Power Kite Forum - flysurfer resurrection! + vid

flysurfer resurrection! + vid

PHREERIDER - 22-6-2015 at 07:58 AM

I picked up this unit from John "powerzone " as a project,

FS Deluxe Edition( black/gold/white) Speed 3 12M

existing damage, 21 rib tears, most full chord and numerous cross cell limiters roughly 2/cell. translates to 80% gutted! not even sure most would repair it.

this is a huge repair by any scope, i have some pics and will add along... most look like a wad of torn ripstop, but some nice clear shots of typical rib repair.

currently i am at the mid point of the restoration with about 3 hours in it, going at a pace of about 3 ribs an hour. thankfully i did what i believe to be the worst side first. so may speed up the last half.

plus i picked up an Infinity II bar from DAVE(proletariat) which will add to the sweetness of this sublime device.

once i reset for the unfinished side i will start pics . i did not get initial inflation pics as the task at hand immediately sucked me in to work flow.

the kite DOES NOT have slam vents like my pulse2 and psycho4 ..if it had i prolly would not be doing this. looks to be pretty hard loop slams ,,and not the first by seeing old repairs inside.

anyway, definitely has deepened repair skills and process for FS units , not sure how common repairing this scope of catastrophic damage is in kite world...but the knowledge, understanding and experience have been priceless!

ssayre - 22-6-2015 at 08:05 AM

Pretty sure repair of that scope is limited to a select few. That's cool taking on such a task. After that you could probably handle about anything. I'm dreading just doing a small repair on a seam on the 8.5 blade that's crossing the pond soon.

PHREERIDER - 22-6-2015 at 08:45 AM

i 'm just stoked to getting it finished to fly it....the dreaded start took a while, after the look see on the damage a moment of clarity produced a significant pause in action, but as i set it up for "one hour a day therapy" it painlessly has come together.

Kamikuza - 22-6-2015 at 08:23 PM

...sounds like the damage the one I had had. Sold it to PZ, he repaired it! I'm sticking with regular cloth in smaller sizes...

Good work, brave man! I can't get around to fixing the small tear on my p4 19...

PHREERIDER - 23-6-2015 at 05:09 AM

may be very same one Kami, not sure.

i figured the unit had value of about $800-1000 and the repair would have been close $500.

so, i know i would not sell it , and just use it till its gone, maybe 1000hours. if i seal it certainly more. mixing it in with my P4 12m should give me ample FS unit service for solid 2-3years.

abkayak - 23-6-2015 at 05:17 AM

sounds like that repair would be way more than 500$ ...21 ribs your kinda butterflying that kite
good luck there Dr Frankenstein

Kamikuza - 23-6-2015 at 05:17 AM

I thought he fixed and sold it last year? Was in bloody good condition... before it exploded. Really crispy material. So nice...

Randy - 23-6-2015 at 06:18 AM

Good luck - would love to see some pictures.

PHREERIDER - 23-6-2015 at 07:35 AM

i have some pics and will try to get a good detail "before" of the remaining half that needs restoration.

the work flow sequence is the heady part. adjoin, tape and stitch are the easy fast parts.

the cross cell elements, which require fresh tabbing on the ends to replace pull out shreds, is the "where does these go?" moment in an already distorted orientation. and these German cats are serious with rigid cell control elements and load straps holy cow batman!

i'll try and relate with pics description ASAP

PHREERIDER - 23-6-2015 at 09:09 AM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

sounds like that repair would be way more than 500$ ...21 ribs your kinda butterflying that kite
good luck there Dr Frankenstein

its a guesstimate, never had a kite repair bill, so not sure how they(a professional) would bill for work like this and $80/hr is what i came up with , but more ! really, wow.

for restoration application and subsequent use for me fits perfectly.

and i have not come across a DNR tag yet..... so yes its reanimation is eminent...

