Power Kite Forum

Need suggestions on some ULTRA low wind kites!

IFlyKites - 11-10-2015 at 04:58 PM

Hope everyone is doing well and enjoying the weekend. I really need suggestions on some low wind kites.

Here is the thing, I have a 15m Psycho 4 and 10m Psycho 3 which usually only fly when the wind is blowing 8 knots or so, (and that is the bare minimum). They do pack on some power when the winds pick up, definitely can't say anything bad about FS. It is time though to get something for lower winds. It get's frustrating driving for an hour and trying to launch the kite in such low wind, then packing up :mad:.

Moving onto my problem, I'm looking for a FB kite, that can perform well and get me moving on a landboard at 3 knots or so. I know that doesn't sound too realistic but it really blows having such winds on the west coast.

I do have a 3m Hornet but that won't really get me moving on a landboard with our winds. I need something good for landboarding (will attach a strop line) or possibly flying static. I will consider depower. Sticking to about 500 being my limit.

Here are some kites that I'm looking at:

PL Twister 7.7m
Ozone Method 5m
PL Uniq Quad 4.5 (Might be a bit op, idk?)
Flexi Blade 4.9m/6.5m
Flexi Bullet 7m

Am I missing anything? Other suggestions would be appreciated, thanks!

Cheers,
Ari



ssayre - 11-10-2015 at 05:12 PM

I'd say blade 8.5. Affordable (used) and really a great kite. 4.9 and 6.5 wouldn't be enough imo

Feyd - 11-10-2015 at 05:30 PM

The closets thing you've listed to a 'low wind" kite is a blade.

The unfortunate reality is low wind kiting costs the most $$$. If you are willing to step up to depower a used Peak 1 9m would be a much better low wind rig than any of the options you've listed here and could be had for roughly your budget.

IFlyKites - 11-10-2015 at 05:31 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
I'd say blade 8.5. Affordable (used) and really a great kite. 4.9 and 6.5 wouldn't be enough imo


Thank Sean, I'll take that into consideration. I don't usually see Blade 8.5's often around here. I'll keep on the lookout for one though.

Cheers,
Ari

IFlyKites - 11-10-2015 at 05:35 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd  
The closets thing you've listed to a 'low wind" kite is a blade.

The unfortunate reality is low wind kiting costs the most $$$. If you are willing to step up to depower a used Peak 1 9m would be a much better low wind rig than any of the options you've listed here and could be had for roughly your budget.


A peak would be a dream to own. They probably aren't too lifty though right?

How do they compare to the PL UNIQ? I know they are both first generation kites so I can't expect too much out of performance from them. Both probably have pro's/con's.

I'm willing to sacrifice one of my kites right now for a low wind one. So If I have to sell my 3m or one of my depowers I will.

ssayre - 11-10-2015 at 05:36 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd  
The closets thing you've listed to a 'low wind" kite is a blade.

The unfortunate reality is low wind kiting costs the most $$$. If you are willing to step up to depower a used Peak 1 9m would be a much better low wind rig than any of the options you've listed here and could be had for roughly your budget.


Oh man, the elusive p1 9meter. NONE have been available used in the places I've looked. Chris, let me know if you run across one being neglected somewhere.

Feyd - 11-10-2015 at 05:48 PM

There is no comparison between the Peaks and Uniq really. Apart from being single skins, they are very different kites. You are correct, the peak 1 generates very little lift.

And the 9m is an elusive beast.

bigkid - 11-10-2015 at 05:51 PM

Ultra low wind? Low wind? Or no wind?
Here we go again with the question and the answers.
Are you in a buggy? Big one or small one? Dry lake bed surface, sand, or grass?
On the cheep end get a 15m now. Or a 12.5m century, or use a much smaller kite on longer lines.

Would someone clarify the term low wind? Drive me crazy .....

ssayre - 11-10-2015 at 05:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid  
Ultra low wind? Low wind? Or no wind?
Here we go again with the question and the answers.
Are you in a buggy? Big one or small one? Dry lake bed surface, sand, or grass?
On the cheep end get a 15m now. Or a 12.5m century, or use a much smaller kite on longer lines.

