Power Kite Forum

Shopping in EU

Prussik - 18-9-2015 at 01:41 PM

Prices of EU goods include VAT which should not be charged by an European company when shipping product to a non-EU destination. Reputable companies automatically deduct this amount ( e.g. 19 % in Germany ) when shipping out of the country. At the other end of the spectrum there are those who quietly pocket that amount what is, of course, illegal. The rest just do not care enough about their customers to avoid overcharging them. So if you can think of a better use of your money other than supporting taxman in a foreign country - question the seller prior to invoicing. It is sometimes possible to get a refund after the fact but it is a hassle making it hardly worthwhile. There are companies that can do it for you for a fee so the problem is quite widespread.

bigkid - 18-9-2015 at 02:20 PM

Don't forget that anything shipped from Europe to the USA is subject to customs and all the fees that go with it. If you don't get an invoice from customs doesn't mean your off the hook for the penalty of non payment.
I remember my last order from Libre, customs nailed me for $138.00 for a complementary sweatshirt. The total cost was doubled for the order of buggy part to pay for everything except the VAT.
Ordering from China or Asia is the same as Europe, you end up paying a lot more in the long run.
Worst order of all time was a kite I got from Pansh for $45.00. Customs follows up a year later with a fine of $ 543.78 for non payment of customs fee, brokerage fee, and shipping fee. After the lawyer fee was added to the pot, the kite cost me just shy of $1000.00.

skimtwashington - 18-9-2015 at 03:14 PM

Hmmmmnnn...:puzzled:

VAT and Customs tax....

Customs Tax for Wholesalers, direct buyers..both the same?

I ordered sack of NPWs from china and there was no customs fee.

"Kite' was a subcategory that falls under the category off 'toys'- I believe.... and not 'sporting goods'-when I looked it up( at US Govt site) on their lists. The former isn't taxed but I think the latter is. That's how I treated it.

Well, nothing happened anyway to me w/ US customs.

So a buggy falls under a customs tax levy? That would make sense if it's a 'sporting good'. Sometime it might fit both a taxable and non-taxable category....depending on how it's used or how the Govt. sees it.

I don't know that xxxx paid a customs tax on his Sysmic Buggy .

??

bigkid - 18-9-2015 at 03:34 PM

I've done business both ways, personal and business. You are still liable for customs, but only if you get caught.:mad:
Kites are classified as toys, not sure where the line is between the little ones and the big ones.
I found out over the years it's all about the agent who is looking at the shipping invoice and if they are having a good or bad day, go figure.

The sweatshirt that cost me so much was the straw that broke the camels back for me.
I paid duty on what country the material was made in, where it was put together, where it was embroidered at, who made the embroidery thread, and who sells the finished item, and last but not forgotten who buys it.
Let's see, buggy steal, welding, tires, rubber company, wheel material and country, seat material, sewing thread and designer, and final assembler.
Order 5 buggies, shipping, duty, customs, brokerage fees, sell buggy at cost with no profit. And everyone complains it costs to much.

RedSky - 18-9-2015 at 04:40 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid  
Don't forget that anything shipped from Europe to the USA is subject to customs and all the fees that go with it. If you don't get an invoice from customs doesn't mean your off the hook for the penalty of non payment.
I remember my last order from Libre, customs nailed me for $138.00 for a complementary sweatshirt. The total cost was doubled for the order of buggy part to pay for everything except the VAT.
Ordering from China or Asia is the same as Europe, you end up paying a lot more in the long run.
Worst order of all time was a kite I got from Pansh for $45.00. Customs follows up a year later with a fine of $ 543.78 for non payment of customs fee, brokerage fee, and shipping fee. After the lawyer fee was added to the pot, the kite cost me just shy of $1000.00.



That is daylight robbery. :mad::mad:

skimtwashington - 18-9-2015 at 04:43 PM


The $45 Pansh costing $1000 in the end is a terrible injustice.

So is the sweatshirt.

Their own rules say a kite is a toy....with no exceptions noted .

