Power Kite Forum

Suggestions for good skis for kiting

nate76 - 10-9-2015 at 10:02 AM

Hey guys,

So I am thinking about finally getting a decent pair of skis this season for snow kiting. Up till now I've been riding around on goodwill finds - which will likely continue since I spend a lot of time riding in areas with marginal coverage and don't need to be tearing up nice skis for this.

I would like to have one nice pair that I can start using for some back country expeditions though. I am thinking more along the lines of AT skis. Have been kicking around Rossignol Soul 7's or Super 7's, but fully admit to be pretty ignorant on the topic.

Also don't know what size would be appropriate for a 5'11" guy who weights about 190lbs. Don't have a ton of money lying around so I will be looking for a used set somewhere.

Anyhow, appreciate any advice you guys might have.

Thanks!

Nate

Feyd - 10-9-2015 at 11:28 AM

Depends on what your needs are. If you are looking strictly to ski only when riding the kite then you have many options, some of which are surprisingly affordable. If you are looking for something more for skiing down after you've used the kite to get you to a start point for a run, something like the Soul 7 is a good option but pricey.

You're the same build as I am. Something in the 186-190+cm range will work depending on your conditions and what you want the ski to do. As the kite is doing the work an AT binding is more important than an AT specific ski. If you really want to save cash and have something versatile, a AT ski adapter will work wonders.

This may help.

http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/recommended-equipment.html

flyguy0101 - 10-9-2015 at 01:18 PM

Chris- just checked out your link- here is a big :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: great information

nate76 - 10-9-2015 at 06:50 PM

Thanks Chris - I've kind of eyed up adapters before and maybe that really is what I need to do. Some of the places I'll be riding here require skinning through treeline before getting to an open enough area to put out your kite - which is another way of saying that part of the adventure involves kite-less skiing.

The only real back-country opportunity I got last year was when I Kited Hoosier Pass here in CO (you can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYSfl-zOPbU ). It was spring conditions - and when I was off my kite I really struggled with carving in the heavier snow. I had made a decision to take short skis that day (160's) since the snow was frozen/dense and I thought it might actually help with my turn radius. Again - I make no claim to being a ski guru; I've only skied once without a kite in the last 15 years and vowed to never do it again (at least at a resort).

So that's all to say that I might get an expensive set of skis and realize that the problem is that I just suck at skiing. But it does seem like a more modern ski with a wider planform/more area might be helpful in keeping on top of the crud and/or powder.

The only reason I mention Rossy skis is that's because that what I see guys like Pascal Bougly riding. I guess part of the reason for the post was to see if there are better skis out there of the same price that don't get as much air time.

dangerdan - 11-9-2015 at 07:03 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd  
Depends on what your needs are. If you are looking strictly to ski only when riding the kite then you have many options, some of which are surprisingly affordable. If you are looking for something more for skiing down after you've used the kite to get you to a start point for a run, something like the Soul 7 is a good option but pricey.

You're the same build as I am. Something in the 186-190+cm range will work depending on your conditions and what you want the ski to do. As the kite is doing the work an AT binding is more important than an AT specific ski. If you really want to save cash and have something versatile, a AT ski adapter will work wonders.

This may help.

http://www.hardwaterkiter.com/recommended-equipment.html



Alpine touring (also known as "Randonnée" or "AT") ski bindings allow you to lift your heels naturally while skinning uphill or moving over rolling terrain.

Newbee Question. Why would you want your heels to lift instead of a binding that locks the heel down ??

'Backcountry' ski kiting

skimtwashington - 11-9-2015 at 08:17 AM




Quote:

Newbee Question. Why would you want your heels to lift instead of a binding that locks the heel down ??
.

Backcountry ski kiting. Also for Pre-kiting approaches or after-kiting mobility reasons...that such equipment allows for....

You may be hiking on a trail for several miles to get to a remote(not by roadway)lake. In other words you might be 'ski touring' to your play area. Skiing in( thru flat, uphill, downhill stretches) is much much easier, and quicker with AT( or telemark) gear.
Even just walking with AT boots(and carrying skiis) is typically easier by boot's design.