PHREERIDER - 28-6-2015 at 07:05 PM

ok wrapping up this repair. other half only about 8 profiles , took only 90minutes. so just under 5 hours to repair this unit.

got some pics along the way , kinda blane so i wanted to wait and get fly pics , should have a group of pics in couple days.

definitely satisfying getting it done! Nice looking unit never know it from the outside, few tiny LE points by a valve but one was old adhesive .

stoked for FS !

thanks John for the project!

BeamerBob - 29-6-2015 at 05:52 AM

You have a sewing machine now? You might start competing with the folks in Texas for repair work. If you call it therapy, it's good for everyone. Can't wait to see the results in flight.

Seems like those guys charge about $50 a foot.

PHREERIDER - 29-6-2015 at 06:54 AM

hey Bob, this gonna sound funny and i say it like this everytime,

"i bought a sewing machine for $20 from an ashram in savanah" , a few years back and man it has keep alot of kite action in the non stop mod for sometime

fixed alot of tubes, even complex LE repairs , most of these are on aged units...but when its good you want your fav junk ready. surprising how fast tubes can be fixed

the FS repair has been a monster , i have used 50' of 2" ripstop tape, and thats single side and stitch! 2-3ft a profile, 21 ribs! plus tabs for cross members.

gained a lot of experience, technique and process flow with this one.

i did want to clarify its a "repair " not panel replacement "restoration"(really out of the question) but i use restoration as implied for function. still, definitely pro caliber in precise detail fit, finish. plus the machine action is deeply comforting! repairing it(the machine) was just as satisfying!!!

its fun in a "project " form and i really like seeing near garbage returned to full function.

what i could easily pay to be done, somehow, would leave me weak and empty ... this action and understanding, in all its glorious details, pheeds what $ can't buy.

grigorib - 29-6-2015 at 07:21 AM

Let us know how does that phenix fly, back from ashes.

PHREERIDER - 29-6-2015 at 07:32 AM

will do, couple days, definitely get the bar/lines combo set up and leaf blower look at it as well.

acampbell - 29-6-2015 at 08:16 AM

Great thread, Chad. Can't wait to see the results.

I've got a damaged (and repaired) Charger that I can't trust enough to put on the market. The PL folks told me that the design was intolerant of dimensional repair variations outside of a mm or two. I fear that there may be a bunch of nice little white and greet nylon stuff sacks on the market soon.

BeamerBob - 29-6-2015 at 08:58 AM

That Charger and I have some history. I'd really like some closure like a stuff sack made from it would bring!

Chad you've found a way to "be the kite". The therapy of doing the repair and knowledge gained from the process all contribute to the phlow!

PHREERIDER - 30-6-2015 at 05:02 AM

slight delay in the action .....had to go kite !

powerzone - 30-6-2015 at 06:15 PM

this kite is not from Kami... it is from hawaii which had alot of sun fading and salt as well as the repair. to me it was a total loss so just before i trashed it i remember Phree wanted a project kite. well.... he got one!

good job Phree ! your patience and diligence will pay off

PHREERIDER - 30-6-2015 at 07:15 PM

here we go boys and girls

my magic kite box, contains a dismembered FS 12m speed 3 DELUXE EDTION by means of a lethal 22! rib fracturing king size slam! apparently in Hawaii....

and many thanks John, a premium device worthy of proper revival.

whoudini ...on guard....exquisite interest in the device as well

PHREERIDER - 30-6-2015 at 07:16 PM

busted guts inverted

cracked ribs( standing profiles)

acampbell - 30-6-2015 at 07:22 PM

Gonna be a scraggly PHREE-range kite for sure.

PHREERIDER - 30-6-2015 at 07:33 PM

taped

stitch

tab crossmember and stitch

complete rib repair

22 times, some with jacked LE edge joint sections
4 hours 40minutes

set with infinity II bar and lines, inflated with leaf blower...man thats one beauitful kite. feather light ... never know it from the outside! ....session and fly pics just around the corner.

ssayre - 30-6-2015 at 08:15 PM

Can't wait. Stuff like this reminds me of how much I don't know.

lunchbox - 30-6-2015 at 08:49 PM

Wow...amazing job Phree. Can wait to see pics of kite in phlight!

