Power Kite Forum - Help me find a shop

Help me find a shop

average_newb - 9-7-2015 at 08:33 AM

I live in Central New York and I don't believe there is a single kite shop around but I really need to find a harness and bar, I don't want to just order them from online in case they don't fit or feel good. I was thinking that maybe some of you guys would know people around here or could help me find the closest shop.

abkayak - 9-7-2015 at 09:07 AM

what exactly is central NY?...someone may be around for you to try there stuff and then you can do the online thing
im sure there's no shop anyway....or you could hit Long Island which you pbly dont want to

average_newb - 9-7-2015 at 10:21 AM

Haha, Central New York is the Syracuse/finger lakes area. You just solidified our views of how non-New Yorkers forget we are an entire state not just a city!!

acampbell - 9-7-2015 at 10:45 AM

And a huge state at that. Just ask the two guys that busted out of prison weeks back (well, one of them anyway).

You won't find a lot of brick and mortar shops that carry true power kite gear. Most of the few "kite shops" out there carry a lot of single line, stunt and recreational stuff with maybe a few foils.

What kind of harness are you looking for? I might be able to help.

abkayak - 9-7-2015 at 10:52 AM

newb...that is so not central NY...might want to consider a Canada trip, i hear its lovely this time of year
sorry i cant help..maybe a local to you will step in, good luck!

acampbell - 9-7-2015 at 11:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

newb...that is so not central NY...might want to consider a Canada trip, i hear its lovely this time of year
sorry i cant help..maybe a local to you will step in, good luck!

Ouch, that was harsh. As a former New Yorker, I think you're picking the fly crap out of the pepper.

average_newb - 9-7-2015 at 11:35 AM

Well here is the biggest problem I'm going to face. I just bought a 2004 16m rhino. The winds around here are usually pretty light, maybe 16mph max up around lake Ontario so I feel like the size won't be too overwhelming. I just need a relatively cheap safe harness. I need a bar that will fit a 5th line, I figured that would be the safest way because there are no instructors out here so I will have to train myself( I know I should never do that I'll die, but that's my only choice.) So basically I need a bar that is easily used with a 5th line and the safest cheapest(because I am a college student) harness. Clearly the most important thing I need is someone that can at least show me how to not kill myself. So if you or anyone knows of a group that kites around here that would be the most help.

bobalooie57 - 9-7-2015 at 11:35 AM

There used to be a kite shop in Oswego, NY, but I'm not sure of the name or if it still exists. I know a guy in Clayton that used to deal in Ozone equipment, I will U2U his info to you.

bobalooie57 - 9-7-2015 at 11:44 AM

Also there are guys in the Syr area riding Oneida Lake and also Ontario. If you are on FB, check the CNY Kiteboarding page.

abkayak - 9-7-2015 at 12:00 PM

i actually didnt intend any harshness...more like humor, but that just me and the long island upbringing
anyway more importantly we got an admitted newb looking to throw 16m up in the air w/out instruction
thats really a bigger issue than helping find a harness...kinda makes us an accessory to the fact

a_n....yes, you may die, really should get some help, even being on a budget

love the crap/pepper line, gonna put that one in my rotation

Windstruck - 9-7-2015 at 12:34 PM

Loving this back and forth! :evil:

Full agreement that the crap/pepper line is an instant classic.

Newb - A fair number of us on PKF are into our 50's or beyond (I know I am). One of the ways we got that old is by not doing things like slinging 16M up into the air right out of the box. I'm with abkayak, it may sound dramatic but death or serious injury is one of those possibilities. Sure winds are usually "16 mph max" as you stated, but it is the gusts that can rise up out of nowhere and kick you in the seat meat like a mule that will get you in trouble. Just ask Spencer (aka soliver) what recovery is like from unexpected vertical ascension (actually the ascension was likely fine; it was the return to earth that proved costly). This is a WONDERFUL sport but things can happen quickly with some big consequences so please take care and consider getting some pointers before just slinging such a big kite up in the air and hoping for the best. Trust me, HOPE IS NOT A STRATEGY.

We all look forward to hearing about your great adventures on these threads. Please be careful and have fun!!!

indigo_wolf - 9-7-2015 at 12:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

anyway more importantly we got an admitted newb looking to throw 16m up in the air w/out instruction
thats really a bigger issue than helping find a harness...kinda makes us an accessory to the fact

Kite... no bar.... Spidey senses tingling.

@average_newb - Without meaning to offend, what other kites have you own/flown?

Syracuse.... where young wolves purchase motorcycles having never been on one with the ignition turned on. Must be something in the water. :rolleyes:

ATB,
Sam

acampbell - 9-7-2015 at 12:55 PM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

i actually didnt intend any harshness...more like humor, but that just me and the long island upbringing
anyway more importantly we got an admitted newb looking to throw 16m up in the air w/out instruction
thats really a bigger issue than helping find a harness...kinda makes us an accessory to the fact

Didn't mean to sound so snarky either. Of course we all know that "central NY" is somewhere along the 72nd St. transverse of Central Park. ;-)

I actually have spent a lot of time in many corners of upstate and love it.

Anyway yeah, the 04 Rhino is a bigger concern. I hope we can find him some good local guidance.

Windstruck - 9-7-2015 at 01:00 PM

Sam - just read the fine print on your avatar - AWESOME! :singing:

Spidey graphic had me laughing out loud. :thumbup:

abkayak - 9-7-2015 at 01:29 PM

truth is Canada is closer than Albany....anyway someone get our new buddy safely in the air, and back to earth
thats the end game

Feyd - 9-7-2015 at 03:21 PM

As others have pointed out, red flags afoot. I think at this point the general consensus is that for most people and especially beginners nothing made pre-06 is going to be remotely safe to learn on. I say this not knowing what your background is but before purchasing bars and a harnesses for a kite that lacks the depower and safety of most "modern" kites you may want to reconsider using the kite you have to try to figure things out solo.