Even if its a Lake (or open plain) by the road...say a large area, or long out and back...if the wind dies or kite problems or whatever reason you no longer are flying.... you can tour back to your car.

One gentleman I know ascends Mt Washington by kite... packs up kite..and then skis down its steep gullies . You need touring gear for this.

Some 3-pc collapsible poles make the touring/approach/ descent equipment gear complete. Stuffs compactly into or on pack when kiting.

I use telemark gear for everything ski related. They'll do anything on snow. It's all a personal choice of ski gear.


Then, after the boot/ binding issue brought up here... there's getting back to original question, WHAT KIND OF SKI?

For deep snow, packed snow, bare ice...?

You may need a quiver of a few...





dangerdan - 11-9-2015 at 11:49 AM

Good answer, never thought of that

Feyd - 11-9-2015 at 03:18 PM

Locally. Given the limited Backcountry mountain terrain that's kite accessible, we choose AT gear for getting back in the event that the wind dies or somehow your kite becomes inoperable.

Its easy to get many miles away from your launch area. Not easy to get back when the wind dies or if you wreck a kite. But if you have an AT binding and some skins. Even without poles its relatively easy to get yourself home.

To this day my favorite all round, float the powder and still be able to rail on ice ski is the Rossi Phatom 108 in a 198 length. Huge carve radius, punches through anything. The first time I raced Mille Lacs I flew out there. I could bring only one ski. I took my phantoms and they were perfect for the variable conditions on that lake.

Wouldn't have won without them.

Been looking for more. Haven't seen any in years.

I'm on Dynastars now. I like them well enough but not nearly as good a ski as the Phantom.

Really near as can tell nobody makes a crappy ski these days. And many skis on closeout are usually pretty much the same as current inline stuff, just a different color and a lot less $$$

ssayre - 11-9-2015 at 03:32 PM

I've tried downhill skiing and snowboarding and suck at both with marginally more success with skis. I want to get one or the other this winter but not sure which? I'm leaning towards snowboard but not sure.

ssayre - 11-9-2015 at 03:41 PM

Nate - "The only real back-country opportunity I got last year was when I Kited Hoosier Pass here in CO (you can see it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYSfl-zOPbU ). It was spring conditions - and when I was off my kite I really struggled with carving in the heavier snow. I had made a decision to take short skis that day (160's) since the snow was frozen/dense and I thought it might actually help with my turn radius. Again - I make no claim to being a ski guru; I've only skied once without a kite in the last 15 years and vowed to never do it again (at least at a resort)."

So that's all to say that I might get an expensive set of skis and realize that the problem is that I just suck at skiing. But it does seem like a more modern ski with a wider planform/more area might be helpful in keeping on top of the crud and/or powder. "




Sounds like my problem exactly Nate. Last 2 years I've been to a resort and decided I'm just not doing it again. If I had one closer, I would take lessons but that's not the case

nate76 - 12-9-2015 at 12:54 AM

So it sounds like I may have been trying to get by on way too short of a ski. I probably just need to get out again and try with my longer skis. And then keep my eyes open for a craigslist deal. I'd like to get a used setup in fair condition that already has skins and AT bindings.

Dangerdan - there appears to be some great places locally that require a modest trek to either get above treeline or into an open area. For a skiier on unpacked snow that means either snowshoes that you have to haul around after you start kiting, a snowmobile which isn't an option for me, or some sort of trekking setup. Walking in just your ski boots typically isn't an option unless the snow is real firm. Post-holing in thigh-high snow with ski boots on is the epitome of not-fun. Unless of course you just want a really good work out.

I think you're right Chis - its kind of like kites - things have come a long ways in 10-15 years so it would be hard to go too wrong.

Feyd - 12-9-2015 at 04:14 AM

That's exactly right Nate.

Ssayre, its easier to learn on skis. Allows more mobility during the very first learning steps. As a kiter with expirience you know there are times where, for example, you have to shuffle back to get the kite in the air or keep it in the air. Action like that is hard on a board.

Our snowboarding students, except for a few that are acceptional boarders, all get out on skis in their first clinics with HWK. They are resistant at first but soon realize that it makes things much easier.

Even if they've never skied.