Kamikuza - 30-6-2015 at 08:50 PM

Good work! I'm afraid to tackle a small, simple repair on my Psycho!

Devoted - 1-7-2015 at 04:02 AM

That's a great job. Well done. The kite deserves your name on it.
A phreesurfer.

abkayak - 1-7-2015 at 05:15 AM

a FS Phreed 3 dlux.....still tuff to understand 21 ribs at once...maybe had some ribs already done in and a secondary crash?
dont those things have blow out vents??? doesnt really matter good work sir!!

PHREERIDER - 1-7-2015 at 05:17 AM

thanks guys, it came out great. by selectively rotating this unit with my P4, the balance of the material life its easily gonna be few years, it seems pretty decent life left in the material ... my pulse II is far worse off on material life span. may get a fly today, with pics

PHREERIDER - 1-7-2015 at 05:55 AM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

a FS Phreed 3 dlux.....still tuff to understand 21 ribs at once...maybe had some ribs already done in and a secondary crash?
dont those things have blow out vents??? doesnt really matter good work sir!!

this series did not have slam vents, a weight thing in the DLX case i think. most likely out of range slam...kite speed in 25 knots of wind in LE slam easily could be 40 mph+ when it jams, and with bridle tension, it just helps it propagate instantly in the wink of an eye!

definitely testament to outside skin material integrity at the time of the slam, if the material was truly at the end the outside would look like the inside. and the dlx fabric i think is actually stronger than the regular, material selection in design makes it crack this way.

Bladerunner - 1-7-2015 at 06:58 PM

One has to wonder if all this damage would have been completely avoided with traditional blow outs?

Did folks have this kind of damage with older deluxe skin models?

I am sure you will cherish this kite for a long time. Great Job!

PHREERIDER - 2-7-2015 at 05:16 AM

the kite feature is its light weight , vents are a distance secondary addition. Not sure the rate of damage across series with DLX fabric, i would tend to think the rate of damage would be a little higher, the amount of damage certainly may be greater as in this case.

if thats the case more units may be around for work like this.

thanks Ken, happiness in learning....it will deliver its due with TIME , that i will cherish indeed

PHREERIDER - 6-7-2015 at 08:03 AM

finally got a tune session in with this unit. all looks good ...after considerable tweaking took a couple laps with it , not as snappy as the P4. in general kite seems ok.

internal pressure just seems weak, LE never produces solid shape the "depower dent " not filling out.

took a lap on the water and the land board and then jump onto P4 . P4 so much more powered and serious pop available...did only about 15min with it. may take few more tweaks , compared when i started with it had definite major improvements esp. after mixer reset and letting out top adjuster. very stable, well behaved , just weak and fades at peak power stroke. few more sessions this week and i'll try and get it sorted, very close. may put it on leaf blower try and find the leak(s). may have to recoat it. we'll see maybe just need more ride time on it to locate whats left of the sweet spot.

will get some pics as well

ssayre - 6-7-2015 at 04:38 PM

Hopefully just some leaks you can fix? Where do they tend to leak most? seams or through porous fabric?

PHREERIDER - 6-7-2015 at 05:31 PM

fabric in this case. once lines bed and heavy/weak spots balance through bridle in couple hours of loaded rides, i will definitely get closer on sweet spot, next hour i take it out i will get better bar feel and load rate wired for light bar speed setting...may have to do a measure on bridle ,some may be sprung

for me , land board in 10-15 is best for super fine light wind tuning, most of my stuff is set for about 10-15 and will get me on water in same. when i can throw powered land jumps , even huck loops, i can get on water with TT. and this kite should that easily esp. for land

Devoted - 6-7-2015 at 06:38 PM

Just want to say I really like following this thread. Its interesting to see what you do and the effort you put in this kite.

