Power Kite Forum - My new ride! The PTW Superbug II

My new ride! The PTW Superbug II

robinsonpr - 11-7-2015 at 01:58 PM

Finally got some pics of my new ride, the awesome PTW Superbug II!

And here it is next to my flexi for scale (which is now going on sale!)

John Holgate - 11-7-2015 at 03:12 PM

Nice one!! The difference in scale is hilarious! The Superbug II looks like one hell of an impressive ride :thumbup:

soliver - 11-7-2015 at 03:16 PM

SWEEEEEET!!!...

I'm guessing you can adjust the ride height by rotating the back axle?

robinsonpr - 11-7-2015 at 03:18 PM

Yeah rotating the axle adjusts height!

3shot - 11-7-2015 at 03:43 PM

Good Lord! Yeah bud..... Now that's a buggy upgrade!!! Awesome :cool:

ssayre - 11-7-2015 at 04:03 PM

Pretty wild! How many of those did he make? Thanks for taking comparison pictures. That puts it in terms I can relate to.

ColinW - 11-7-2015 at 04:06 PM

Now THAT is what I need. Forget about sitting hunched up with my knees around my chest on that baby.
Beauty ride!
Congrats.
colin

RedSky - 11-7-2015 at 04:06 PM

:D funny. I love the pose. Wassup.

hiaguy - 11-7-2015 at 04:11 PM

Looks especially good without a knee brace!
Enjoy!

acampbell - 11-7-2015 at 04:27 PM

Now that's a beast! And made by one of the best. Tow the little one as an escape pod.

abkayak - 11-7-2015 at 05:54 PM

:thumbup:

...my motorcycle is smaller, I feel totally inadequate

Windstruck - 11-7-2015 at 06:07 PM

Wow!!! So very happy for you! Photos are like buggy porn for a group like this. Super cool how the rear axle height adjustment plays out.

That's not a knife. That's a knife! http://youtu.be/01NHcTM5IA4

:Ange09:

robinsonpr - 12-7-2015 at 12:34 AM

One of a kind ssayre!

Thanks for all the comments, I'm well chuffed to be the new owner.

The front end is awesome. Back axle is very well made but I have had problems with it slipping round inside the clamps in spite of tightening the bolts up as tight as possible. I've tried a layer of gaffa tape to give it some grip but that didn't work. Maybe try and get some thin rubber around the axle.

we are two countries seperated by a common language...

skimtwashington - 12-7-2015 at 02:21 AM

Quote:

I'm well chuffed..

(very pleased):D

bug is a monster. Who would like to be infected with this 'superbug'? :rolleyes:

RedSky - 12-7-2015 at 05:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by robinsonpr

One of a kind ssayre!

Thanks for all the comments, I'm well chuffed to be the new owner.

The front end is awesome. Back axle is very well made but I have had problems with it slipping round inside the clamps in spite of tightening the bolts up as tight as possible. I've tried a layer of gaffa tape to give it some grip but that didn't work. Maybe try and get some thin rubber around the axle.

Try using self adhesive skateboard grip tape on both the axle and the inside clamp. I use it on the foot pegs.

robinsonpr - 12-7-2015 at 06:30 AM

Oooo good idea Mr Sky, I'll give that a go!

ssayre - 12-7-2015 at 06:33 AM

Quote: Originally posted by robinsonpr

I had suspected it was, that makes it even better. I'm in commercial roofing and I used pieces of EPDM or rubber membrane wrapped around my side rails where I clamped my back rest on. It hasn't slipped a bit with plenty of use. I think that might work but there's probably going to be a lot more force on your axle clamps than my back rest clamps.

robinsonpr - 12-7-2015 at 08:04 AM

Yeah unfortunately plenty of force on the back axle with my fat ass bouncing around in the seat at (hopefully) 40mph+

lasrocas - 12-7-2015 at 09:42 AM

hi robinsonpr ,
does your flexi have standard barrow wheels or are they midis?
if midis do you find them better than standard ?
had my first outing on a beach yesterday and found the barrows sank in the sand a lot
only had the flexi a few months , got it from our mutual friend E
like it a lot but seeing that beast of yours had me drooling.
craig

abkayak - 12-7-2015 at 10:07 AM

Those are midis...I find they help u float a bit but no matter they aren't meant for the soft stuff like the bigfoots

robinsonpr - 12-7-2015 at 10:09 AM

Hey Craig, they are midis on my flexi.