The nice thing about kite skiing, at least in the mode routine fields and lakes environment, is that as long as you know the very basic skills of how to edge a ski or board you can have a good time. And if you are a good flier, you can focus on the edging skills and get them loosely figured out.

We had a client last year that had no ski expirience. Or board. Our policy is you have to be an intermediate skier or boarder to take clinics with us. He was however an expirienced kiter. A very good kiter. As it happened we had conditions that allowed us to teach him how to edge and make basic turns. A nice nonwind day with perfect styro crust. Showed him how things work. Pulled him around with the Fat bike for practice.

By the end of the winter, he could hang with the locals and looked like he'd been riding snow for years.

Learning to fly or ski is doable. Trying to learn both at once is a drag. We do get clients that don't ski but we have them take a ski lesson at one of the areas here before we instruct them on the kite. Still not ideal but it works.

Feyd - 12-9-2015 at 04:22 AM

Keep an eye on Evo.com.They have some sweet deals on stuff sometimes. Bought 2 pairs of skis there last season for way less than cost. Just because the stuff was a season old.

Got a pair of Icelandic Seekers. Thought it would be a good ski to fit between my Salomon Rockers and my Dynastar Cham 107. Its a pretty sweet ski. So is the Cham. The Cham is the closest thing I've found to the Phantom. But its a 186. Good, but on hard ice a 198 would treat me better.

On everything else, that ski rocks.

Windstruck - 12-9-2015 at 05:13 AM

Nate - I see that you live in Colorado Springs. Not sure what your budget is for skis but I've had a lot of good fortune buying skis over the years from an outfit right up the road from you in Golden, CO. It's called Powder7. Here is a link to their website:

http://www.powder7.com/

I liken Powder7 to the "Overstock.com" of the ski world. One of the things I've taken advantage of through them is buying previous demo equipment. For your purposes that might work out quite well as demo skis have bindings that adjust for all different size boots. This way you won't have to get the binding remounted to fit your particular size ski boots. While they are primarily an online store they do run a small store front in Golden. I was in town a couple of seasons ago and looked it up. It is just North of town in a small warehouse district. I bought a great pair of skis on the spot that weren't even in their online catalog.

Good luck!

nate76 - 12-9-2015 at 11:19 AM

Windstruck - thanks for the heads up. I will definitely check them out. I know there's a couple shops in COS that also sell good used equipment; we're starting to get to the time of year for gear swaps and blowouts, so I'll have to keep my eyes open.

Had a couple cold snaps come thru the last couple of days - its definitely got me thinking of snow again!

Proletariat - 12-9-2015 at 04:31 PM

Faction Candide 3.0. Mount the bindings at the back of the range. You can't ask for a better kiteboarding ski. They look badass, too.

Proletariat - 12-9-2015 at 04:36 PM

Here they are on icy lake powder. Handled like a dream.


Proletariat - 12-9-2015 at 04:43 PM

Okay, last chain post, I promise :)

I'm up in Denver and I have an old pair of K2 Axis XT's that are basically brand new. I'd be willing to let them go for like $50. Or I also have a pair of Salomon 1080 Guns with bindings that I'd let go for the same.

Then you could spend your money on some decent AT bindings or boots instead. Also, check theclymb.com for good deals on skis / bindings. It's not great, but it'll save you a couple hundred. Lemme know if you're interested or need pics. Otherwise, just go buy the Factions. They are amazing. Way better than any Rossi or K2 I've ever been on. I found them cheap on Amazon.

Windstruck - 12-9-2015 at 05:38 PM

I'm feeling the STOKE! Great video Proletariat - thanks for the share.