PHREERIDER - 6-7-2015 at 07:03 PM

thanks, helps me stay on it. hopefully it will start pulling regular sessions this week. loving my P4 ATM!

markite - 7-7-2015 at 06:34 AM

nice project to follow Chad - i can really appreciate the amount of work that goes into fixing split and shredded internal structure - good work!

PHREERIDER - 7-7-2015 at 08:57 AM

thanks mark, just glad to be thru the repair , one of those looming projects that had to be done before i could move onto other stuff. looks like its gonna be a solid unit

PHREERIDER - 8-7-2015 at 04:57 AM

heres the first flight, after fooling with the gopro it worked for like 10 min then nothing! glad the file was there!

https://vimeo.com/132894701

BeamerBob - 8-7-2015 at 06:28 AM

Wow, Chad if you can bring a gutted kite back to that, you can do anything. :thumbup:

PHREERIDER - 8-7-2015 at 06:44 AM

thanks Bob!

ssayre - 8-7-2015 at 07:25 AM

:thumbup:

Looks pretty

I didn't quite follow what was involved. Did you have to cut the thread on the seams, open it, then make internal repairs, then sew back together?

cheezycheese - 8-7-2015 at 07:33 AM

Chad is the kite whisperer... :thumbup:

Randy - 8-7-2015 at 08:00 AM

Wow- that is really impressive work.

PHREERIDER - 8-7-2015 at 09:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Looks pretty

I didn't quite follow what was involved. Did you have to cut the thread on the seams, open it, then make internal repairs, then sew back together?

A most valuable nugget of advice was given to me by Tim at windfiredesign, NOT to open outer skin, unless it was within scope of damage or a nightmare level situation would be at hand.

so its a inverted look to get to the inside, ie pull half the kite through the deflate to deepest damage profile and work backwards from there. staying oriented is the education! the cross member placement/ orientation, working thru the center and any LE /valve involvement was tedious indeed.

handling the material and machine work was the essence in the work which just took time to get up to speed.

the pics just don't do it justice , even just looking at the load of ripstop it becomes overwhelming just to get going.

PHREERIDER - 8-7-2015 at 09:25 AM

thanks guys for checking it out.

figured the vid action beats out pics, now if i could just get the gopro battery to charge!

1oldkid - 8-7-2015 at 12:39 PM

Like said before, WOw!
I can't imagine wrestling that much phabric through a sewing machine!
Phricin' phantastic, awesome job Chad!

:thumbup:

PHREERIDER - 8-7-2015 at 05:23 PM

thanks man it was kinda phun!

Bladerunner - 9-7-2015 at 04:17 AM

Funny, just before you wrote that the shape is nice I was noticing how the leading edge dimples in as you speed the kite up. Like the internal pressure is low?

How strong was the wind? Are your inlets working O.K. ?

The thing looks beautiphul !

My gopro battery died. I think they can be replaced?

soliver - 9-7-2015 at 05:01 AM

I haven't been following this until just now reading through the whole thread... AMAZING work Phree!

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

My gopro battery died. I think they can be replaced?

Glad to you and Phree, yes, Batteries Plus carries a facsimile for $20 I think. Or even GoPro Batteries are available at Target now.

Devoted - 9-7-2015 at 05:53 AM

Great work. I hope you get the pressure sorted out. Maybe you can see what the problem is if you fly the kite towards the sun. The sort of see through look.

:thumbup:

for repairing this kite.

