Power Kite Forum

Yet another newbie question

average_newb - 8-9-2015 at 11:22 AM

Sorry guys but I just couldn't find it anywhere in the forum. So when I try and get in my board I bring my kite up overhead and then get on my board. The problem comes when my kite the hq montana overshoots the zenith and then collapses and luffs into a nice tangled bridle. Is there anyway to keep the kite from going too far overhead, or do I just have to keep it moving?

ssayre - 8-9-2015 at 11:41 AM

trim out and keep bar pulled in to prevent overfly. Others will probably chime in

Windstruck - 8-9-2015 at 11:43 AM

Agreed with Sean

average_newb - 8-9-2015 at 11:48 AM

Ok thanks guys. It's definitely a transition between fb and depower. No one really tells you how to fly depower all videos are for fb.

wolphy - 8-9-2015 at 11:52 AM

Alex, sounds like you and I have to hang out together. Going through the same set of issues myself... :D

abkayak - 8-9-2015 at 11:53 AM

have you moved w/ the Hornet properly?...you know im a big fan of the 3m Hornet

robinsonpr - 8-9-2015 at 12:28 PM

I asked exactly the same question a while back. I got the same advice, keep the bar pulled in so you are on that fine line between not choking the kite completely and just about on a back stall.

I found that the problem is more prominent with inland flying...gusts can cause the kite to fly forward which if you've got it at the zenith can mean overfly and luff.

Through trial and error I had more success just never trying to keep the kite at the zenith. Move it about a bit in small movements between 11 and 1 or maybe just try and hold it at 11 or 1 (again using the back lines to hold it in near stall) if the wind isn't too strong.

PHREERIDER - 8-9-2015 at 12:40 PM

As the pilot you must control and tend the sails position . Bar feedback , pressure and conidtions behavior have to be sorted by YOUR experience . It's a small learning curve, Couple sessions , heavy , light air and you'll be fine . Definitely some balance elements you have to figure out . Keep doing. Don't stand around , get moving!

Windstruck - 8-9-2015 at 12:57 PM

I've got to hand it to you and anybody else who is trying to learn to fly various different styles of kites (FB, DP, etc) AND learning how to stand on a board and get moving. That turned out to be more than I could handle. That compliment is coming from a guy who used to be competitive in downhill ski racing back in the day so I consider myself reasonably athletic. It wasn't until I sat my happy ass in a buggy that I could tie together kite control and forward (purposeful) motion on or in my vehicle of choice.

Keep up the great work! :thumbup:

gemini6kl - 8-9-2015 at 01:51 PM

The montana is a high aspect ratio kite and the tend to overfly, and be lifty a better kite to learn on would have been the apex series. but like was said some tension on the back lines would help just don't send it to hard or up u go off the board. lol

average_newb - 8-9-2015 at 07:57 PM

@windstruck, see now that's what I'm really waiting for is some snow and ice! I love to just bomb the mountain on my skiis but I also like to go off jumps so I'm hoping that by the end of winter my kite will provide me with the best of both worlds!

average_newb - 8-9-2015 at 08:03 PM

And yes @abkayak I use my hornet constantly when winds are good enough! I also use it when school is in session forcing me to go to a more than deserted park rather than the school soccer fields. I'm assuming if something goes wrong a 3m kite would hurt a heck if a lot less than a huge depower kite hiring you in the face.

RedSky - 9-9-2015 at 01:30 AM

Quote: Originally posted by average_newb  
I'm assuming if something goes wrong a 3m kite would hurt a heck if a lot less than a huge depower kite hiring you in the face.


