use to wrap my kites in very strong winds on a small house at the water's edge at the marina. To self launch in this heavy Wind was not too bad but to land was hairy....

Yes the Yaks are fast and they look like a solid board when going along until.....they fold . Now I know they are not meant to jump. They could fold on me anytime and I'd fall very quickly out of the sky. This is funny because I thought they were looking like the Chronos wich are known to be very good glider.

early bird2 - 7-4-2015 at 01:38 PM

I want to take a minute to thanks everyone who answered on my topic , I am very impressed with the quick and Professional way you guys helped with various opinions and tips.

Cheers!

Bladerunner - 7-4-2015 at 02:21 PM

It sounds like you are using the handles as I would. A certain amount of push pull is needed. Especially when working up power. ( I tend to ride unhooked at this point ) The tweak the brake for control method applies more once the kite is set and you are cruising in " park and ride " .

A huge number of us on this forum understand exactly where you are coming from. Many of us enjoy both handles and depower. ( almost none prefer a FB on a bar ) . I do!

I think there are many reasons that Ozone dropped the FB kites. One of the major ones is that the newer Chrono style kites are proving to be a superior weapon for high speed + low wind. Add in the great ( reliable ) boost that you can create and ...

early bird2 - 7-4-2015 at 03:12 PM

I'm going to wait for the new R1 or Chrono 2 to see how they behave.