Would someone clarify the term low wind? Drive me crazy .....


Umm, he's on a landboard and it's a forum... so q and a are kind of the point :lol:

IFlyKites - 11-10-2015 at 05:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid  
Ultra low wind? Low wind? Or no wind?
Here we go again with the question and the answers.
Are you in a buggy? Big one or small one? Dry lake bed surface, sand, or grass?
On the cheep end get a 15m now. Or a 12.5m century, or use a much smaller kite on longer lines.

Would someone clarify the term low wind? Drive me crazy .....


ahaha :D. I just used the word, "ULTRA" to emphasize that the wind is very low/non existent, (I could barely feel it) Between bft 0 and 1. And I'm landboarding on grass.

I'll be on the lookout for a Century as well.

Cheers,
Ari

BeamerBob - 11-10-2015 at 06:31 PM

Truly nothing on your list is enough for three knots. You need a fixed bridle at least 10m and 14-16 would be better. I've buggied with a 10.8m PL reactor in 3-4 mph but it was a delicate balancing act to get power out of it.

Recently got an Ozone yak Gt 14m and was thrilled with the way it flew and how little wind it needed to provide power. Flying it on ~40m lines. And with all that low end it still took me to around 32 mph in my buggy on a hard beach.

An 18m phantom will also get down to 4-5 mph and will fit your budget.

IFlyKites - 11-10-2015 at 08:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  
Truly nothing on your list is enough for three knots. You need a fixed bridle at least 10m and 14-16 would be better. I've buggied with a 10.8m PL reactor in 3-4 mph but it was a delicate balancing act to get power out of it.

Recently got an Ozone yak Gt 14m and was thrilled with the way it flew and how little wind it needed to provide power. Flying it on ~40m lines. And with all that low end it still took me to around 32 mph in my buggy on a hard beach.

An 18m phantom will also get down to 4-5 mph and will fit your budget.


I tried Bladerunner's Phantom and quickly fell in love with it. That auto zenith is a dream for landboarding.

Would a Venom II compare to a Phantom in any way? I'll consider a phantom though if I find a good deal on one.

Cheers,
Ari

Windstruck - 11-10-2015 at 09:41 PM

I'm entering a little late into this thread, but I do have experience with low wind and variable wind conditions with several of the kites being discussed. I owned and quickly sold the PL Uniq Quad 4.5m. Not ready for prime time IMHO. Shows promise, but probably best to see how a posible v-2.0 might behave. I'm a huge fan of large Peak-2s for low and variable conditions. I have both the 9m and 12m P2s and swear by them. Long ago I nicknamed my 12m P2 my "session saver" The thing that is important about the P2s very large range of DP capability is that the wind you launch a big kite in may not be the wind you find yourself flying in a minute or so later. Large FB is a bit hair ball in that regard. For example, my 12.5 NS3 is one heck of a nice kite to have in the air when the wind is very light. But if the wind picks up when you've got that big a FB kite in the air things can get a bit "busy" (think: Code Brown).

The beauty of these large kites is their single skin weight. As such they launch in very little wind down at the ground, enabling you access the skies and get some pulling done. As noted, the rub is the $$$. Large kites, large bucks. Hard to get around that. Good luck!

IFlyKites - 11-10-2015 at 09:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
I'm entering a little late into this thread, but I do have experience with low wind and variable wind conditions with several of the kites being discussed. I owned and quickly sold the PL Uniq Quad 4.5m. Not ready for prime time IMHO. Shows promise, but probably best to see how a posible v-2.0 might behave. I'm a huge fan of large Peak-2s for low and variable conditions. I have both the 9m and 12m P2s and swear by them. Long ago I nicknamed my 12m P2 my "session saver" The thing that is important about the P2s very large range of DP capability is that the wind you launch a big kite in may not be the wind you find yourself flying in a minute or so later. Large FB is a bit hair ball in that regard. For example, my 12.5 NS3 is one heck of a nice kite to have in the air when the wind is very light. But if the wind picks up when you've got that big a FB kite in the air things can get a bit "busy" (think: Code Brown).