Like you I'm fairly new to it. The midis were much better on sand than barrows but still sank a bit in the softer stuff. Good on the hard pack though.

Can't wait to try my new monster on the beach!

RedSky - 12-7-2015 at 12:21 PM

I stumbled upon some skate paper in the garage and rubbed two pieces together. It doesn't work!
So I would suggest using skate paper on the axle and some thin rubber sheeting on the clamps. Together they will grip.

robinsonpr - 12-7-2015 at 01:28 PM

Thanks Tom! I'll see if I can fit both in!! I got some rubber but it's not that thin, about 2mm thick. I'll have to look for some thinner stuff...

Windstruck - 12-7-2015 at 02:03 PM

If you looking for sheets of really thin rubber I might suggest exercise bands. Gyms often have brightly colored rubber that when flattened out are about 6" wide or so formed into a loop sort of like a large rubber band. Not sure on its exact thickeness but it seems pretty thin and woudd likely be something you could wrap around the axle for extreme fixation.

Good luck!

John Holgate - 12-7-2015 at 04:11 PM

Quote:

had my first outing on a beach yesterday and found the barrows sank in the sand a lot

midi's will do a little better, but if you're sinking in, you may need a lower tide or find some harder sand closer to the water. Even bigfoots will slow down when in the soft stuff. Get to know your local tide heights and how far either side of low tide you can ride on hard sand. On my local beach, I can usually get one and a half to two hours of buggying either side of a low tide providing it's less than .3m. Took me a little while to sort it all out. My first beach trip sounds a lot like yours.

Sorry for the thread veer!

PHREERIDER - 13-7-2015 at 06:50 AM

nice ! impressive ride indeed

robinsonpr - 14-7-2015 at 02:48 PM

Grrr...still getting axle slippage. Tried some skate grip tape stuck around the axle itself and then thin rubber inside the clamps. I think the rubber is moving around inside the clamp itself (not slipping around the axle).

It's a conundrum. I guess the only way to stop it rotating for sure would be some sort of locking pin but I don't like the sound of that, sounds a bit heavy handed.

Any other ideas on how to get this to hold fast!?

RedSky - 14-7-2015 at 02:58 PM

Sorry that the skate stuff isn't working. This may sound like a joke but isn't, you could try Velcro.
I hold my center caps with it and it is as next to impossible to twist and because of that I use just the hard hook stuff and throw the soft opposing loop stuff away as it makes it a little easier to remove the caps when I need to.

volock - 14-7-2015 at 03:04 PM

I'd think the main options/idea would be:

Sticking on removeable texture: ie Hockey grip tape (like used for wrapping the bottom end of your stick) or Skate Grip Tape or Velcro
Spray on texture: ie glue / glue with sand in it / etc
Sanding to roughen the surface
Drilling holes for clevis pin setup

Personally with the forces involved, I'd be shocked if anything but the bottom option worked longterm. Were it me, I'd probably go with drilling small holes, through the axle at 90 degress of each other, to get you the highest, medium and lowest orientation of the axle, and then one hole that will line up properly with those straight through the axle clamps, and use a small clevis pin for holding it. It'd stop the rotation, and still leave some of the benefits of the axle design. As I'd assume it's all stainless, while no holes is preferable, the small holes I don't think would expand the corrosion risk much.

robinsonpr - 14-7-2015 at 03:06 PM

Worth a try! So the hard stuff stuck around the Axle AND inside the clamp? And bin the soft side?

robinsonpr - 14-7-2015 at 03:12 PM

And thanks volock, I suspect you're right about the forces involved and a pin setup being the only sure fire fix. I'll take that as the last resort if non of the other suggestions "stick".

