Power Kite Forum

Is jumping high liabilty?

Bladerunner - 20-6-2015 at 10:04 AM

We are working on a code of conduct for Garry Point. It is proposed that we ban jumping as part of that code.

Garry point gets all sorts of " sand traps " as the season goes on. Combine that with our typical low winds and busy park and I rarely ever find the ideal conditions to jump there. I just don't get many days that it all comes together. When the park gets bad I go to the buggy. The sand traps are just too frustrating / unsafe. These are choices I make using the tiny bit of common sense I seem to have.

I feel like a group of people who don't jump are telling me I can't jump. They are doing it in response to a group of people who don't kite saying they can't kite.

The young folks who are attracted to the sport are attracted to the air time. We have had one go on to be a PL sponsored kitesurfer. Jumping has been going on in the park for almost as long as kiting and to my knowledge the only issue was 1 pilot going to hospital with a self inflicted cracked tail bone. At a time when we will need to grow in numbers to afford insurance I am thinking this will kill our chances of bringing in youth?

So ... are those of us that dream of big air a greater public liability to the sport than any other kite pilot that does or does not use common sense?

My years of jumping are going to come to an end sooner than later. I can accept not jumping at Garry Point and it won't change my world much at all. I will have to disagree with this rule for the hope of growing the sport locally.





IFlyKites - 20-6-2015 at 10:35 AM

I certainly do think jumping is high liability. However, one can get lifted without trying to jump so I'm not sure how effective that "code" would be. Maybe it should be more, "Kite responsibility at your own risk" type of thing to start. Any sport is high liability if you think about it. Anyone can get injured or injure someone else if they aren't careful. So it's a matter of not going over your own abilities/level. I would never try jumping until I am able to fly the kite with my eyes closed.

If we do see irresponsible behavior at GP with power kiters, we can always update the code of conduct. Most people who fly at the park I've seen, seem to be on their best behavior. Just my two cents. Hopefully the meeting goes well.

Cheers,

Ari

Devoted - 20-6-2015 at 11:14 AM

We had some issues in the Netherlands in the past. More people became attracted to the sport. One company gave insurance to kites for 30 dollar a year. Incase you used an accident.
So that was good.

The buggy club Holland (BCH) tried to regulate the activity and growing population at IJmuiderslag. Its one of the widest beaches in the Netherlands. Biggest complain from non kiters was as I remember the high speed buggies can achieve and sharp lines. For a while the buggiers and Longboard kiters needed to wear yellow jerseys to be seen from a distance.
But over time, and the sport kept growing, the local government made a zone (area) on that beach for kiters to kite. They put up signs saying that kite activity is part of that zone.
They acknowledged the fact that this particular beach kept attracting kiters and it was better to regulate it with a zone instead of trying to keep the kiters of the beach.
Basically the story in a nutshell.

Thanks to the BCH who really put themself on the line and in my opinion fought for all kiters to be able to keep it up at IJmuiderslag.

On a windy day you see big air landbaords, buggiers and blowkarts speeding and kite lessons being giving on that spot.

So in my opinion its good that more kiters do their thing on one spot. Incase something happens there are people around to perform first aid and or to help a hand when a new kiter does irresponsible stuff by teaching them responsibility.
And at the same time there is freedom to explore limits.
All with keeping an eye out for the fellow kite and sharing a coffee.

It can be done.
So I say, yes to jumping and yes to big beaches where kiters can hang out in peace.
And jumping is part of the learning process. People do it no matter what, so better learn it surrounded by fellow kiters who know the drill and stimulate safety while teaching appropriate behaviour and respect for other beach users while kiting.

Jumping is not a liability. Jumping is fun and accomplishing a trick or Arial can be very selfrewarding.

Too big of a kite in the hands of a beginner in winds that are not suitable for the kite is a liability. Specialy when there is no one around.

Peace out....

RedSky - 20-6-2015 at 11:31 AM

Those that don't kite have to understand that your park is for everyone. You cannot ban a dad and his daughter flying a kite and it's only a small step on up from that to young Timmy jumping with his first power kite that his uncle bought him. How do you police a ban on jumping? You'd have to ban static flying altogether as a small jump is often an unintentional consequence of flying a power kite and sometimes it's even necessary as part of the control of a power kite to dispense it's energy. It sounds a little unfair to close the door on newcomers.

Last year was an eye opener for me. I met with a guy at my local beach. He posted here and wanted someone to teach him how to fly a depower kite. While he was flying, me standing next to him, we kept being buzzed by kite buggies even though I chose an empty part of the beach when I arrived. I knew who they were but they did not recognize me as I was incognito.

The guy I was teaching was completely oblivious to them as he was looking skyward the entire time but for me it was the first time in all my years of kite buggying that I had a pedestrian view of the sport. Their faces hidden behind helmets and their eyes covered by visors it was impossible to read their intentions. The lack of eye contact or a simple wave of acknowledgement to our presence, to me was a little intimidating and of course it was never their intention to be intimidating, they were simply going about their day but I wonder if those who don't fly at your park feel as I did. Perhaps it's not just a question of skill.

A code of conduct might include, avoid flying your kite over other people.