I am an expert in this field and have conducted many tests using slow-motion cameras. In my experience there is a distinct advantage in using a large depower kite on the face.
Whilst the larger kite might seem to have more mass and therefore more kinetic energy its usually moving slower than a smaller but ultimately faster moving kite, therefore we can discount those kinetic forces. Under equal conditions a smaller kite will impact the face with a larger proportion of its total surface area leaving the unsuspecting subject shocked and confused.

soliver - 9-9-2015 at 04:59 AM

:lol:

Windstruck - 9-9-2015 at 05:14 AM

@ RedSky - BLINDED! :lol:


PHREERIDER - 9-9-2015 at 05:38 AM

this tip may help as you come to grips with handling depower.

since you're just starting out, keep the trim all the way out , this will make the kite rideback into the window a bit when idle at the edge. This will make the kite a little sluggish in general and put the the bar away from you. as mentioned , "bar in" to add tension will keep it back , this constant "nursing " is usually only needed when stopped or sudden speed differential between your speed and the kites speed.

as you get a feel for bar pressure and kite behavior, start pulling the trim in a little at a time, for better body/arm position and kite performance.

abkayak - 9-9-2015 at 05:46 AM

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
Quote: Originally posted by average_newb  
I'm assuming if something goes wrong a 3m kite would hurt a heck if a lot less than a huge depower kite hiring you in the face.


I am an expert in this field and have conducted many tests using slow-motion cameras. In my experience there is a distinct advantage in using a large depower kite on the face.
Whilst the larger kite might seem to have more mass and therefore more kinetic energy its usually moving slower than a smaller but ultimately faster moving kite, therefore we can discount those kinetic forces. Under equal conditions a smaller kite will impact the face with a larger proportion of its total surface area leaving the unsuspecting subject shocked and confused.

simply put...a 3m will pbly sneak up and whomp you faster than a big dp, and do it just as hard...i will add that the more you get use to flying that 3 and the more you think you own it and put it up in higher winds the sooner it's coming...and thats why I like them so much
A newb...im asking if you atb w/ that 3..not just flying it

average_newb - 9-9-2015 at 05:59 AM

Yea whenever I have good enough winds I hop on my landboard.

abkayak - 9-9-2015 at 06:21 AM

cool...i think it's natural to rush atb before having the kite thing down pat...i rode atb at least a yr w/ my fb's and then got my 1st dp and went back at it...looking back i know it was the right thing to do...i was able to lean back stroped in and run the beach for miles before i picked up a 7m frenzy...dp has different things going on and the kite has to be set up proper as well...if it's your first 1st dp it may need to be tweeked a bit to even fly correct
jusayin

ssayre - 9-9-2015 at 06:31 AM

you beach guys have it made. you could probably get away with any old 3 and 5 fb combo and be able to board and buggy most of the winds. The inland fliers are forced into more exotic varieties

abkayak - 9-9-2015 at 06:40 AM

true...hate the game not the players...or come play at the beach, it nice down here by the water

RedSky - 9-9-2015 at 07:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
@ RedSky - BLINDED! :lol:




I don't remember this! I missed out big time. I think I'm in love.

average_newb - 9-9-2015 at 07:11 AM

Yea Sean is totally right I don't really have the luxury of great clean wind all the time. Where I am we mostly get wind 1 or 2 days a week and it is just before a huge rain storm. So it is kinda hard to be able to pick and choose what I can fly. And I actually do feel like I have a great handle on boarding with my fb

Windstruck - 9-9-2015 at 07:13 AM

RedSky - did you grow up in a cave? :lol: Weird Science was an absolute nerd boy classic! Probably describes most of us (does me!). Came out in 1985. Directed by John Hughes of The Breakfast Club, 16 Candles, National Lampoon's Vacation, etc., fame, starring most of the same teen actors as TBC. Robert Downey, Jr made it the biggest in that crowd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_Science_(film)

abkayak - 9-9-2015 at 07:15 AM

jus asking :thumbup:....all you guys need a day/wk at the beach

RedSky - 9-9-2015 at 05:15 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
RedSky - did you grow up in a cave? :lol: Weird Science was an absolute nerd boy classic! Probably describes most of us (does me!). Came out in 1985. Directed by John Hughes of The Breakfast Club, 16 Candles, National Lampoon's Vacation, etc., fame, starring most of the same teen actors as TBC. Robert Downey, Jr made it the biggest in that crowd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_Science_(film)


I was 15 in 85, so I would have been the target audience but perhaps it was never aired in the UK. Shame as it looks excellent....even now. :D
Yeah I remember that kid from the Breakfast Club, great film, especially the ending.

