Power Kite Forum

Selling kites to the general populous

MotoFoo86 - 13-10-2015 at 07:07 PM

Have to rank somewhere to people that will understand, maybe some of you know this pain and will understand.

So the quick story is i'm replacing my whole quiver. Have them for sale here, craiglist (where there is a disclaimer about me not being willing to sell another bigger than a 3.5 to a newbie), nwkite, everywhere i could think of. Got a call the other night from a gentleman (at 10:30, first bad sign) thinking about getting into the sport. Being the ambassador that i am, i'm happy to welcome him.

Shows up today, no idea about kiting, no interest in a trainer. Wants to buy my 8 which i attempt to politely decline. Offers me $200 for it. I'm asking twice that, on top of that i wouldn't sell it to him even if he gave me asking. I am not willing to be responsible for his death.....

Anyhow, bad taste in my mouth, frustrated. Rant over

volock - 13-10-2015 at 07:26 PM

Thank you for being responsible, I greatly appreciate it!

I had someone on CL locally selling a 11m FB (Pansch Ace) and was willing to sell to just anyone. When I tried to talk him into a trade or considering being more select, he got angry, and said that it was their own fault it it flung them in the air or almost killed them (which is what happened to him, buying it and trying it out in 20mph wind). I almost bought it, not because I wanted it, but to get it off the market for others safety. He just wanted too much for it, given it had two broken knotted back together lines and pinhole from the chainlink fence it landed on.

People who don't know definitely leave a bad taste, and it's hard to decide what to do. Especially knowing the LEI guys (excluding forum members here) often have no qualms about doing it and letting people make big mistakes

MotoFoo86 - 13-10-2015 at 09:20 PM

Everyone draws their own line in the sand, I one before stood by when someone else was doing something dangerous (pulling an inner tube around a parking lot behind their truck on snow) only to see that one of the people involved was killed. That will always stick with me.

He'll find someone else at that price range with less morals or less life experience.

As for the lei guys I've had alot of experiences both ways. I've had kiteboarders refuse to sell me kites because I've not flown lei's before. Guess I was over their line.

bigkid - 13-10-2015 at 09:47 PM

I tip my hat to you for, in simple words, having the balls and saying "NO".
being a distributor, dealer, shop owner, and a grandfather, the words "no deal" is part of the job. not what the pocket says, but the reality non the less.

along the same lines I have been asked dozens of times if I have a patent on my AQR, no I dont. do you sell the system? yes I do, in 2 parts. think I want to sell you (the general public) my AQR as 1 system so you can install it the wrong way, get hurt and end up in court? loose sleep over an idiot that installed his system the wrong way and ended up dead?

Sorry for the rant, GOOD JOB MotoFoo86. :thumbup:

MotoFoo86 - 13-10-2015 at 09:57 PM

Thanks bigkid, I'm not looking for praise. Sad that we live in a world where people are no longer responsible for their own stupidity.

Feyd - 14-10-2015 at 01:09 AM

Its a tough call for sure. But as you pointed out, as we are all ambassadors to the sport we have a responsibility to keep things safe. And protect it from those who take no responsibility.

Craigslist (like EBay but worse IMO) is a bad channel to off load kites (or almost anything) in it seems. No lack of kooks and impulse buyers.

Someone died near in the winter on a kite they had purchase used. They weren't experienced enough to use the kite safely and have respect for the gear or the conditions. Nor did they heed repeated recommendations from those who knew them to come see us for some instruction. They figured 'they would figure it out."

They guy that sold them the kite was devastated. He's one of the nicest guys you'd ever meet, great kiter, 16years water and snow experience. Never would have imagined this outcome. Took him a long time to get over what had happened. Took us a long time to convince him that it wasn't his fault. A man died, and the seller felt responsible.

Most of the kites we sell go to our students. We get a fair number of on line sales and they all seem to be from dedicated kiters who are serious about the sport. I don't worry about those people. Its mostly people in the used market that you have to be wary of.

Selling in places like PKF offers peace of mind. Most buyers will ask around about stuff before they dive in. And if a newbie sets off a red flag or two they'll get straighted out by the forum members. Usually with good results.