Liability to the public or self...

skimtwashington - 20-6-2015 at 12:50 PM

The public may be safer where there is a kite jumper over a kitebuggier . The former is remaining in a small area while the latter is cutting across tremendously more or the public's space. The public often will give wide berth around the Kite jumpers smaller play area.

I ride at a place where kite jumping is not banned, but kite buggying is.... officially anyway.

Percentage or Numbers? If jumping is riskier than kite buggying but jumping is a fraction of the total power kiters on the land....then there may be more likely an accident or injury with the kite buggy group over the static kite jumper, because of the greater number of those players.

So, no.....I don't think kite jumpers bring any GREATER liability to public safety-.

Liability regarding self injury is much different. The potential risk may be greater in Kite jumping over kite buggying, but the smaller number of Power kiters who participate in kite jumping in actuality don't increase the overall total user risk over the spectrum of all users very much.

This is all assuming that jumping(any height or length?) with a kite is riskier than speeding across the beach sand at 25,35, or 45 mph in a buggy...... in gusty winds ?....


Don't provide that Jumping be a banned SUB-activity. Absolutely not.

Bladerunner - 20-6-2015 at 04:42 PM

It is all good. After meeting today it sounds like we will reword the policy on jumping. IF we get to stay in the park.

I was thinking about jumping on ATB ( and blades ) when writing this but Skim' has a very valid point about static jumping.

IFlyKites - 21-6-2015 at 10:11 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  


A code of conduct might include, avoid flying your kite over other people.



That might be a bit difficult since there are kids/people that could run under while flying. Since this is a public park, it gets packed with other single line kite fliers during the weekends. So I usually try and get there earlier before too many people show up.

Devoted - 21-6-2015 at 08:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
It is all good. After meeting today it sounds like we will reword the policy on jumping. IF we get to stay in the park.

I was thinking about jumping on ATB ( and blades ) when writing this but Skim' has a very valid point about static jumping.


I want to add that I think its good that you are in contact with authorities. It create a bigger understanding for kites and the possibilities they gave to the kiters. Some just want to fly, others cruise, and others search for the extreme variation.

Mr. Bladerunner,
You took a task upon yourself for your kitespot and created responsibility to not only think of your needs, but also the needs of other kiters and pedestrians.
Way to go. Because if no one does it, its easy for local government to ban activities they don't understand.

Your passion for the sport is recognized and thumbs up for your efforts.
Keep remembering you are sitting at the table for all parties, including pedestrians.
I wish you the outcome you hope fore.

Good luck

Devoted - 21-6-2015 at 09:04 PM

PS...I discovered local authorities are more worried about kites in hands of inexperienced kiters, than bout the ones who know what they are doing. So if they play hard ball, your point of vie might be that more kiters on one spot also brings social control and education in play.

PHREERIDER - 22-6-2015 at 06:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Devoted  
PS...I discovered local authorities are more worried about kites in hands of inexperienced kiters, than bout the ones who know what they are doing. So if they play hard ball, your point of vie might be that more kiters on one spot also brings social control and education in play.


a respectful skilled rider/flyer goes a long way...one rouge newbie can ruin it. self policing, done properly , educates and can lay out some courteous rules "stay away form the people " , "trek further out" . passive safety for the public is the kiters responsibility, no matter what you are doing. the kiters safety?...that will take care of itself one way or another.

Devoted - 22-6-2015 at 09:28 AM

Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER  
Quote: Originally posted by Devoted  
PS...I discovered local authorities are more worried about kites in hands of inexperienced kiters, than bout the ones who know what they are doing. So if they play hard ball, your point of vie might be that more kiters on one spot also brings social control and education in play.


a respectful skilled rider/flyer goes a long way...one rouge newbie can ruin it. self policing, done properly , educates and can lay out some courteous rules "stay away form the people " , "trek further out" . passive safety for the public is the kiters responsibility, no matter what you are doing. the kiters safety?...that will take care of itself one way or another.


And at times, people need to tell a new kiter that. Because we all are enthusiastic when we start out kiting and can forget about surroundings. Specially when new and having to pay attention to the kite and not quite being able to anticipate up front on a lot of different aspects.

1oldkid - 22-6-2015 at 12:20 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Devoted  
Quote: Originally posted by PHREERIDER  
Quote: Originally posted by Devoted  
PS...I discovered local authorities are more worried about kites in hands of inexperienced kiters, than bout the ones who know what they are doing. So if they play hard ball, your point of vie might be that more kiters on one spot also brings social control and education in play.


a respectful skilled rider/flyer goes a long way...one rouge newbie can ruin it. self policing, done properly , educates and can lay out some courteous rules "stay away form the people " , "trek further out" . passive safety for the public is the kiters responsibility, no matter what you are doing. the kiters safety?...that will take care of itself one way or another.


And at times, people need to tell a new kiter that. Because we all are enthusiastic when we start out kiting and can forget about surroundings. Specially when new and having to pay attention to the kite and not quite being able to anticipate up front on a lot of different aspects.



All very good points you guys!

Edited to add:
I fly lots of single line kites at some local fun fly's, and a point we always try to do is help educate the younger generations of kids who come out to learn about kites that there is a safety aspect for yourselves and others around you that is important.