We've had a series of nights just below freezing over here in UT as I suspect you are having as well in CO. This is my first year of mobile power kiting (so far only in a buggy). I am all geared up to do a lot of snowkiting this winter and can hardly wait. I plan to use my Peak-2s. I've got a pair of 184 Mantras and a pair of Icelantic Keepers in I think a 191. The snow tends to be soft over my way so I'm hoping sidecut doesn't become an issue. Living where we do it is actually pretty easy to pick up some long skis on the cheap at swaps, sales, etc. One man's wine is another man's poison I guess.

yeti - 12-9-2015 at 07:23 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  

http://www.powder7.com/


I had good luck with these guys too when I lived in CO.
http://www.levelninesports.com/

I think they ship from Utah or something. So not as close but similar deals. Worth looking at both places if you're hunting for bargains.

nate76 - 12-9-2015 at 08:28 PM

Proletariat - thanks for the offer; I think I'm going to hold out for something that has at least 100mm underfoot. We'll have to get together this winter though. I've also have been working with a guy in Denver who is new to the sport and is totally hooked (takes one to know one); I'll have to get you guys hooked up together. Unfortunately come January I'm going to become a very busy man, but here's to hoping for an early winter!

Thanks for the video share on Terryall Reservoir - I had a near-death experience there this last Feb (slight exaggeration). Was trying to ski on boiler plate conditions with winds 15 gusting 30+. Had an 8m out and had brought the kite up to change directions when a gust came up and I got lofted big-time. The rest is a little blurry but I came down hard on my side. While I was laying in a pile trying to figure out how to breathe again, had some ice fishermen come over and tell me that was a pretty neat trick. Long story short: my wife had told me that if I broke any more bones she was going to take my toys away. Had to sleep in a Lazyboy recliner for a week since it hurt so bad to lie down, but I was able to work some magic and convince her that if I took her out for Indian food, she wouldn't make me go get X-rays. So she got some good eats and I can still claim that I just bruised some ribs. All is good.

Looks like you hit the lake on a good day. Another place that can be sublime if conditions line up is Chubb state park just outside of Buena Vista.

Sorry that's a little off-topic-but got to hand it to you guys who ride ice/boiler plate on a regular basis. It definitely has my respect.

Proletariat - 13-9-2015 at 07:21 AM

Hey man. That accident sounds horrible. What kite were you using? I always blame the kite. If you haven't already, you should sell it and send a message to your other kites :).

Thanks for the tip on Chubb. We also hit up Antero last year on an epic day. We also do Rabbit Ears a bit, but there are a lot of snowmobiles. Looking for more interesting terrain this year. Lakes get boring :)

FrontRangeJeff - 13-9-2015 at 10:32 AM

Nate - that does sound bad. A lofting is no joke - I've been there! If it does workout to meet up sometime say the word. I've also kited 11 mile a lot - not nearly as gusty as Terryall since it is much more wide open!!! Although I've been lofted there as well but 100% blamed the kite.

I kite with Dave (Proletariat) quite a bit. Rabbit Ears is my favorite place for snow - Dave just hasn't had an epic day there like I usually snag. I've never had a single issue with snowmobiles.

Like Yeti (Brad) I too have purchased from Powder7 - whom Yeti turned me on to - some of their deals are wicked good and their service is great too. Back before Yeti bailed to Canada we had some spectacular days on Rabbit Ears and a handful on Dillon but Dillon is nothing but flat....

Hit Proletariat or I up...I'm still H20ing it but I know Dave is getting the shakes for winter :)

nate76 - 13-9-2015 at 01:12 PM

Jeff, thanks for the invite - I will definitely make good on it. I'm not ready to blame the kite yet - I think I just got a particularly strong gust that caught me by surprise, and that I think the kite also got schwacked - almost like a paragliding frontal collapse - when I was in the air. It definitely wasn't a soft decent. Unfortunately my eyes were too mesmerized by the vanishing and reappearing earth - I never actually looked up to see what was going on. I do know that when I got home I took to WindAlert to see what the actual winds were doing locally in that hour and it was showing gusts of over 40mph. So I think that might have been what nabbed me.

I think I'm going to start another thread regarding kiting in CO so that I don't hijack this post.


FrontRangeJeff - 13-9-2015 at 01:37 PM

Hey Nate - totally hijacking your own thread is cool!

I assume you are a paraglider pilot? I am a P3 myself in case you are. A frontal collapse is indeed what a lofting feels like when it starts to drop - never thought about it but definitely the case. Man I haven't flown for a long time! Kiting (snow/water/land) all took over entirely....