Bladerunner - 14-10-2015 at 04:33 AM

Huge Prop's Moto! :cool:

What is real sad is that Pansh will sell this guy and any other misfit any size kite he wants! :(

At the end of the day you have to go to bed with yourself. YOU can sleep well knowing you did the right thing. :thumbup:

ssayre - 14-10-2015 at 05:34 AM

my kites have all sold on here, so I haven't seen the need to use another outlet. Sometimes it takes a couple days and sometimes it takes 6 months, but they will sell. There is no market in my local area for kites so it's not tempting for me to list anything locally.

indigo_wolf - 14-10-2015 at 06:01 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  

What is real sad is that Pansh will sell this guy and any other misfit any size kite he wants! :(


I think that's a bit unfair..... Pansh is a likely candidate for new flyers with suicidal tendencies purely because of their price point.

For the "more money than sense" crowd, any manufacturer that sells direct is susceptible to the same dangers. As long as the credit line allows, I suspect that buying a Switch Nitro 4 in any inappropriate size would be infinitely doable.

Lack of stock and possibly early stages of sticker shock is the only thing stopping the natural born thrillseeker from get an Flexifoil Blade in their favorite widowmaker colors.

Even reputable dealers can do little to stop buying things that may kill/maim them unless the buyer calls to inquired. The online cart doesn't care if you are underinsured or not.

In the past, Into the Wind wouldn't sell you a power kite above 3m without a signed waiver accompanying your order. I am no longer seeing that restriction, so I suspect they got pushback.

Fun With Wind used to steer their prospective Blade buyers towards Stings/Rages, if they were new to kiting, but their current general warning would be easy for people to miss.

Quote:

These Quad Line kites are used mainly for kite extreme sports like kite buggying, snow kiting and kite landboarding. Most available in a choice of control bar or handles. These kites are for serious flyers, beginners should start with a trainer kite followed by lessons from a certified instructor.


Wish there was a way to make the "Gravity Always Wins thread a sticky.

ATB,
Sam

PHREERIDER - 14-10-2015 at 06:23 AM

now thats evolved, empathy like that IS NOT common.

protecting the stranger...definitely hero material!

PHREERIDER - 14-10-2015 at 06:34 AM





" Wish there was a way to make the "Gravity Always Wins thread a sticky.

ATB,
Sam "

...and without celebration will give back to the earth those who fail choice and reason, and foolishly wield their free will

BeamerBob - 14-10-2015 at 08:06 AM

Yeah. Two sides to this. Most anyone with a credit card can place an order for whatever they want. Jeff's principals are pretty uncommon outside our little circle here. Pansh is not a demon here. And from my "Gravity always wins" debacle, people can misrepresent their experience level, thereby using that free will that we humans are so well known for.

BigMikesKites - 14-10-2015 at 08:15 AM

Good job and thanks. People who don't know...don't know. they just think bigger is better and that is that.

MotoFoo86 - 14-10-2015 at 01:46 PM

Well.... Bigger IS better.... Once you can use it. Nothing like falling slowly to the ground with a huge kite above you to bring you down soft.

Those 5-6m kite jumps are always the ones that scare me most, scoop your right up, and then set you down with no mercy! However, I also know the limits, when I shouldn't be on that big lofty thing, and when I shouldn't be flying.

MotoFoo86 - 14-10-2015 at 08:43 PM

Speaking of this issue, i leave this to forum opinion. A gentleman from Vancouver, BC contacted me today interested in clearing out the rest of my quiver (only notable kite is the HQ toxic). He didn't seem to express any knowledge in the first email, after i refused sale of the toxic to him he replied with:

"
Hi
I have 6 HQ foil kites
2 of them are trainer kites
1 is a 4 line tee bar
The other is 4 line HQ Beamer
I fly my kites three times a week
My wife thinks it's a little much but I find wind speeds of 10 to 15 very enjoyable"

I'm on the fence wither to buy his story or not. Perhaps i'll see what happens when he shows up. Opinions?