And yeah it's all stainless. Don't fancy my chances of accurately drilling by hand though!

PHREERIDER - 14-7-2015 at 03:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by volock

I'd think the main options/idea would be:

Sticking on removeable texture: ie Hockey grip tape (like used for wrapping the bottom end of your stick) or Skate Grip Tape or Velcro
Spray on texture: ie glue / glue with sand in it / etc
Sanding to roughen the surface
Drilling holes for clevis pin setup

definitely drill and pin, ample size as well . one at favorite setting.

RedSky - 14-7-2015 at 03:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by robinsonpr

Worth a try! So the hard stuff stuck around the Axle AND inside the clamp? And bin the soft side?

The hard stuff is stronger, withstanding the torsional forces without tearing but first try the Velcro as it was intended then try hook on hook.

Get down to homebase. They sell the wide stuff.

volock - 14-7-2015 at 05:04 PM

If drilling with a drill press, I'd say make sure to use a V-Block, worth it's weight in gold for drilling tubing. Not much experience off one for drilling that stuff in something I'd care that much about, so I'll leave it to PopEye or one of the other experts around here to advise.

soliver - 14-7-2015 at 05:48 PM

I was thinking it wouldn't hurt to check in with Popeye... he may have a suggestion since he MADE the thing.

Hey, robinsonpr, post us up some detail pics of what the clamp looks like... not only am i curious, but it also may help us visualize a possible solution.

bigE123 - 15-7-2015 at 12:53 AM

That is one beast you have there!! :thumbup:

Not sure about packing the clamp I think there is just too much force with the cantered axle ends, first thought is pin it, but drilling SS, may need a fabricator to do that for you. Two holes in the axle would give you three positions high, low and a mid setting.

robinsonpr - 15-7-2015 at 01:41 AM

Popeye is out of the building game now. What a loss! I did get in touch with him about the slippage, he said wrap some gaffa tape around the axle

That's what it had when I got it from the previous owner. It was all worn and chewed up but new stuff didn't help.

E you're gonna have to explain the 2 holes, 3 positions :puzzled: :yes:

I'll post a pic of the clamps later today.

Thanks all!

robinsonpr - 15-7-2015 at 01:45 AM

Other alternative...just set the axle at it's lowest position and pull the seat straps up tighter so my ass isn't dragging on the ground. Simple! But has the disadvantage of having to have the seat 2-3 inches higher, so losing the security of the super high side rails...

bigE123 - 15-7-2015 at 01:54 AM

With the axle at it's highest, drill one hole through the clamp top to bottom through the axle as well. You can then rotate the axle 180 deg and you now have two positions where you can put a pin through highest and lowest. Rotate the axle 90 deg, drill through the clamp hole and make another hole in the axle, you now have a mid position as well....... simples :D

bigE123 - 15-7-2015 at 01:55 AM

Or just loose some weight lard @rse :D :D :D

robinsonpr - 15-7-2015 at 01:56 AM

Oh yeah :D :D

robinsonpr - 15-7-2015 at 12:11 PM

Here's the rear axle clamps:

PHREERIDER - 15-7-2015 at 12:27 PM

nice shot. drill and pin same size as bolts , find a good angle away from fixed weld .

clamp all together tight, right where you want it---> drill it small to large with it all clamped really can't mess it up. Don't let it slip!

simple easy effective , good stuff man

robinsonpr - 15-7-2015 at 12:38 PM

Don't fancy my chances of drilling that stainless...gonna need some proper hardcore pillar drill isn't it? And somehow get the frame into it!?

Windstruck - 15-7-2015 at 02:26 PM

Robinsonpr - pictures speak 1000 words. Great photos. I'd been waiting to weigh in to see them.

If you were American I'd now be saying "Whoa Cowboy"! Please put that drill bit away. Not saying all those excellent drill tips wouldn't do the trick, but why go NUCLEAR before you've exhausted NEGOTIATIONS?