But go try and fight it...lawyer fees...delay...you still lose if you win I suppose.

Kober - 18-9-2015 at 05:19 PM

I just got 2 packages from Europe ..... because they was unable to fit it on one box ..... got 2x $50 customs charge for checking content ... So far I never pay duty on any products, but got that custom charge on 8 out of 10 packages .....

bigkid - 18-9-2015 at 05:34 PM

In case you don't know, Pansh sells you a kite that is marked "toy" and they claim it at less than $5.00 USD for customs. We won't get into how little they pay their employees. They ship the kite for approxamently $40.00 each.
If they reported the real cost to customs they would go broke, or be forced to produce a quality product.
When customs checks the package and opens it they find the toy to be a bit more than they were told. You end up with the adjusted cost.
Part of what my $1000.00 paid for was this info about Pansh.

soliver - 18-9-2015 at 05:46 PM

So in the last year, I've gotten 3 kites shipped to me from Germany, are you saying I should be having to pay a customs tax on them? Because I've NEVER had any tax bill or ANYTHING show up at the house... Is this customs tax only for distributers?... this is all new to me.

Also, I have an open invoice for the upcoming order of another kite from Born-kite, ... the site says "19% VAT included" I have emailed Steffen to ask if the 19% can be removed since the kite will be destined for the U.S. ... I'll let you guys know what he says.

bigkid - 18-9-2015 at 07:24 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
So in the last year, I've gotten 3 kites shipped to me from Germany, are you saying I should be having to pay a customs tax on them? Because I've NEVER had any tax bill or ANYTHING show up at the house... Is this customs tax only for distributers?... this is all new to me.

Also, I have an open invoice for the upcoming order of another kite from Born-kite, ... the site says "19% VAT included" I have emailed Steffen to ask if the 19% can be removed since the kite will be destined for the U.S. ... I'll let you guys know what he says.

The shipping company might send you a bill in a few months, I have received them as late as a 18 months from the date of shipping. One of the reasons I don't use fedex anymore.
All I am saying is what the law is and how it works. If you don't get nailed your very lucky.
All of this crap is part of the sport, right? It's also a big reason some businesses don't ship outside the country they live in. If someone says they ship outside the U.S. Without a problem just hasn't got caught yet.
Shipping to Canada is another problem that hasn't been addresed yet.

bigkid - 18-9-2015 at 07:40 PM

Some companies that sell kites to the U.S. Make it known that you the customer is and are liable for any and all debts occurred with taxes, customs duties, and shipping.
I send items to Canada quite often, not a cheap venture. Most of my transactions are mailed or shipped in Canada to Canadian friends and family members as a gift. Hypothetically I mean.
It's cheaper, less paperwork, and much quicker. I don't like the "wait here while we ransack your vehicle" when I travel north of the boarder. I have been charged a duty and sales tax on the 2 nuts I welded onto a couple side rails of a buggy I delivered to a guy in BC. Had to lock up Levi in a cage for 3 hours while they tore the truck apart looking for who knows what, (I left a brown paper bag full of dog crap on the next trip for the boarder patrol, it cost me an extra 2 hours and an interrogation) but was worth it.

skimtwashington - 18-9-2015 at 08:21 PM





soliver - 22-9-2015 at 05:16 AM

I emailed Steffen several days ago regarding excluding the VAT since the kite will be bound for the US and still haven't heard from him yet. He is usually good about responding by the next day.

Curious

bigkid - 22-9-2015 at 06:38 AM

Oh oh, Spencer isn't a dumb American anymore. Good work young man.:thumbup:

shortlineflyer - 22-9-2015 at 08:17 AM

there is a big deffierence between knowing your rights and being a PITA towards people that are doing there job, which includes keeping the country safer

soliver - 22-9-2015 at 01:07 PM

Well Steffen tells me that he can only leave out the VAT when shipping to dealers, but he is willing to waive the Paypal fee. I'm not really sure how kosher that is, but I'm really not in much place to argue. I want the kite and can't really get it from anywhere else, so I don't really have any recourse.