Bladerunner - 15-10-2015 at 04:16 AM

Curious ?

Vancouver doesn't have a lot of pilots and we pretty much have only 1 ideal traction kiting park. This couple don't sound familiar and I don't recognize the quiver?

That said, We have plenty of low wind days that a pilot would enjoy an 8m Toxic ?

Ask what park they fly in. If they don't fly in either Vanier or Garry Point parks then they are surely flying in a small gusty location.

Also curious that somebody trying to prove skill would do so by bragging about the number of kites they have? I would be telling you how many hours of fly time I have with my quiver.

Dayhiker - 15-10-2015 at 06:01 AM

When I first started reading various kite forums I thought it was interesting that people would list their kites at the footer of their posts. A bit later, when I joined & began posting, I did not have many kites to list, nor were they worthy of mention. As time passed & my collection turned into "The Hoard". I did not want to list as if I were bragging. But now I finally see the value of the listing. All the many various kites listed are still not familiar to me but I can look them up to learn more about them. Shoot, I just learned what LEI means. This is all part of the progression of learning as I go deeper into the KiteLife. Thanks to my kite friends I have been careful & safe. I have some fine kites now but I am still building up air time, or time on the lines. Great topic here. I continue to read & learn. Thanks, SHBKF

edit: So I added my list of power oriented kites, did not include big stacks of dualies or smaller Rev stacks. All flown static on handles at this time. Have a couple older buggies but have not done anything significant with them yet.

re-edit: list removed, back to reading, very much to learn still.

ssayre - 15-10-2015 at 06:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Dayhiker  
When I first started reading various kite forums I thought it was interesting that people would list their kites at the footer of their posts. A bit later, when I joined & began posting, I did not have many kites to list, nor were they worthy of mention. As time passed & my collection turned into "The Hoard". I did not want to list as if I were bragging. But now I finally see the value of the listing. All the many various kites listed are still not familiar to me but I can look them up to learn more about them. Shoot, I just learned what LEI means. This is all part of the progression of learning as I go deeper into the KiteLife. Thanks to my kite friends I have been careful & safe. I have some fine kites now but I am still building up air time, or time on the lines. Great topic here. I continue to read & learn. Thanks, SHBKF


I also think it's great seeing what others have in their quiver. It's insight to what the individual likes to fly in their area and to try and see patterns of what veteran fliers use. Overall, it's just fun to see what other people like to fly.

Windstruck - 15-10-2015 at 06:38 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
I also think it's great seeing what others have in their quiver. It's insight to what the individual likes to fly in their area and to try and see patterns of what veteran fliers use. Overall, it's just fun to see what other people like to fly.


I'm in alignment here. It's not bragging in my opinion to list a quiver. In fact, at times it can draw birds of a feather together. Sean and I are both in a small "knitting circle" of single-skin devotees with particular focus on NPWs (particularly those made by Steffen Born) and Flysurfer Peaks.

Seeing the quiver gives you a little insight into a fellow PKF member's direction and predilections if you will. :)

MotoFoo86 - 15-10-2015 at 01:40 PM

Thanks bladerunner, sounded like he was a static flier by the way he said things. No mention of atb or buggy, not sure why anyone would want to static fly a highish ar big kite like the toxic. Sounds more like punishment than fun. At least to do it on the regular. I'll ask him where he flies, maybe I just found you a kiting buddy!

Dayhiker - 15-10-2015 at 02:21 PM

See previous post with edit. Up four from here. Added quiver list so you'll know "where I'm at". Bold stuff for an introvert like me. SHBKF

Windstruck - 15-10-2015 at 02:41 PM

@Dayhiker - see, just like that! You have a fine quiver indeed. I've always thought of stacking kites as being a cool concept and now I know you do it. How else would I have known? :D

soliver - 15-10-2015 at 03:17 PM

Ive been meaning to chime in here,... This is a good topic and kudos to you motofoo for sticking to your guns on this one.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck  
Sean and I are both in a small "knitting circle" of single-skin devotees with particular focus on NPWs (particularly those made by Steffen Born)


Ooo oooo, me too me too!!!! :D

Windstruck - 15-10-2015 at 03:25 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  


Ooo oooo, me too me too!!!! :D


Yes young Spencer, you too. I would have mentioned you as well had you chimed in sooner. :saint:

Bladerunner - 15-10-2015 at 03:45 PM

Dayhiker,

If you have a Blaze II it is a depower kite. Best flown on a depower bar. The Blaze is the kite for handles ( and kite killers ). It is fixed bridle. The difference is the bridle. The Blaze II has pulleys. LOVE the graphics.