Big gusts are the worst - especially when you can't quite recollect what happened. Mine were usually the result of changing wind direction popping the kite behind me followed by another gust (as best I could surmise.) Pulled a groin but ribs...OUCH.




nate76 - 13-9-2015 at 01:59 PM

Hey Jeff - yes I got up to P3, but haven't flown for going on a couple years now. It just isn't practical for me at this stage in life- I feel like in kiting I can get out more often and more safely on my own if need be. Maybe once my boys get older I can justify getting back into it :)

Where are you water kiting at? Aurora? The water regulations here in CO make it hard to find places to ride. I've had a pretty pathetic water year this year, especially w/ Lake Mac being full.

FrontRangeJeff - 13-9-2015 at 05:19 PM

Hey Nate,
Wow-similar path for sure. I haven't flown since kiting at all - so like 2012. Paragliding just never became as addictive as kiting has proven to be. Definitely the "production factor" for flying plus the sketchy locations sort of shifted me away. I too feel I can mitigate a lot of risk by kiting instead of paragliding. Plus I find it much more my thing.

We indeed live in a tough spot for water but definitely doable. I most often go to Wyoming - Hattie, Twin Buttes (just outside Laramie) but my favorite spot within 3 hours is Wheatland #3. Lots love Macconaughy but either I'm snake bit there or something but I like the stronger winds of Wy. I also take a trip now and then to ocean conditions but my bulk is local.

I've kited Boulder Res but have yet to hit Aurora. Met a bunch of guys that kite there frequently last time I was at Hattie and it sounds like when its on it can be fantastic!

The state park system doesn't make it easy but some parks have shown extreme willingness to allow it.

Proletariat - 13-9-2015 at 10:02 PM

Incidentally, Aurora would've been nice today and on a big kite with a big board. Missed my window. :( it's getting cold.

To redirect this thread back to Nate's original question, Faction Candide 2.0 or 3.0's :). I'm telling you, you can't beat the bamboo core and the wicked rocker. They are light as hell, which doesn't really matter for cruisers, but it's nice in the air.

FrontRangeJeff - 14-9-2015 at 06:13 AM

Getting cold is a matter of perspective...and appropriate wetsuit...but as soon as I can't kite without booties I'm done on the H20 too. Several weeks in my op.

I think you have forgotten Dave - your Factions as I recall last season you felt weren't actually ideal; felt too far forward-but in defense probably more a mounting issue.

I've used 3 different pairs with all different cuts as well as from fatties to short pieces of crap and have yet to find one that didn't work totally fine....as long as they were waxed :) in my op more a function of adjusting DINs to account for much more side loading vs fall line impacts then what would be normal for alpine (for me I use MUCH less snow kiting)...and comfy boots for lots of the same issues...

Proletariat - 18-9-2015 at 08:22 PM

Yup, I like 'em mounted about in the center for downhill. Maybe an inch or two back. Kept crossing my tails while kiting and I b1tched about it a lot. Most of that, though, was about while I shuffling about from place to place (which is why I was considering AT bindings.). While actually riding, they're fantastic.

Feyd - 19-9-2015 at 03:10 AM

@ Windstruck, in the powder the effect of side cut is a lot less concrete. You're planing in the snow as opposed to firm snow where you are locking an edge mechanically to the surface. The effect of the side cut will depend on how hard you arc the ski vs. the edge doing it automatically.

Drive it more, arc more. Drive it less and run the ski more flat, the ski runs straight.

In soft snow you can ride a kite with just about anything.

Windstruck - 19-9-2015 at 06:00 AM

@ Feyd - Thanks Chris, that's great advice and makes perfect sense. I grew up ski racing at Killington and other delightful boiler plate ski resorts out your way growing up in Southern Vermont, so for better of for worse I know all about setting an edge on "hard water". I can see exactly how edging would work as you resist the pull of the kite and tack to the wind. On your advice (here and on your site) I've ordered a pair of Alpine Trekkers. I'm hopeful that with the Trekkers I can avoid getting a whole new AT setup. The kiting sites I'm scoping right now have very convenient access (like literally right out my back door for one) so I'm thinking the Trekkers will be in my backpack for the Walk of Shame and other duties, but not for getting me long distances to kite spots. All theoretical at this point of course because I have done it yet!