Now that we've seen the photos I bet I'm not alone in thinking of suggesting to you RedSky's thought voiced earlier in the thread and go VELCRO. Not the flimsy stuff that you see on clothing, but the industrial strength stuff you can buy at a large hardware store. What I'm talking about can be seen here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001O6T2ZS

This sort of Industrial-Strength VELCRO can be obtained in a near infinite variety of sizes and profiles (thickness). It comes as a sticky tape. I'd want to buy it at a brick and mortar store versus online because if it were me I'd want to hold it in my hands to judge if it would fit in the space that forms in between the outside of the axle and the inside of the clamp. Since the clamps bolt down I suspect there would be space to put something such as this in there.

A further thought is I'd be putting the hooks on the axle and stuff the hooks connect with on the inside of the clamp. You will be dealing with a "convex" surface issue on the axle and a "concave" issue on the inside of the clamp. I'd be examining the VELCRO to make sure the hook and pile sides would still work being flexed into these convex and concave shapes and still intertwine properly for this fix to hold. If the hooks and what they hook into can't lock in place then this design won't work and you'll have two slippery pieces of plastic tape in there and it will be more prone to slippage than not having it in there at all.

It may well be that the super thick VELCRO I showed in the link is too much for this application and that some of their lighter grade material will suffice (not all the way down to the flimsy stuff that holds a jacket cuff closed, but thinner than the maxed out stuff. VELCRO is INCREDIBLY strong and is specifically designed not to shear once interconnected, exactly what you are looking for inside that clamp.

Good luck! We're all rooting for you. It is an absolutely beautiful buggy and we all want you enjoying it!

PHREERIDER - 15-7-2015 at 02:28 PM

getting the set up in a press, that would be a difficult.

mark, punch it, fresh bits, keep it square with suitable pilot, then go with the finish size.

if the axle is solid, which would surprise me, could make things somewhat more challenging , a drill jig clamp would make things even easier and indeed precise a bit overkill imho.

i would totally phree hand that, < 20MIN total. you could tap it if you liked, but i like quick pins, its fast easy tool free handling.

robinsonpr - 15-7-2015 at 02:38 PM

Thanks Steve! Yeah I deffo don't want to go nuclear before trying other options. Velcro will be my next try. Only thing is the OD of the axle is very close to the ID of the clamps. I guess when it was built the intention was that nothing would be in between. Even with just a layer of thick gaffa tape it was a real struggle to get the clamps closed enough to get the nut and bolt through.

I'll keep you posted once I've tried some of the other options!

robinsonpr - 15-7-2015 at 02:41 PM

Phree! My phreehand is not as trained as yours. The axle isn't solid though, so maybe doable if the other options strike out!

John Holgate - 15-7-2015 at 02:46 PM

Quote:

Even with just a layer of thick gaffa tape it was a real struggle to get the clamps closed enough to get the nut and bolt through.

While you're at the hardware store grabbing some velcro, grab some longer bolts too. I'd hazard a guess that Pops has used stainless bolts, (unless you mean you can't actually get the clamp close enough to line the holes up?) but there's no reason you couldn't grab some cheap zinc ones just as a test.

Also, with the SS bolts/nuts, pop some sort of anti-seize on the threads before you do them up. I completely sheared the head off a brand new 8mm SS bolt recently when the nut seized. In a pinch, a quick dip in some linseed oil seems to do the job.

Windstruck - 15-7-2015 at 02:51 PM

:bisou:I was worried about that! If the fit is such that things are that tight (which doesn't surprise me or how would it hold) then I'd say two things. First, consider longer bolts. Second, go with Phree and others that are suggesting drill-and-pin approaches. If hockey tape isn't fitting then the Velcro certainly won't either.

(EDIT - John Holgate and I must have been typing at the same time. The advice changes if the bolt holes don't line up versus bolts too short. If they don't line up then no bolt length change matters and, my friend, you're going NUCLEAR.)

Drilling is sort of like cutting wood. You can always go back and cut it shorter. Somewhere earlier was a suggestion to drill the same size as your clamp's bolt holes. I'd start on the much smaller side in the hole department and drop a cotter pin through and clamp it down. The clamp must hold back a lot of shear force, just not quite enough. I suspect even a small cotter pin would take you the rest of the way and not really sacrifice the integrity of the axle. I'd hate to see you blast a giant hole through the axle to drop a bolt through. That would probably be thousands of times larger than you need to get you locked in.