The beauty of these large kites is their single skin weight. As such they launch in very little wind down at the ground, enabling you access the skies and get some pulling done. As noted, the rub is the $$$. Large kites, large bucks. Hard to get around that. Good luck!


Thanks for the informative reply Steve! I noticed you have quite the collection of Peaks :o Would you be willing to ever sell them off? If so, I would be happy to take care of them for you :D

Windstruck - 12-10-2015 at 06:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by IFlyKites  


Thanks for the informative reply Steve! I noticed you have quite the collection of Peaks :o Would you be willing to ever sell them off? If so, I would be happy to take care of them for you :D


Send me a U2U when the Peak-3s inevitably come out! :lol:

Until then, you know what they say about prying my cold, dead fingers...

soliver - 12-10-2015 at 09:24 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  

Send me a U2U when the Peak-3s inevitably come out! :lol:

Until then, you know what they say about prying my cold, dead fingers...


Dibs on the 12m at the super low, good buddy, President of the JWC price :smilegrin:

ssayre - 12-10-2015 at 09:26 AM

9m dibbs :D

IFlyKites - 12-10-2015 at 09:28 AM

Dibs on 6m :D

Windstruck - 12-10-2015 at 11:13 AM

What? No dibs on my 4m? :lol:

Bladerunner - 12-10-2015 at 01:29 PM

Sorry I am late here.

Garry Point is very frustrating. The park is too small on most winds to take advantage of really huge kites.

Here are the low wind kites I have experience with there.

Fixed Bridle : Big foils like the Yak, Century in 14 - 16m ... Tooo big for the park. No room to build up speed or deal with the big slow turns. Biggest kites that fit In My Humble Experience. 10.8 Reactors, 10m Reflex, 9 / 8.5 Blades. Being small I find I get overpowered too soon with these large foils. Again the room is limited. 8m is actually a pretty good low wind size for here due to the speed.

8.5m Cquad. It's broken but works well.

Depower foils: My 19m is too large for the park most days. 12 - 15m non ultra light fabric foils need more than 3kts..

Arcs: A bit like 12 - 15m foils they need a good 3kts.

So, from what I have my big Speed is the hands down winner ( for me ) but it doesn't fit our small parks. My 18m Phantom isn't exactly a " day saver " but a most pleasing low wind kite once it's flying. 8.5 Cquad works well, I must get it repaired. 9m Blade has it's place when it's muddy. A good low wind kite but old and soft.

I have no experience with the Venom's but it sounds like some of the newer arcs have = if not better low end than my Phantom?

Bottom line: Vancouver is FAR from ideal as far as a land kiting location. Working a ride out of " sucker winds " is like work!

Contact Oldfart . I know Mike bought an 8.5 Blade and I am not sure how much of his gear he is holding on to? You are welcome to use my 9m Blade over the winter. A kite you can get dirty and wet without worry.

Feyd - 12-10-2015 at 02:41 PM

Good God man you just got that 4m! :D

rofer - 12-10-2015 at 02:55 PM

Wow, what's going on here? Not a single mention of some kind of nasa wing? If you're looking for cheap and low-wind performance I doubt you can do any better than either a NPW or one of the Nasa Stars.

That being said they still require some wind. I know I often find I can't keep my 8.5m NS3 off the ground because I'm trying to fly in either no wind or in wind that has the kite blowing towards me half the time. If you conditions are like that I'm pretty sure no kite will work. At best you can put it on some long line and hopefully get it to some nice clean wind.

If you've got a spot where you have a really steady 3 knots though I'm sure a nasa wing will get you moving.

pstkk - 12-10-2015 at 03:03 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  

Oh man, the elusive p1 9meter. NONE have been available used in the places I've looked. Chris, let me know if you run across one being neglected somewhere.


Flysurfer currently have two Peak1 9m demo versions in their webshop from Germany: http://shop.flysurfer.com/2n-hand/kites.html. They remove tax (19%) for orders outside the EU.

I would not recommend it for use in 3 knots though.

ssayre - 12-10-2015 at 03:10 PM

Quote: Originally posted by pstkk  
Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  

Oh man, the elusive p1 9meter. NONE have been available used in the places I've looked. Chris, let me know if you run across one being neglected somewhere.