Maybe I'll email Big Mike... he's a Nasa Star dealer now.

ssayre - 22-9-2015 at 01:39 PM

Mike has been changing his site around. Haven't seen him list born-kite stuff for awhile. With or without vat, Steffen's price for 10 meter power still can't be beat, even with kitemaker making one (about the same). You can fart around all you want, but my guess is your not going to save any money any way you slice it. Hope you can, but just doubtful. Good you got the paypal covered.

Prussik - 22-9-2015 at 02:05 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
Well Steffen tells me that he can only leave out the VAT when shipping to dealers, but he is willing to waive the Paypal fee. I'm not really sure how kosher that is, but I'm really not in much place to argue. I want the kite and can't really get it from anywhere else, so I don't really have any recourse.

Maybe I'll email Big Mike... he's a Nasa Star dealer now.
It is a bogus argument the seller should be ashamed of knowing very well that applicability of VAT depends on whether or not the product is used in the country of origin and not on where or to whom the product is shipped. Clearly taking the customer for granted. If he does with the loot what he is supposed to do i.e. forward it to the local tax collector then it shouldn’t matter for him if he collects it or not.

bigkid - 22-9-2015 at 03:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Prussik  
Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
Well Steffen tells me that he can only leave out the VAT when shipping to dealers, but he is willing to waive the Paypal fee. I'm not really sure how kosher that is, but I'm really not in much place to argue. I want the kite and can't really get it from anywhere else, so I don't really have any recourse.

Maybe I'll email Big Mike... he's a Nasa Star dealer now.
It is a bogus argument the seller should be ashamed of knowing very well that applicability of VAT depends on whether or not the product is used in the country of origin and not on where or to whom the product is shipped. Clearly taking the customer for granted. If he does with the loot what he is supposed to do i.e. forward it to the local tax collector then it shouldn’t matter for him if he collects it or not.


Here in United States, any money or taxes collected from any customer weather in the US or outside of the US goes to the government agency that it was collected for. Which means if I sold something overseas and there was a VAT tax or a duty tax to that country I would have to pay the The money to the government. After talking to a few business owners in Europe, the VAT tax needs to be paid for those transactions in that particular country to those in that country. Anything outside of that is a different tax and is compiled a different way.
If the tax or duty is not collected from the country of origin then it has to be paid by the customer in that country.
Not a wonderful subject to talk about, or even to support financially, but it does have a tendency to get the dander up when the topic comes to determining whether you can afford an item or not.

bigkid - 22-9-2015 at 03:08 PM

The joke here in the United States about having a kite business, and making a little money with it is in reference to starting out with a lot of money.
More than likely it is the reason that so many kite shops today have dwindled in numbers compared to 10 to 20 years ago. I know in the Seattle area there used to be close to 18 kite shops within 20 miles of each other. Now there is less than a handful and they are mainly dealing with kite boarding and not much in regards to fix bridal kites. If it wasn't for the Internet, most kite companies would be out of business, at least the ones that are left.
Kiting is not a big a sport here in the US as it is in Europe. There are other countries where it is nonexistent.

RedSky - 22-9-2015 at 03:08 PM

If a company is VAT registered and you are a private customer outside the EU, then they must zero rate the VAT payable.

Exports and VAT in the UK - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-704-va...


soliver - 22-9-2015 at 03:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
You can fart around all you want...


Good thing I eat a high fiber diet :smilegrin:

I've got an email into Mike, we'll see what happens.

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid  
The joke here in the United States about having a kite business, and making a little money with it is in reference to starting out with a lot of money.


Jeez Jeff... You COMPLETELY murdered that joke!!! ...
To quote Angus from the first time we met: "The best way to make a small fortune selling kites is to start with a BIG fortune... Bah dum bum! :D

bigkid - 22-9-2015 at 04:49 PM

Spencer, sorry to tell you it's not a joke to some of us. But yes I did screw it up rather well;)