There's gotta be someone up that way that can give you some guidance. ???

ssayre - 9-7-2015 at 03:44 PM

Reading through this, I didn't notice what you intend to do. Are wanting to kitesurf or landboard? What's your previous kiting history? An old 16 meter LEI would scare me and I'd like to think I'm a self declared intermediate. Maybe someone can confirm that to swell my head a tiny bit? :D

Bladerunner - 9-7-2015 at 03:58 PM

Before " throwing up " an old 16m Rhino I suggest you search the closest brick and mortar emergency room.

The tried and true course of action is to buy a trainer kite and learn to fly it blind. ( take lessons at this point if at all possible. ) Move up to a moderate sized beginner friendly depower kite to perfect your upwind body drag, self rescue technique etc.. Trying to fly a monster like you have without knowing how to control it is a recipe for disaster.

Those who take the " go it alone " route usually end up either turned off by the sport or in hospital or ...

The guy who sold you this old kite is not a good friend! I had trouble selling my 16m 04 Aero II for $100 5 or more years ago? [ paid $1000 second hand for it in 05. My biggest loss in a single kite ]

soliver - 9-7-2015 at 04:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Just ask Spencer (aka soliver) what recovery is like from unexpected vertical ascension (actually the ascension was likely fine; it was the return to earth that proved costly).

Thanks for the shout out Steve, but my injury was nothing compared to others who have been way worse... comparatively speaking my broken foot was like an ingrown toenail compared to what Jeff (BigKid) went through... the worst part of it for me was what I put my family through all for the sake of my fun. I had to have several "come-to-Jesus" meetings before I finally pulled my head out of my posterior crevasse and tamed my urge to disregard everyone else if the wind was blowing.

Truth be told the sport is as safe as you make it. Certainly unexpected things happen, but there are a great number of variables we CAN and DO have control over. In my opinion, a decision to start out of the gate with a 16m Depower kite that is 10+ yrs old is a variable that newb should maybe have taken the time to take more control of, and thankfully he has not been able to put the kite in the air yet.

@Newb,... there will always be present the possibility to hurt maim or kill yourself within kiting, but when you approach it with the proper humility, caution and a healthy fear, it can be an incredibly fun and rewarding pastime. Unfortunately, there are a couple of troubling issues worth exploring here and please understand, newb that this is intended to help you.

A. It is not often that people start out with depowerable kites. If you don't know the difference between a Fixed Bridle (FB) and a Depower kite then look into that. The general procedure is to start with a 3m range FB "trainer" type of kite that will teach you the basics of how to FLY the kite rather than SURVIVE the kite. There are fundamentals of flying, kite dynamics, kite anatomy and control that can be learned and WILL prove beneficial to you before you move into the land of depow and locomotion. This is not to say that you cannot start your adventure with a depow kite, but I can tell you that there are many much better and much smaller kites to start with.

B. Not only did you buy a kite (North Rhino) that from the jump, I have read has been deemed a difficult kite to handle, but you have chosen a model that is over 10 yrs old and much too big to be a first (as stated above). Kite anatomy, control, depower, and SAFETY technology has grown leaps and bounds over that time period, and you will frequently hear it said that it is unwise to buy used LEI kites from production years previous to 2006 (primarily for the purpose of safety).

As a community of folks who love what we do, we are here to help you to be successful in your endeavor to get moving powered by the wind, so PLEASE, ask us questions and learn from our experiences. Remember that you are breakable and live with a humility built around that, but don't let that keep you from pushing yourself. And buy a helmet, because if you break your head it is exponentially more difficult to fix as well as to recover from on all accounts.

Demoknight - 9-7-2015 at 04:52 PM

I don't care if someone wants to hurt themselves, or willingly does something stupid as long as it doesn't ruin MY fun. Too many kitemares tend to cause kneejerk reactions from people that hold positions of power in local government. That is why I help people I see struggling with kites in my spots. I am actually selfish, not really that nice of a guy.

Newb, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! Do not fly this kite unless you have experience with this type of kite. This is not a first kite. This is not even a second kite. This is a 5th or 6th kite after having a few years under some equally large ripstop. Get a smaller 3-4m fixed bridle and learn to fly it blind before you even attempt to put the Rhino up. Even then, you better spend months reading and understanding depower kites and their safety systems before you put lines on that thing.

abkayak - 9-7-2015 at 07:04 PM

Well said Demo... Really well said, i was at this exact juncture before someone saved me from myself...possible for their own selfishness...I don't care at this pt. cause I can kite like the dickens now....everyone be safe and have fun......then we drink:D

average_newb - 9-7-2015 at 09:34 PM

I am definitely not planning to just put the kite out with 0 knowledge. I have a 3m training kite that I have been trying to fly whenever there is wind, heck I even made my grandpa take me out on his boat so I could fly the kite behind. The kite is old but it is a 5th line kite meaning it will fully depower. And that was actually the main reason for posting was so I could find a shop to buy this stuff and to get guidance. I may not be experienced but I watched every youtube video and read just about everything on the internet. I definitely won't try to do anything until I have my trainer nailed down. Can I still do this sport if the winds are 16 max or so because from what I have gathered a big kite is a beginners worst nightmare? If a big kite is a beginners worst nightmare and I have moderate to low wind than how can I possible learn? Isn't a big kite needed when wind is so slow? I may be stupid but I'm not too stupid to launch a big kite like that with no understanding of anything, so don't worry too much.

average_newb - 9-7-2015 at 09:37 PM

Oh and I am looking to go on land and water, however not on land for quite a long time because there are more rock hard obstacles to break my skull on.

average_newb - 9-7-2015 at 09:43 PM

And honestly the guy who sold me the kite had no clue that I was new to kiting he had a clear statement that said if you are not experienced than don't buy. So hopefully he doesn't see this and you guys shouldn't be mad at the seller. Btw Abkayak I was not at all offend by anything

djsiryn - 9-7-2015 at 10:03 PM

I understand your enthusiasm for the sport and big kites. I love my big kites! but even if you are a year or so in, an older 16m Rhino is a big danger! I fly a 2008 16m Rhino regularly (seen in my profile pic) and if you are not familiar with it, it will own you and cause a bunch of hurt. The lift is amazing and it is not by any means a beginner kite. Please fly with someone that is experienced and can help you learn safely.

average_newb - 9-7-2015 at 10:14 PM

Another quick update for all of you, I just got a 12m also so I will definitely be using that before the 16m.