PHREERIDER - 9-7-2015 at 05:54 AM

the "depower dent " was present and as i tweaked the setting reduced it some. checked the valves and seems to be fine. the internal pressure at first seemed like an issue , but not as much as i thought. when i first got my P4 the tip tuck thing was driving me crazy...the more i flew it the less it occurred now it rarely does it. its me not the kite.

wind was about 12+

as i was out on my P4 yesterday the LE is black and can't see it as well as the lighter colored fabric and has fairly same LE look , slightly dented, a little dimple i am considering to be normal. gopro battery charged on computer, thankfully! we'll see how long it last, it has been dropping the charge pretty fast.

a little more fly time, my hands and feel for S3 will be good to go, i have it pretty much set now and will allow time at the current settings to bed in and trim in at the strap for wind speed. got to fly it to know it! every FS i have really liked seems to take a decent amount of time to get used to, and S3 definitely sensitive ...more so with light air , than 15-25 where net power is quite large and sensitivity fades and is turned into brute power

thanks Ken

PHREERIDER - 9-7-2015 at 06:09 PM

ok just banged a 3 hour session with this unit on the land board 12-15mph.

unit is all wired up ready to rock! i did tape closed the drip vents and a few small holes <2mm about as tight is its gonna get.

the reverse concave on LE seemingly of little consequence. all powered pop and jumps, different than P4/ pulse 2 for sure... actually more like old phantom15.

the firing action a little different approach but man what great kite. big smooth swings thru the top with predictable pop, nice and floaty. it has not bumped my P4, yet ...but getting closer! may not have as grunty low end like the P4 but zoom it has got !

PHREERIDER - 10-7-2015 at 08:18 AM

heres side by side S3 and P4

loving this INFINITY 2

lotta goodness right there!

markite - 10-7-2015 at 11:21 AM

abkayak - 10-7-2015 at 11:27 AM

idk...i thought i always see the leading edge on the speeds convexing in...thought it was normal???

PHREERIDER - 10-7-2015 at 12:03 PM

yeah man!

it is normal and within normal operating behavoir, its the visual on the internal pressure, smaller the dimple better pressure. theres basic shape threshold pressure then and the dimple is ...room to grow ! with more wind or just better overall seal. once i tape sealed the dirt out trickle slits things improved considerablely.

ssayre - 10-7-2015 at 06:08 PM

Bar looks awesome. I need that bar on my peak 1.

Kamikuza - 10-7-2015 at 07:58 PM

Concave LE is not supposed to be normal - if you close the nose-valve in the center intake, it deforms the LE and over-all reduces power. Nobody I know of uses that feature, but all the Speeds I've got do the concave. I seem to remember messing with the bridle can fix it, but I could never be bothered... my 15 is noticeably concave, but boosts like a MoFo and still has excellent range. 21 too.

Not trying to teach your grannie to suck eggs, but line length and mixer are vital for bottom end performance, and the Speed should outperform the P4. With my 21 and 15, I pulled the lines and carefully measured them relative to each other then chopped and spliced the centers about 8 inches shorter! Good tune of the mixer, pulling the knots real tight. Bottom end is scary now...

With the bar end pig tails... the little short ones; you can use the outside setting and push the tail down the center to make it clean. You have to pull the knot out as far as it will go, tuck the tail down the hole, then pull that and push the knot to make it go in cleanly. I hate the idea of stuff flapping around :D

Looks great dude, excellent repair work! I was really impressed with the 12 I had, in both high and low wind...

PHREERIDER - 11-7-2015 at 05:02 AM

over the last round of tweaking, the S3 will fly more stable in light seemingly, but P4 is quick with more instant pop. S3 has decent pop, just a little slow on the come around in light.

definitely very close now , one more session then maybe check all lines.

LE is fine, even the manual cover pic has same dimple...and i always run it the front valve open....IF they ever have been fully shaped out i was to busy flying to be concerned with it, i sure in the right breeze the bag is tight and dimple is gone!

thanks man

PHREERIDER - 12-7-2015 at 05:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Kamikuza

With my 21 and 15, I pulled the lines and carefully measured them relative to each other then chopped and spliced the centers about 8 inches shorter! Good tune of the mixer, pulling the knots real tight. Bottom end is scary now...

i have P4 12M already cut down about 5" total, and has impressive low end and very senstive as well, and Speed 3 well on its way ! really starting to shine now. glad i got it!

Kamikuza - 12-7-2015 at 08:26 PM

Ah, I adjusted the lines but use extensions

3m on the 15 and 12