Flysurfer currently have two Peak1 9m demo versions in their webshop from Germany: http://shop.flysurfer.com/2n-hand/kites.html. They remove tax (19%) for orders outside the EU.

I would not recommend it for use in 3 knots though.


Thanks! I wouldn't expect it to do anything but remain in the bag at 3 knots. I'm looking at having a little more power in that 8-14 knot range.

ssayre - 12-10-2015 at 04:22 PM

Pretty sure something from Germany is headed my way. :thumbup:

Windstruck - 12-10-2015 at 04:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd  
Good God man you just got that 4m! :D


No worries Chris! I love that little guy, even having flown it only once so far (see video below). By all rights I could (should) have flown it yesterday!

So here's the thing: I've known me well over five decades at this point and I've sort of learned how I roll. When the P3s do come out I will get itchy! Here's how I see it going down: You test the P3s, tell us they are great and a modest improvement over prior models. I sell my P2s and buy a new quiver from you!


soliver - 13-10-2015 at 04:41 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Pretty sure something from Germany is headed my way. :thumbup:


Sean,... you get one?!?!?! SWEEET!

Windstruck - 13-10-2015 at 04:48 AM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Pretty sure something from Germany is headed my way. :thumbup:


Sean,... you get one?!?!?! SWEEET!


I saw that tease! What's the word, bird?

3shot - 13-10-2015 at 08:52 AM

Yes. What's the news Sean?? 9m Peak1, or 10m NS???

ssayre - 13-10-2015 at 10:35 AM

P1 9m. Still waiting on order confirmation. I had been selling some stuff so I had most of it covered.

Tough decision between it and star. I think it will have close to same low end as the 10m star because my p1 6 has same low end as 7 star. Only the single skin king can answer that question. Some call him Steve. :)

Windstruck - 13-10-2015 at 12:03 PM

Hardly the King! Now that's funny. I never flew a single skin before this year. The more I've flown both the P2s and the NS3s the more I'm liking...... both! When the wind is clean it is a real joy to fly the STARS in the buggy. Just sort of a sweet deal to have chosen the right size kite for the conditions getting it up in the air, plunking your seat meat down in your ride and taking off. The Park-and-Ride characteristics in clean wind just don't have a parallel.

Now.... if the wind is janky (read: most times) then the winner by a nose are the Peaks. Hard to beat their power scrub when you need it most.

I'm heading to Las Vegas next month for a conference and am looking to get out a few afternoons to Lake Ivanpah. Looking like I'll be able to hook up with BeamerBob which would be AWESOME. I'm day dreaming of trying out both the STARS and Peaks in that setting which will be my first time ever with longer than 200 yards of straightaway before needing to turn around and the first time ever as well to get some clean buggy wind not blasted to bits by mountains, trees, and buildings.

3shot - 13-10-2015 at 12:14 PM

Congrats Sean!

Demoknight - 16-10-2015 at 05:43 PM

Nobody mentioned the big Speeds because I guess they are out of your budget, but the only thing I have flown that would pull anything at all in 3mph was my 19m S3 Deluxe. There were two times during JIBE that I was the only person flying, and getting decent park and ride upwind action at that. 12m P2 was flying, but not pulling upwind. I say save a little more money and just get a big brown bastard used like I did and you have your high wind machine right there. Plus they have a huge wind range anyway and you can use a 19-21m Speed 3 up into the high teens even for the feint of heart. Low 20s if you are feeling frisky.

Bladerunner - 16-10-2015 at 09:01 PM

Windstruck, You are going to have your ultimate expectations met. Nothing beats a trip to the dry lake other than sharing the dry lake. Having Bob there will be huge for getting comfortable with the place + building confidence. :cool:

Demon, I did mention my 1st hand experience with my 19m SA2 in our park. I agree that it is my " day saver " kite. Problem is the park Ifly and I use is too small and crowded to really take advantage of it.

After years of chasing our " sucker winds " I have decided it is more frustrating than fun. Even on those days I manage to work a ride out it feels like sex without climax when done. These days I don't go out until the weather network says it's going to blow strong enough to get my Phanny' to self inflate ! ;)