Bladerunner - 10-7-2015 at 02:04 AM

A 12m what? What year? What size and model of trainer?

It is great that you understand folks on here are out for your best interests. + have twisted senses of humor.

I am confused. I didn't think fifth line came out until 05. With 04 I think folks used the pump leash attachment to upgrade to 5th line? 5th line does NOT improve your depower ! ( not until much newer versions ) It flips the kite on safety and makes re-launch a bit easier. Still re-launching that beast will be a PITA.

Your Rhino will NOT fly all that early ( I would guess 8 mph minimum ? ) and will overpower you well before 16mph. Low wind had not been figured out back in 04. A 16m kite was just a fat guys 14m. It didn't fly much earlier but had a ton more grunt. ALWAYS size for gusts! The 12m will be a much better size in the 10 - 16 mph range for learning assuming it is a good kite for learning? If you are looking for a REAL low wind LEI you need to look at kites newer than 2010 with low wind specific to the design. Or closed cell foils.

If that Rhino pumps up and you see how much kite it is, YES you are wise to be scared!! Dangerous scary! ( I predict a lesson in bladder repair is in your future! ) WHO will be able to ground handle that beast safely for you ??????? You will NEED a kite biatch with that thing! Especially during the learning curve. It's one thing to biatch a 7m. A 16m takes some talent.

Work on controlling that trainer kite you have without even looking at it. Work on doing this in a sitting position as well. Imitating board starts. If possible hook into the trainer and get a feel for taking the power through your core. If your trainer doesn't have a loop for hooking in you can buy one online cheap.

It's tough to learn on your own but not impossible. Keep listening to the advice on here. Buy a good quality training video and watch it until it runs in your head. Pay particular attention to self rescue and how to handle nautical travel. Check out www.kitesurfingscholl.org

You are right to wish you could try some harnesses. They become a very personal choice. One tip, a Dakine spreader bar pad will make any harness a lot more comfortable.

As folks have mentioned you are representing a sport that is fighting bans almost every place we go. ( happening to me personally at the moment ) Even if you are on your own if you mess up and media gets a hold of it our situation can be even further damaged.

DON'T get sucked in to cheap old kites and impulse buying! You get what you pay for in this sport!

rtz - 10-7-2015 at 02:11 AM

Is this place to far away? http://nykitecenter.com/

abkayak - 10-7-2015 at 06:01 AM

yes too far away...and not not in his budget...anyway a/n, you seem to have a grasp of the seriousness of what could happen when you put any kite up...it doesnt matter if its a 16,12, or trainer....im self taught because of the $$$ as well
it can be done just be super cautious....imo your not really ready for the 12 till you lose a few teeth from flying the trainer
in too much wind....ask questions we will always help.....send me down a thb from Cosmos

skimtwashington - 10-7-2015 at 06:43 AM

Quote:

Another quick update for all of you, I just got a 12m also so I will definitely be using that before the 16m.

Curious...

After coming on here and being cautioned about kite buying ...did you just go buy another kite without asking first about it..? or did you get some advice off-lline from elsewhere:puzzled:

average_newb - 10-7-2015 at 06:49 AM

I found it and it was in a time crunch so I bought it. I figured that the smaller would be better than the 16. And even if I couldn't use it I could do something else with it in the future. You are right that is definitely too far away. But although I am getting cheapish kites I don't think safety is something to cheap out on. And the trainer is a hq symphony, I know another semi cheap kite :/ but I figured it was big enough to teach me the amount of force adequately

abkayak - 10-7-2015 at 07:03 AM

you got the itch bad...but you have to slow down...we will try to help you keep $$$ in your pocket
dont buy old outdated stuff while we are asleep....plenty of good stuff avail on the cheap and then
theirs other stuff for sale that's really only good to cover the bbq...i hope you got something proper

average_newb - 10-7-2015 at 07:20 AM

Well it was on a deadline and I figured it would be better than a 16m. And if it still was bad than I could just use it in the future for something. And my trainer is an hq symphony and is a foil. I figured that it would give me a good enough feel for power even though it is only a 2 line. I'm not planning on doing anything until I am fully comfortable with the trainer. And yes @abkayak that is way too far but at the same time I don't think one lesson for safety reasons would be too much money. I'm sure lessons would cost much less than hospital bills

ssayre - 10-7-2015 at 07:45 AM

Transitioning from a symphony to a Lei. This ought to be interesting :evil:

Tried and true advice is learn a 3m quad line foil first. The Symphony isn't really a trainer IMO. Not enough power and only 2 line. You will learn a little bit about the power window but that's about it. I'd keep the LEI's in the bag until you learn on something big enough to drag you around (3m in 10-15ish winds) That symphony is a toy comparatively and won't teach you power management.