Dayhiker - 15-10-2015 at 04:00 PM

Okay, regular Blaze, correction made. Got too many kites to remember the correct names so I just Googled the first thing that looked right. Sail image still similar I guess. Know Eye Deer. Thanks so much. Depower kites are in the future. But other priorities, like the car hobby, are interfering with kite collecting at the moment. Just ordered two diagnostic tools that used funds that would have been a nice depower set up . Kites are cheap compared to horses or horsepower... Trying to live all my dreams you see. SHBKF

Windstruck - 15-10-2015 at 04:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Dayhiker  
SHBKF


I've been cranking my brain trying to figure out what this acronym stands for. If this thread was on Extreme Kites (principally Auzies and Kiwis) I would be guessing "Should Have Been Kangaroo Food". I'm thinking it could mean something different in this case. Enquiring minds want to know! :D

soliver - 15-10-2015 at 04:16 PM

SHBKF... Southern Hill Billy Kite Flailer.... Man that's cool... I think that's suites me too

We also have SOFKA ... Southern Fried Kiting Association... I think I'm a card carrier there too.

Think we've discussed this before... Thank you for humor ing my need to be included

Love,
Your friendly JWC Prez

Dayhiker - 15-10-2015 at 04:28 PM

I was in the KiteLife chat room one night & I was falling behind due to lack of comprehension when people were using text style initialisms. So I hit them with hill billie slang, Know Eye Deer, for no idea. Some got it. Then I decided to make up my own initialism, SHBKF. Liked it so much I changed my handle to that. On the other kite forums I am still Dayhiker, which has it's own story, but I sign posts as Solo Hill Bille Kite Flailer..... SHBKF

And the avatar critter is named Allie Ann

Windstruck - 15-10-2015 at 04:29 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
SHBKF... Southern Hill Billy Kite Flailer.... Man that's cool... I think that's suites me too

We also have SOFKA ... Southern Fried Kiting Association... I think I'm a card carrier there too.

Think we've discussed this before... Thank you for humor ing my need to be included

Love,
Your friendly JWC Prez


Well Prez, I suppose that makes me a POKEY (Praire Oyster Kiting Enthusiast.... Yo). :ninja:

MotoFoo86 - 15-10-2015 at 05:34 PM

You guys are nuts... Can i remove myself as original poster to distance myself from you all :o

Windstruck - 15-10-2015 at 05:54 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MotoFoo86  
You guys are nuts... Can i remove myself as original poster to distance myself from you all :o


Wise play Moto... We are certifiable. Sorry for the thread hijack. You started a perfectly respectable thread and we went right ahead and tainted it with our dribble. Back to your regularly scheduled program. :D

MotoFoo86 - 15-10-2015 at 05:56 PM

Haha, no apologies necessary... You guys are kinda like the zoo. You like to go look at the monkeys fling poo. You don't want to join them, but it's hilarious to stand back and watch.

soliver - 15-10-2015 at 06:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by MotoFoo86  
You guys are nuts... Can i remove myself as original poster to distance myself from you all :o


:lol:... no, please stay and watch the poo flinging... you sure you don't want to try it,... its an interesting tactic experience.

@steve... POKEY.... nice :thumbup:

Dayhiker - 15-10-2015 at 07:33 PM

Know Eye Deer, sorry, well sort of. SHBKF

Bladerunner - 16-10-2015 at 03:59 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Dayhiker  
Okay, regular Blaze, correction made.


All good.

I thought for a moment that you had the depower version and were flying it with handles and kite killers. It is actually do-able so .... :duh: