Power Kite Forum - Buggies and race bars.

Buggies and race bars.

Feyd - 18-11-2015 at 05:34 PM

So I built a new race bar today. The line I used for the trim adjust is a little on the long side even by race bar standards. Got me thinking about how low you are in a buggy and confined in the #@%$#!pit. The buggy racers using depowers like Chrono and Sonic kites, are they using race bars or freeride bars?

Curious.

Feyd - 18-11-2015 at 05:35 PM

HAHAHA Apparently you can't type the word for pilot compartment in here?

cheezycheese - 18-11-2015 at 06:45 PM

Wouldn't let me type Herbie Han#@%$#! either... at first I thought it was me :lol:

I even tried to fix it a few times.
[/End thread veer]

ssayre - 18-11-2015 at 06:54 PM

https://vimeo.com/143907643

he's on new pl race depower

RedSky - 18-11-2015 at 07:38 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

HAHAHA Apparently you can't type the word for pilot compartment in here?

And you can't say George Po#@%$#! , kite buggy inventor.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Oxj09YfkE

Feyd - 19-11-2015 at 12:00 PM

Can't tell if he's on a race bar or a bar with a really long trim line. The Zeekai has a really long trim line but isn't like a race bar per se.

ssayre - 19-11-2015 at 12:13 PM

He said he made his own bar on another forum. The kite is a pl aero although it's not shown on video.

pbc - 20-11-2015 at 06:02 AM

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "race bar"? I thought we were always racing. Were the rest of you not racing? ;-)

Or perhaps I finally see why I disliked every commercial bar I used: I was racing with bars designed for something else. So what is the something else? My guess is freestyle flying on water and land, but it is only a guess.

What distinguishes a race bar from a non-race bar? Enquiring minds want to know.

Windstruck - 20-11-2015 at 06:45 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pbc

Enquiring minds want to know.

Exactly

BeamerBob - 20-11-2015 at 06:55 AM

Ok, I don't feel so inadequate now. Yes Phillip, it's always a race.

Windstruck - 20-11-2015 at 07:05 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

Ok, I don't feel so inadequate now. Yes Phillip, it's always a race.

From my Avatar you can see that for certain sports I am clearly in alignment. I'm new this year to buggying and other mobile traction kite sports and I've been far more of a cruiser than racer to date. I slammed my buggy into a soccer goal post earlier this year, got dragged down an embankment and tore myself up quite nicely, sort of putting a damper on the whole racing aspect of kiting for me at this point. Speed thrills, but for now I'm highly content cruising in the buggy. Yes, cruising quite quickly, but I can hardly call it racing. :karate:

ssayre - 20-11-2015 at 07:23 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob

Ok, I don't feel so inadequate now. Yes Phillip, it's always a race.

interested to know what makes race bar as well.

After Spencer and I's "race" last year and his subsequent accident, I have been quite content to cruise along and relax and not worry about clocking myself or beating any personal bests. I just enjoy getting out and manipulating what mother nature has in store for me for the day.

Demoknight - 20-11-2015 at 09:39 AM

As far as I know, a race bar is more about the depower trim than the bar itself. The trim line is very long and you hold it in your hand with the bar so you don't have to reach up to adjust the trim.

Feyd - 20-11-2015 at 11:28 AM

I'd send a pic but I'm away with work. Demo is correct, also allows for very easy and fine adjustment of the trim via a multi-pulley system.

pbc - 20-11-2015 at 03:05 PM

Thank you all for those very entertaining and occasionally informative responses.

Looking at the video of Ozzy above it reminds me of the way I used to sail catamarans--with the mainsheet in my hand at all times in almost continual adjustment. I can't decide if that would be really handy, really annoying or both. It's easy to adjust, but completely incompatible with bar spin. So maybe you're not supposed to spin the bar?**

In my next batch of bars I plan to make the trim line tail disconnected as in Ozzy's rig, but it would be "stowable" via velcro just below at the cleat. I had not planned to make it as long as Ozzy's. I doubt I will, but this is certainly food for thought.

Thanks for the input and snarky commentary. Chris, I'm looking forward to a picture.

Philip

**"You're holding it wrong" --Steve Jobs

RedSky - 20-11-2015 at 03:36 PM

So a race bar is one with below bar trim ?

pbc - 20-11-2015 at 06:57 PM

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky

So a race bar is one with below bar trim ?

Look at the opening still image at https://vimeo.com/143907643. The cleat is above the bar in the standard above-bar position. The end of the trim line is below the bar...

...as long as he hangs on to the line.

Philip

Feyd - 20-11-2015 at 08:36 PM

Trim is above bar but can be kept in hand at all times and held well below the bar. Im working on two, one FLS and one with a 4.5 line safety.

Will post pics when I get home.

TEDWESLEY - 21-11-2015 at 08:41 AM

The mantra in sailing sports has always been "two sailors in sight of each other constitutes a race".
Even a "cruiser" pays more attention to his trim and speed when anyone else is in sight.
Of course when the other guy blows by you.... "Oh I was just cruising"

RedSky - 21-11-2015 at 08:53 AM

Quote: Originally posted by pbc

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky

So a race bar is one with below bar trim ?

thanks! pictures are worth a thousand words.

Feyd - 22-11-2015 at 05:13 PM

Pic of the bar I just put together.

Feyd - 22-11-2015 at 05:28 PM

Ozone's bar and how it works.

https://youtu.be/zYkyEXfbRxE

pbc - 22-11-2015 at 08:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

Ozone's bar and how it works.

https://youtu.be/zYkyEXfbRxE

Veeeeery helpful. The related videos are also good.

I went to the cleat for trim control in part because the strap was too far away and dangerous to reach when you need to reach it the most. Yet even with the cleat trim, there are moments where I have rode out the gusts overpowered rather then pull the trim in lest I make a mistake and make things worse in the process. This rig would make a trim adjustment possible.

I worry about the end of the trim line causing trouble, but I think I'm going to have to try this.

Philip

Feyd - 23-11-2015 at 06:20 AM

Over the years there have been many times where I either missed a really good gust to get speed, because of not being able to adjust the trim in time, or got uncomfortably close to disaster in a gust because of the lag between getting hit and getting to the trim. Not to mention having to off weight and reach up to get the trim which can be hazardous in certain situations.

The long trim line has not been an issue for me in anyway on skis. Maybe because it can be in my hand comfortably 90% of the time while I'm riding. It's rare that I let it hang. But when I have I haven't had any issues. And even if I had, for my tastes and needs, it would be a worthwhile trade off. The bar I just made is running an uncoated, thinner trim than you would get on the Ozone OEM race bar. Less likely to build power when whipping during bar spins. In the cold the coated line gets a little stiff and can build some momentum as it comes around. Not really a problem, just wanted to make something a little different and see how it fairs.

I've never liked the strap trims. Always twist in the buckle, lock up and disable the trim until you can stop and un-jam the twisted trap in the buckle. Not to mention the often limited adjustment they offer. Take Arcs for example. The Bars that came with them underutilized the amount of depow range of those kites. Longer throw and cleat made all off the Arc a lot more fun.