ssayre - 10-7-2015 at 07:56 AM

Symphony is a stunt foil. they size different than power kites. Similar to a snapshot. Here's a picture of my old 2.5 snapshot next to a true 3m power kite (hq beamer)

average_newb - 10-7-2015 at 07:56 AM

Ok so i have considered to possibly resell the 2 kites I bought and buy a newer year and what you all say is adequate. The problem I kept finding looking through ebay and ALL of the kitesurfing forums, like I keep saying the winds really aren't that strong and I would probably be kiting around 13mph or so normally. I weigh 165 and I need a kite that can support me in the low winds. Of course whenever you add a title such as"low wind" prices sky rocket and I just can't afford a low wind kite. The price range I would like to spend on the kite is 350 or less but of course I would go a little more. So how can I get a beginner kite that will work in light winds but somehow also at a low cost?

average_newb - 10-7-2015 at 08:00 AM

and if there no way I can afford anything adequate than I will have to wait and save money, but that means the itch will get strnger and stronger and stronger

flyguy0101 - 10-7-2015 at 08:44 AM

Newb- you seem to maybe have a few more brain cells then some if us, thats good! as for selling the kites- DO IT. Cut your loses, and ask questions on here. As others have said if it is pre-2006 sell them old depowers don't really depower that much and require a lot more wind (in general) then a decent smaller fixed bridle. Most of us wont bother getting on the water unless the wind is blowing 15+ and land works for most around 8+ mph. As others have said buy a decent 3m fixed bridle to learn and you will end up keeping it forever. Stop looking on ebay and start watching on here for some used kits. I am also self taught in crappy winds so its possible, but jumping the gun and buying the wrong stuff at first actually slowed my progression and cost me a fair chunk of change. As for wind- I can fly my little FB kites (3.5m) in winds as low as 5 mph- wont rip my arms off or pull me around but that type of "lull" flying will make you a much better kiter when you have real wind. So progress slowly, wear a helmet, and have fun also be realistic kiting is expensive which is why most of us are over 40. As for injuries or getting hurt, it will happen hopefully not serious but I have had kites "take" me to the ER twice in the last 6 years of kiting even after I knew what I was doing (chance fracture of my t11 last year)- so be aware and use the mush between the ears. yes I still kite and love it but you are playing with something you cannot see or control.
s

average_newb - 10-7-2015 at 08:54 AM

Does anyone ever sell any small kites like that. All of the new trainers that have at least three lines seem to be way too expensive for a kite i cant do anything special with. One question I have about the trainer is as long as I learn all the kite dynamics and what to do, and also fly it in stronger wind than do I really need to get a better trainer? I figured that as long as I learn to spread the power more or less than that is really all I truly need.

flyguy0101 - 10-7-2015 at 09:19 AM

My 3.5 rage is my go to kite in a buggy- no land speed records but have hit 32mph with it. I also have used it for landboarding. I will say though I use almost exclusively my arcs when I am doing any standing - ie skis or board. because I think it is easier and safer. BEC is up near Rochester and he skis on the lakes with his 3.5 all the time- he prefers it over depower- fwiw.
s
as for selling yeah you will see them pop up but you want to get a decent 3-3.5 meter 4 line on handles.

abkayak - 10-7-2015 at 10:31 AM

honestly you shouldn't sell that stuff to anyone else that doesnt understand how this works..hope it was cheap
you know how we will feel if we have to do this again...jusayin
whats the 12 anyway? maybe its not as bad as we are expecting

average_newb - 10-7-2015 at 10:36 AM

It's a rhino. I got them each for about 150 and they are all in great condition. Right now I'm just thinking that I'll just save them until I can safely learn to use them.

abkayak - 10-7-2015 at 10:59 AM

proper move...my 1st purchase was an 04 Slingshot Fuel 9m.. i replaced the chic loop and now feel im ready/able to fly it
been looking at that kite for 3yrs, put it up once w/ the lines attached wrong...most all of us make mistakes along the way
trick is to not make fatal ones...find a 3m/4line and learn to be a pilot, then move on from there..or the $$ and lessons
imo

skimtwashington - 10-7-2015 at 02:03 PM

Never make a decision based on time crunch...only on education from expert guidance. If deal is too good there's a reason for it.

People on PKF here can only help you if you listen...and they don't have too much contrary opinions to confuse you

Bladerunner - 10-7-2015 at 05:19 PM

FINALLY you answered my question PARTLY . I'll assume the 12m Rhino is also an 04. That it was the same seller and his rush was the BUMS RUSH.

In my opinion you are wasting money in your rush to buy cheap stuff! Ebay is where people go when they can't sell their stuff on a respectable kite forum!

NO 2004 kite is worth $150 even with the old bar and lines. Good luck trying to resell those kites at all. Please don't do what was done to you and sell them to an unsuspecting newb. I thought that telling you how I paid $1000 used for a similar kite and had trouble unloading it at $100 back in about 2009 would show proof of my mistakes. I wasted a LOT of money buying and having trouble selling gear at 1st. I hate to see somebody else wasting money.

Asking for and listening to advice on this forum was the changing point. I sold my Ebay shares and turned my back on them completely. ( search Jonesband ) Folks on here really want to help. Slow down and listen to their advice!

Have you pumped these things up? The bladders aren't going to last even if they hold now. If they hold air I say don't fly them so you can try to sell them that way. Holding air means holding it for 6 hours. Did he even include a pump? 04 pumps were junk.

Again I mention that you are absolutely going to need a kite assistant with these kites. That learning to assist with a big LEI is a learned skill of it's own. To go out with these kites and nobody to assist with ground handling would be a big mistake.

You don't own a trainer kite. You own a toy stunt foil. You are way off base thinking that a QUALITY 3m trainer kite doesn't offer you anything " special " . A 3m is just the perfect size to learn kite control on. Just big and powerful enough to perform like it's bigger brothers. Just small enough that you can force it to fly in light wind while being able to fly into stronger and stronger winds. I think that most of us on this forum would agree that starting out on the right trainer kite is priceless! The reason you see so few for re-sale is because most people hold on to them if they can afford to. You can buy and sell a QUALITY used trainer at a pretty minimal loss. As I see it you have already lost $300. $300 would have bought you a new quality trainer and you would be on the path to becoming the pilot you hope to be right now. If you have enough to buy a quality used trainer still I suggest you buy one and see what we mean. While you are mastering control of it you can work on selling off the stuff you have to fund your 1st proper depower LEI.

I suspect you are feeling a bit frustrated right now. We all understand. We were there to. The sad fact is that you have to work your way up in this sport. The fact that it isn't as easy as it looks is what makes becoming a kite pilot sooooo worth it! Keep up that enthusiasm. It's not easy on your own but that is a big part of what this forum tries to help with. You have a somewhat difficult goal. Like others have mentioned riding on water doesn't really work until you get about 12mph winds. Low wind riding isn't easy and not as rewarding as you may imagine? It isn't an impossible goal. It's just not a 1 step process.

It also sucks when money is tight in this sport. Buying and selling quality used gear is the best way to work up the ladder. Don't let anybody rush you into a deal if you aren't fully educated in what they are selling.

That said, when a good deal on a quality trainer comes up on here or other respectable forums they sell fast! So do your home work and know what type trainer you want.

ssayre - 10-7-2015 at 06:10 PM

i'm overposting tonight but damn that was a good post bladerunner. spot on

soliver - 10-7-2015 at 06:35 PM

Just curious, ... how old are you, Newb?... Don't mean to sound disrespectful, but you seem kinda young.

hiaguy - 10-7-2015 at 06:59 PM

At the risk of chiming in on a thread that's being covered by many that have more experience and talent than me...

There's another thread that I haven't seen mentioned here:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=28759#pid27...
It summarizes many of the issues that newcomers to the sport face, and makes some specific suggestions.

After 20 years with ripstop in the air, the first kite that really allowed me to learn to fly with power was a 3m PL Hornet. There are several kites in this size/price range, and some less expensive, that are great "first kites". You gotta learn to walk before you start running.

There are a few on this forum that sell kites retail. Look at their wares - it'll give you an idea of what "real" prices are like to buy new equipment. Trust them - they're here because they're welcome here. Then you'll also have an idea of what constitutes a "good deal" when the rest of us put our gear on the market.

When you're looking at used gear, look at:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=16272&p...
to get an idea of other's opinions of the seller.

Regardless of new or used, everyone here is concerned about helping you start safely.

And, most importantly, keep asking questions. We've all made the mistake that others can learn from - take advantage of our stupidity.

Welcome to the addiction :wee:

average_newb - 10-7-2015 at 10:06 PM

I'm 19 and about to be a junior in college. One more question, I would like to landboard also and was wondering even though everything is much harder such as the ground. Would learning on land be easier to do because it takes a smaller kite? And I wasn't planning to fly unless winds are at least 13 mph, because I realize below that would just be too hard to learn

average_newb - 10-7-2015 at 11:18 PM

Has anyone of you tried or heard how the PL uniq is. I'm now thinking about getting a 2.5 or 3.5 and just did my longboard with mountain stuff. Don't worry this time I'll try to listen to everyone's input

Windstruck - 11-7-2015 at 01:28 AM

Blade - I'm with ssayre - that was a very well stated and respectful submission. Boy, have we "old farts" sure made our share of mistakes!

Newb - I want to echo what has been said in terms of our overwhelming desire to help new folks such as yourself head down a tried and true path, not necessarily the tortuous paths so many of us started our journeys on. This isn't an age thing, just an experience level in this particular sport/hobby. I have a son a few years older than you and I can see a lot of his "youthful exuberance" in you. :thumbup:

One small point to consider. I've read on a number of your posts that you seem to be equating water as somehow being safer than land (softness of water versus hardness of land, etc.). I would caution you to reconsider this logic. I'm very pleased to see you reconsidering putting up your big kites in the water at this point, alone no less. I had visions of you being plucked up in the air, crashing down and sinking to the bottom never to be seen again. You can have a blast on land controlling a smaller kite that has lots of pull but not much lift. A helmet, knee and elbow pads and an empty soccer field and you are loaded for bear!

indigo_wolf - 11-7-2015 at 04:13 AM

Quote: Originally posted by average_newb

Has anyone of you tried or heard how the PL uniq is. I'm now thinking about getting a 2.5 or 3.5 and just did my longboard with mountain stuff. Don't worry this time I'll try to listen to everyone's input

BigMike has posted two threads on the Uniq Quad

ATB,
Sam

Windstruck - 11-7-2015 at 04:48 AM

Newb - I missed that you are looking into the PL Uniq kites at a couple of sizes. A couple of us have bought the Uniq and quite abit has been written about them on PKF. I did a short head to head comparison of a 4.5M Uniq with a 4M NS3:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30673

I have not had the chance to try the Uniq yet as an engine to pull me around, and so far I've only flown the Uniq static. If you go the Uniq route I would suggest going with the "quad" model, which like its name implies is a four line kite flown best off of handles. The other two Uniq models are two and three line versions and I wouldn't recommend going in that direction based on where you want to head in this sport.

One thing that is really nice about the Uniq is that it is a "single skin" kite. This will have two advantages for you. First, as a single skin kite you don't have to worry about internally exploding the kite when you crash it into the ground nose down. This will likely happen a lot at first just as it did for most of us just starting out (I did this plenty of times slowly moving up the skill curve). Second, single skins pack up super small making them highly portable.