Windstruck - 9-9-2015 at 05:19 PM


I bet it was your UK upbringing that kept you deprived of this fine bit of Americana depravity. Your loss my friend. Stuff dreams were made of for folks just your age at the time. :piggy:

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
RedSky - did you grow up in a cave? :lol: Weird Science was an absolute nerd boy classic! Probably describes most of us (does me!). Came out in 1985. Directed by John Hughes of The Breakfast Club, 16 Candles, National Lampoon's Vacation, etc., fame, starring most of the same teen actors as TBC. Robert Downey, Jr made it the biggest in that crowd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_Science_(film)


I was 15 in 85, so I would have been the target audience but perhaps it was never aired in the UK. Shame as it looks excellent....even now. :D
Yeah I remember that kid from the Breakfast Club, great film, especially the ending.

RedSky - 9-9-2015 at 10:59 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  

I bet it was your UK upbringing that kept you deprived of this fine bit of Americana depravity. Your loss my friend. Stuff dreams were made of for folks just your age at the time. :piggy:

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
RedSky - did you grow up in a cave? :lol: Weird Science was an absolute nerd boy classic! Probably describes most of us (does me!). Came out in 1985. Directed by John Hughes of The Breakfast Club, 16 Candles, National Lampoon's Vacation, etc., fame, starring most of the same teen actors as TBC. Robert Downey, Jr made it the biggest in that crowd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_Science_(film)


I was 15 in 85, so I would have been the target audience but perhaps it was never aired in the UK. Shame as it looks excellent....even now. :D
Yeah I remember that kid from the Breakfast Club, great film, especially the ending.


We had Bagpuss - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfGDyOiHs6w

Windstruck - 10-9-2015 at 08:00 AM

Bagpuss! An instant classic. Not quite Wallace and Gromit when it comes to still-action photography but the sound effects more than made up for it. When they mentioned woodpecker I feared the film was going to take a seriously wrong turn.... :lol:

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  

I bet it was your UK upbringing that kept you deprived of this fine bit of Americana depravity. Your loss my friend. Stuff dreams were made of for folks just your age at the time. :piggy:

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky  
Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
RedSky - did you grow up in a cave? :lol: Weird Science was an absolute nerd boy classic! Probably describes most of us (does me!). Came out in 1985. Directed by John Hughes of The Breakfast Club, 16 Candles, National Lampoon's Vacation, etc., fame, starring most of the same teen actors as TBC. Robert Downey, Jr made it the biggest in that crowd.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weird_Science_(film)


I was 15 in 85, so I would have been the target audience but perhaps it was never aired in the UK. Shame as it looks excellent....even now. :D
Yeah I remember that kid from the Breakfast Club, great film, especially the ending.


We had Bagpuss - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfGDyOiHs6w

nate76 - 10-9-2015 at 08:42 AM

One other recommendation if you are having trouble with over-shoot is to use more of a weaving/serpentine motion as you bring the kite overheard. As you get close to 12 o'clock, anticipate it a little bit and start moving the kite to either 11 or 1 o'clock to prevent the overshoot. This, coupled with some brake-checking like the other guys have mentioned should help.

You'll find that trying to keep the kite directly overhead in light and/or gustier conditions while you are stationary is one of the harder things to do. You've probably found that once you start moving, things kind of smooth out. Speed and motion in this case actually become your friend to smooth out the erratic power of the kite, since the percentage of power coming from the gusts is effectively reduced.

One other thing that I think you are probably already doing is make sure you point your board well downwind so that the kite power is translated into motion rather than just pulling you over the front of the board.

Keep it up - sounds like you've got the right attitude and will have it licked before you know it.