3shot - 15-7-2015 at 03:54 PM

Agree with others. Drill and pin. Quality split point bits. Done..
You will just chase the issue with any other "sandwich" media. IMHO

soliver - 15-7-2015 at 04:14 PM

One option that hasn't been mentioned that I think may be worth considering is this,... if you grind the inside of the flat portion of the clamp (the part where the bolt goes through), you will get more clamping power out of the nut/bolt/clamp combo by giving the clamp more room to close... if that makes sense. I have done this fix to this style clamp (on a drill press ironically) and it did the trick.... I'll do an illustration and post it for a visual... this would be doing the same job as ADDING something to the outer diameter of the axle, but may be more effective.

I think this would be a better fix than trying to drill... I think there are too many variables to that that may end up doing more damage than good... I really think drilling the clamp and axle should be an absolute last option, and you might consider having it done by a metal fab shop.

1oldkid - 15-7-2015 at 04:20 PM

If you decide to drill, I would offer a suggestion:
Use a quality cutting fluid with the drills. I have used TapMagic and had good results. It will definitely help the drills cut...and you don't need a lot.

Oh, and WEAR EYE PROTECTION!

soliver - 15-7-2015 at 04:40 PM

The idea is that by grinding the interior of the flat pieces that the bolts pass through, you are creating a small gap between them giving your nut-bolt combo more room to move. Forgive the crudeness of the doodles... they are intended to be a cross section of the clamp. If its not obvious, by grinding, I mean using an angle grinder and probably take off as little as 1/32 of an inch (or 1 mm)... just enough to create a small gap.

Before:

After:

RedSky - 15-7-2015 at 05:33 PM

I hope drilling won't be necessary. We know Gaffer tape does work. Glen had about 10 sessions in total with this buggy without the axle slipping and I know he won't mind me saying that he is 16st. I'm 14st and it never slipped once with me. He had problems at the beginning trying to prevent slippage as you are now but he persevered. Getting the right tape thickness is crucial. Really tighten those nuts.

If you drill, then the idea of an infinitely adjustable axle is lost and I suspect it's resale value will diminish with it's single height setting. I still think you'll have an easier time with the velcro. Two pieces squashed together between your thumbs takes up very little space.

Windstruck - 15-7-2015 at 07:41 PM

As you go round and round with this problem one thing to keep in mind is that whatever you do please consider only doing it to ONE SIDE. I imagine you are 95% of the way to the Promised Land with nut tightening with the original design. I would think there is 0% chance that the axle will turn on the non-modified side once you successfully tape/Velcro/drill one side. For slippage to happen then you would need to spiral the axle along its long axis, and that just isn't going to happen, no matter how many stones you're packin' downstairs!

ColinW - 15-7-2015 at 08:08 PM

I'm with soliver.
Get the clamps to go tighter, and then maybe try and get some longditudinal friction. Anything I've seen with this kind of joint usually has lengthways grooves/stripes in the axle piece.
Even making something out of round would help.
I wouldn't want to drill the axle myself.
colin
p.s. I'm a carpenter and house builder, not an engineer nor a metal fabricator, so don't listen to a word I say.

soliver - 15-7-2015 at 08:21 PM

Thanks Colin, ... My idea is also presented under the assumption that there is no existing gap between the bolt plates on the clamp when they are on the axle,... but IMHO logic would dictate that if you can tighten the clamp beyond the circumference or OD of the axle it shouldn't slip.

To me drilling it seems like a bad idea... I would also just be concerned about possibly weakening the integrity of the axle by drilling multiple holes in the same area, not to mention the decreased value like RedSky was saying.

robinsonpr - 15-7-2015 at 09:25 PM

Thanks again all!

And nice drawings Spencer!

The clamps don't quite meet when done up tight, so grinding for more leverage won't help. Nice suggestion though. Does beg the question could they go tighter, but I know I would have only ended up stripping the thread.