There are some downsides for the Uniq noted in early impressions in various PKF threads, supported by "mj" who has more experience with this kite than any of us (if you use the search function in PKF and search for "Uniq" you will find quite a lot). Primarily, the early rub against this kite in its 1st generation is the relative smallness of its wind window. This means virtually nothing as a static flyer, but as a pulling engine this could be problematic. My personal early impression with this kite is that it's pulling force dies down at the edges of the wind window. This will likely make it harder to work upwind when trying to tack back to where you started. If you have a perfect square field or ideal cross winds this is probably a non issue, but what you will likely find is the need to ride in places where the wind just doesn't blow the way you wish it did. What ends up happening a lot of times is you fly down one way on your field and struggle to get back on your return journey. The more narrow the wind window is for your kite engine the more difficult this return journey becomes.

acampbell - 11-7-2015 at 05:34 AM

Quote: Originally posted by average_newb

. The kite is old but it is a 5th line kite meaning it will fully depower.

There is an old saying..... The only fully depowered kite is the one folded up and locked in the trunk of your car.

T-Dot - 11-7-2015 at 05:56 AM

Speaking as a newb myself and so far only using a 3m PL Hornet, I can't imagine what the pull would be like on a 12 or 16m kite. I've only been out a handful of times and only twice in what I would consider higher winds (sorry I have no gauge yet on what actual wind speeds I'm flying in). On those couple occasions I was getting my ass pulled around (and I'm not a light guy) the soccer field pretty good when the kite was in the power zone.

Just be safe. I can see how things can get out of hand real quick if you aren't careful. Before I started I watched a bunch of kite fails on youtube which put a bit of fear in me

ssayre - 11-7-2015 at 06:07 AM

If board sports are your end game. The most affordable, accessible, possibly the easiest if you have skate experience is longboard kiting on pavement. 3-4 meter nasa kite on 5meter lines and a craigslist longboard is all you need to enter motion nirvana. You will need to learn kite control before you step on the board but you don't need a lot of power or expensive equipment. I don't recommend air time on pavement though

ssayre - 11-7-2015 at 06:10 AM

I was using roughly $300 worth of equipment in this video and in 12 mph wind and I'm 240#

no wind and nothing but rain lately or I would be doing it right now instead of typing this post.

Windstruck - 11-7-2015 at 07:05 AM

Sean - I am so glad you just posted that video! I've seen you boarding before on pavement. Everytime I see you doing it I always think it looks so easy. I know it is you that makes it look easy and it is me that is having an easy time watching you make it look easy. Nonetheless, you look good doing it.

What I was pleased about this time was the back half of the video where you were buggying on pavement with short lines and your NASA. Sweet! My small-kite NASA quiver has been expanding and I've thought of getting their 5M lines to cruise around with on my buggy on pavement for kicks for short time slot sessions.

Question for you - i was watching your video on an iPad and couldn't tell what you had in your hands. I'm assuming a bar, not handles, is that right? I've got the bar that Born supplies with its chicken loop and third line setup which I thought would work but is a bit overkill for this job as I wouldn't think I'd do this harnessed in (one more time consuming step). What bar do you use? Is it worth getting their "Street Bar" in addition to the one I already own? I don't see needing to utilize the "depower" feature in this setting so the adjustability for the 3rd central line seems more adjustment than I need here.

T-Dot - EXACTLY!!!! This is what we've all been trying to say in various ways in this thread. My first traction kite was the P-3 by Prism (3 sq M) a pretty simple but nice kite that could be flown with either two or four lines depending on how you set up the bridle. I'm 6ft and just over 200 lbs. and my son is about 6'4" and is a "corn fed" 250. Both of us have been dragged around a soccer field (him on his back which I have to say looked pretty funny even if he didn't think so). Point being exactly what you were saying. Even a couple of square meters of ripstop up in the air can completely overpower larger men in an instant. I've been pretty much pulled out of my socks a couple of times by my old P-4, feeling like Charlie Brown on the pitchers mound when he gets shelled from the plate. The stakes only increase as the square meters of kite increase. An older generation kite in the 12-16 M range as was originally discussed in this thread could easily end up wrecking your whole year if not worse.

gemini6kl - 11-7-2015 at 07:17 AM

Landboarding is alot eaiser to learn than kitesurfing and in my opinion safer also. I started learning on water and then eventually went over to landboarding and have been doing it eversince. You can use a much smaller kite to get moving which kind of eliminates some of the risk of using a big kite and its eaiser to set up and you can kite all year. It takes alot of power to get moving on the water and most folks dont realise that the kite really needs to support your weight to move in the water and thats alot of power if you dont handle it properly as it will throw you around. I remember it was so frustrating trying to learn on water with the old fashioned C kites as they really didnt have much depower and you were thrown around. It was a really scary time to learn. We have all had that excitement when we started, just be safe and make sure you fly the correct sized kite for the wind speed, As newbie dont fly on very windy days or instead fly a very small kite thats one of the most important things. A 3m foil would be perfect to start on the landboard. As for the 2 kites u bought sell the 16m and keep the 12m. Get a good 4 line 3m foil and get used to the power of that, then u can move on to putting up the 12 m in low wind , just enough to have it stay up. you will need a trained helper offcourse to launch and land the kite. everything will be cool dude , just don't put the kite up in strong winds, (meaning anything over 15mph) adn make sure u are aware of the weather forecast for the day so u dont get surprised by any sudden change in the winds. My first lei was a 12m and it was a big change in power from my foils, but luckily a big kite like that moves alot slower so i didnt have any issues. the only problems came when i flew it on a windy day as a big kite like that will put the FEAR of loss of life or limb in you real quick on a windy day . Fly away from people, most of us learned on our own with friendly input from others, stay safe and goodluck .

ssayre - 11-7-2015 at 07:20 AM

Thanks Steve I was using the born kite street bar. I used to use a Peter Lynn kite killer lengthened with a piece of para cord attached to one side of the yellow third line that's up form the bar. It's not immediately obvious how to hook up the kite killer. I'll dig up a picture somewhere. I've made a wooden bar that worked well while I was waiting on my street kite bar from Germany. Yes, it's very convenient for quick sessions. No harness no fuss. Once I was confident the kite killer became an annoyance and was eliminated making it even more easy and the third line irrelevant.

average_newb - 11-7-2015 at 07:24 AM

I actually already longboard and am comfortable at higher speeds so I think that's the way to go from here. Thanks so much guys

Windstruck - 11-7-2015 at 07:26 AM

Now we're talking! That makes me very happy to read Newb. With that part of the learning curve behind you you should be having fun in no time. If you are comfortable saying, what is your name? Been calling you Newb too much!

average_newb - 11-7-2015 at 07:39 AM

Alex! Hopefully you'll be heading from me for a while now that I won't kill myself on the water!!

gemini6kl - 11-7-2015 at 07:45 AM

Interestingly enough another humorous story i remebr flying my 17m cabrinha Lei back in 2003 and sending it hard for a jump and feeling like God himself was smiling while he lifting me up to the heavens but also flying my 14m lei overpower and thinking the devil was trying to killl me tht day and hanging on for dear life. LOL. so long story short its all about the size of the kite and the windspeed my friend.

ssayre - 11-7-2015 at 07:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by gemini6kl

Interestingly enough another humorous story i remebr flying my 17m cabrinha Lei back in 2003 and sending it hard for a jump and feeling like God himself was smiling while he lifting me up to the heavens but also flying my 14m lei overpower and thinking the devil was trying to killl me tht day and hanging on for dear life. LOL. so long story short its all about the size of the kite and the windspeed my friend.

I know what you mean. not on water but similar scenario on land.

Alex, you might end up on the water or stay land. For me the most challenging part was figuring what kites, what sizes and what activity to do in the beginning. It took me a year buying and selling used to figure it out. sounds daunting but learning is half the fun

Windstruck - 11-7-2015 at 10:07 AM

Sean - thanks for answering this little "thread within a thread" about your "buggy in the street" approach. Based on what you are saying I am going to go ahead a place an order from Big Mike for the Born street bar and 5M triple line set. While this is a $100 additional investment, it will open up a whole new set of places I can go near where I live. I live 10-20 minutes drive from three major ski resorts each of which have cavernous parking lots that sit largely open during the non- snowy months, not to mention a bunch of public schools that also have parking lots laying open for the plucking on weekends, etc.

Whoop! I'm excited!! :wee:

ssayre - 11-7-2015 at 10:16 AM

Exactly! That was my thinking. Turning is different on short lines. Street bar and lines are relatively inexpensive and pay back with being able to kite more often. You can't slide to slow down so putting the kite high then behind as a parachute works. Caution advised on that maneuver til you get it down.

Windstruck - 11-7-2015 at 10:27 AM

Sean - I hear you loud and clear. OBEs on pavement could leave a more "lasting impression" on me then my 3-4 OBE's I've had on grass which from a pain perspective were non-events. I will most certainly wear a helmet, knee and shoulder pads, and gloves at a minimum for a while until I get the hang of things on the ultra hard pack.

I had already been thinking through the parachute deceleration move you just described. I had an abrupt (is there any other kind?) CBVOBE about a month ago with my 12M Peak2 in a soccer field. That's short for a Code Brown Vertical Out of Buggy Experience. Like we are talking about here I mistakenly let the kite get behind me when I was rolling fast in what suddenly became the opposite direction. I wisely pulled the bar in (ever the wise man) and whoosh, up I went. :D

I just placed my order with Big Mike. As I thought, exactly $100 bucks.

Bladerunner - 11-7-2015 at 02:35 PM

Woo Hoo,

I love how this tread has warped! Going from a harness and bar question to this.
We are going to set you up for more fun than you imagined real cheap!

Here is the kite you want .

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=30692

the 3m Hornet will be the perfect place to start on your budget.

My 1st real riding experience ( after 3 lesson on water ) was using rollerblades on tarmac with a 3m kite. Go with what you know. If you already long board then. ... Long board and short lines is a good way to start if you can find a location with good wind. Talk to Angus about tossing in some short lines cheap. Q-line is nice, if he still has some.

I was extremely frustrated and injured trying to learn the board part of the sport on water. Never having done a board sport before.
I knew that I had the principles of kite control down but was almost ready to give up. While looking into snow kiting I decided to go my own route and take my 3m ( + every pad I owned ) to a big open parking lot with my daily ride, my rollerblades. It was like I had been doing it all my life ! I never fell ( that 1st day ) and had no issues staying upwind. I come from a skate / ski background so am somewhat of a natural adding the kite. I am picking up on the board side but think I'm too old for it to ever feel natural.

hiaguy - 11-7-2015 at 04:09 PM

:thumbup:

+1 Blade! That's the kite I started on, and Josh too.
I still have it and use it for static days.
Alex, I'm sure you'll love it too.

abkayak - 11-7-2015 at 05:46 PM

I got one of them...few weeks ago it was blowing 25+ and that's what went up for bugging
And I lived thru it

Windstruck - 11-7-2015 at 05:48 PM

Any other older guy on this thread feel just a whee bit as if we did some collective fatherhood mentoring here?

I know I do. My oldest of two kids is a 21 year old son as mentioned before and I saw some of him in you, fine young Alex. Like my son (heck, like ME) you plunged into something that looked cool on the surface but had lurking real dangers hidden in its nooks and crannies.

Unlike me so often through my life I can hardly count, you had the good sense to seek help and eventually listen to that help. Good on you!

That Hornet is a great call! A nice smaller FB may well become a dear old friend over the years.

Please don't take away from a post such as this any sniff of condescension because it's not there. All of us sprung on you with a common goal of safely and intelligently heading you down a path to kiting bliss, something we are all passionate about.