Still a couple of options to try! As RedSky says, the previous owner managed to nail it with some tape and he is a much heavier unit than me!

I'm sure I'll get there one way or another! :D

Kober - 15-7-2015 at 10:22 PM

Sweet .....

bigE123 - 16-7-2015 at 11:23 AM

Whoa there Paul! Good pic in fact where I would start is....... a wire brush, get the inside of that bracket clean, it'll give max contact area between the two surfaces, if there is a gap when the bracket is closed up, give it a bit more, SS bolts are not just going to strip that easily, get a decent socket on it with a bar or better still, check the max torque of the SS bolts and use a torque wrench.

robinsonpr - 16-7-2015 at 11:25 AM

Yes to be fair I was using mechano spanners :o

Brant - 22-7-2015 at 08:56 PM

At work we use friction wrenches every day on steel and stainless fittings. If the wrench slips, our secret weapon is good quality emery cloth. We usually use 2 or three strips of 3/4" cloth, run lengthways on the rod, with the abrasive side against the rod. Something around 180-220 grit seems to work the best. A 2" friction wrench will slip without the cloth, but a 200 lb guy can bounce on the end of a 3' long snipe once you put the cloth in. Should be worth a try anyways? Make sure it's decent emery cloth though, as the cheap stuff won't hold up. Wouldn't hurt to clean both surfaces with a piece before you tried either (sand lengthwise of the shaft, not around it). Every little bit helps. Also of note, you'll have to use new pieces whenever you adjust your axle, but a roll should last you quite a while.

If you do end up having to drill holes, I second the cutting fluid remark, makes a huge difference. Almost as important as SAFETY GLASSES when drilling in steel. Good luck!

robinsonpr - 22-7-2015 at 09:08 PM

Thanks for the suggestion Brant! I've got something similar all rigged up and ready to try, but I've used this extra grippy skate grip tape, stuck directly around the axle. Seems to hold well, Just need some wind to test it in the field!

robinsonpr - 25-7-2015 at 09:37 AM

Yeeeehaaar!

Sorted! Plan E worked a treat...cleaned up both surfaces, grip tape stuck to the axle. Been out for a couple of hours today and it hasnt moved at all 😊

Windstruck - 25-7-2015 at 10:02 AM

:bigok:

popeyethewelder - 31-7-2015 at 12:19 PM

Hi guys, thank you all for giving all your options to rectify this problem, and most of them are probably problem solvers...

I never had an issue with the axle slipping, but it was brand new then and I am only 12stone, I would like to give you another option

If you say there is a gap between the plates, then yes try some 12mm zinc coated bolts first, if they were not enough to close the clamps, try opening the holes out to fit 16mm bolts, that will give you much more grunt to tighten up, when all said and done, you must only need a minuscule amount of extra clamping force to secure the axle.

robinsonpr - 31-7-2015 at 12:39 PM

All sorted Carl, I stuck a layer of grip tape around the axle where the clamps are. Tight as a ducS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s chuff now and didn't move a millimetre during a 2 hour session.

Meanwhile I will also try and drop a few pounds off my ever expanding gut

Man that buggy is solid, and such a smooth ride, I love it.

Thanks for the support!!

Paul

popeyethewelder - 1-8-2015 at 10:25 AM

Record for that buggy is 57.40mph btw....something for you to aim for

Windstruck - 1-8-2015 at 10:27 AM

Steady on Paul, steady on.... Let's try and keep it under 50, shall we? :evil:

robinsonpr - 1-8-2015 at 11:10 AM

Definitely under 50 Steve!

I don't think I'll be going anywhere near 57mph with my kites Carl but I'll see what I can do!

My fastest to date is 38mph but that was on flexi buggy at Mablethorpe and I was cr%$ping myself, feeling like I could fall off the thing at any moment. Anything over 25 was a bit hairy in that buggy!

I've been 32 in the superbug and I didn't flinch, so stable and I feel much safer with the high side rails. So next chance I get with decent winds I'll let her run!