That Hornet will do you proud. :cool:

Bladerunner - 11-7-2015 at 06:23 PM

So cool that the Hornet came up when it did! :wee:

NOW you are on track to becoming a true pilot! :cool:

NOW looking for a good ( used ) harness is a smart next step. This introduces a new issue. Waist harness is the harness of choice for kitesurf and seat harness is preferred for land. You have plenty of time to research and shop while you master the Hornet unhooked.

Notice how Blade rage is looking at things he can make with the material in his big old vintage kite rather than unload it on somebody. People have been doing that with pre 05 kites for a long time now.

hiaguy - 11-7-2015 at 06:40 PM

Steve, who you calling "older"?
But, yes.
(And I gotta think that Angus was rummaging around, looking for just the right item to post. Well done dude!)

Windstruck - 11-7-2015 at 06:55 PM

Come on now Howard, old is just a number, you know that. :cool:

Pretty much by definition we are all big kids on this forum!!! I know you are.

average_newb - 11-7-2015 at 06:59 PM

Do you know what blade rage doing with his old kites or if he has a thread about it because if it is a dig thing I would love to know what because I'm a diy kind of guy and if I can't sell those back than I'll have to find something.

ssayre - 11-7-2015 at 07:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

I followed this very same advice from bladerunner and it served me well, however, He is on the coast and I think generally has clean wind (I could be wrong about clean wind) but I would add that if your inland and have inconsistent gusty wind then I would only use a harness and strop with a fixed bridle kite in wind that is at the bottom end of the particular kite's wind range. The spookiest kiting I've done was trying to hook myself to a fixed bridle kite. Point is if your inland, I would try and get to depower as fast as you can to buffer the gusts. It will feel more safe and is more safe. Once you get good at flying the 3 meter you can start pushing higher winds with it and get dragged all over for fun but I would not practice being hooked to it except for lighter wind. Don't know if that makes sense but I sort of feel like most advice is get a 3 meter then the next advice is use it with a harnes which (IMO) is one of the more dangerous activities one can do with a kite (hook in with a fixed bridle)

ssayre - 11-7-2015 at 07:15 PM

To this day, I don't hook in with any fixed bridle kite nor do a lot of people on here. I like them and still use them for traction but I don't hook myself to them for any real power. I might static fly in light wind once in awhile hooked in

Not to confuse you but I do hook in with Nasa Star kites which technically have fixed bridles but they behave very differently

hiaguy - 11-7-2015 at 07:23 PM

Yup. Go ahead... tell me to go fly a kite. Please.

a_n - it's no dig. The naish is a monster kite that anyone without years of experience should keep away from.

ssayre - 11-7-2015 at 07:26 PM

Quote: Originally posted by hiaguy

Yup. Go ahead... tell me to go fly a kite. Please.

a_n - it's no dig. The naish is a monster kite that anyone without years of experience should keep away from.

Wrong thread howard, are you trying to drive and post or something? :lol:

hiaguy - 11-7-2015 at 08:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Originally posted by hiaguy

Yup. Go ahead... tell me to go fly a kite. Please.

a_n - it's no dig. The naish is a monster kite that anyone without years of experience should keep away from.

Wrong thread howard, are you trying to drive and post or something? :lol:

:puzzled:
Nope - right thread.
First line was to Steve/Windstruck regarding being old (8:55 pm); second was to Alex/aveage_newb regarding the monster Naish that Blade rage has in another thread (8:59 pm).
Now back to our regular unscheduled program... :lol:

PS: 87 days to WBB :wee:

Windstruck - 11-7-2015 at 09:02 PM

ssayre - 11-7-2015 at 09:13 PM

Whoops :D

Bladerunner - 12-7-2015 at 03:26 PM

Folks are right. I need to clarify myself when suggesting a harness.

Hooking in with a fixed bridle and simple strop can be dangerous. When overpowered it can be difficult if not impossible to push out of your spreader hook. Slightly less an issue with smaller foils. I never hook in to FB when pushing it or conditions dictate.

If you are planning to progress to depower then learning to take the power through your core will be essential. Using a harness can extend your fly time greatly just by using it to rest up. Get a feel for taking the power from the front lines through your core and steering / slowing the kite with the back lines. ( sort of how depower works ). After scudding down wind try hooking in and walking back with the kite off to one side. Get so you can do that without needing to look at the kite much.

I just realized I am telling you to practice " the walk of shame " ! :duh:
Trust me, we have ALL done the walk of shame. May as well learn to look good doing it!:bigok:

elpopp - 4-8-2016 at 09:08 AM

Since the topic was about North kites...anyone tried to buy kite online? any suggestions of a good site with North Kites? I googled surf-store.c anyone with some experience with them?

ssayre - 4-8-2016 at 09:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by elpopp

Since the topic was about North kites...anyone tried to buy kite online? any suggestions of a good site with North Kites? I googled surf-store.c anyone with some experience with them?

Are you baiting us for a mr obvious joke? Ok, I'll play. Try googling North Kites

elpopp - 5-8-2016 at 08:17 AM

Thanks for playing..:duh:

Bladerunner - 5-8-2016 at 03:44 PM

I had to play. I googled what you did and got surfstore.com. They sell North Kites. :P

I don't get the game? Are you pimping for this site? :barf:

riffclown - 5-8-2016 at 04:30 PM

Why else would he resurrect a year old topic as the first post? Reported..

SurfStoreDotCom - 23-8-2016 at 02:55 AM

Hi I would be happy to assist you. Check our page, contact us, you can do it via facebook or email or even here. We offer ION and NP wetsuits, and currently there are some awesome deals on kiting gear. :cool:

Rgds

abkayak - 23-8-2016 at 06:45 AM

im not checking..Rgds
but did reread...lota stuff went on here