Born-Kite NS3 Makes for a Great Snowkite Engine

Quote: Originally posted by lunchbox

Sweet...never tried snow kiting but it's a bucket list item for sure. Got any pics to share? Didn't realize you have the whole range of Nasa Star's. Got the 4 and 7 coming but if I like them, I will probably want something bigger. If that's the case, I'll reach out to you regarding the differences between the 10 and 12.

The 4 and 7 NS3s are a great starter set! By the look of your quiver you too have the tendency to gather some toys about you.

I have found the NS3s to be really pleasing kites. Very predictable in flight, easily controllable, and a nice combination of qualities all around. A great deal of my flying (all the time in the buggy and a blend when I'm snowkiting) is in highly confined spaces with obstacles all around (school soccer fields, athletic facility fields, etc) plus I'm in my mid-50s, so I don't want to be boosted one inch off of the ground. NS3s are great in that regard as they provide almost exclusively pull but not lift. Of course you can get lifted with the right combination of wind, kite size, and pilot error, but with proper sizing and the willingness to pull the plug and get the kite down in a hurry that becomes a pretty rare occasion.

The big drawback of NS3s are their individual versatility. Compared to, say, the Peak-2 DPs you would need to have perhaps three NS3s to cover the same wind range as a single P2. So... lots of FB single skin NPWs in a quiver! I have a range of stuff sacks of incremental sizes all labeled with their kite sizes that I carry around in a single large volume backpack (all nine of them) and use a single adjustable-width bar. Please feel free to reach out about the larger sizes; I believe I may be the only one that comments in the Born-Kite threads here on PK that owns the 12.5. I know Spencer (soliver) recently procured the 10m. Whupp! :karate:

I would suggest perusing our General Born-Kite thread for more information; we hash out all this and more throughout those fine pages! :D

And yes, pics will come by and by. I've got to work out some details to get some varying camera angles in the snow beyond the single helmet cam view.

One additional note is that I actually landed the 12.5m, put it away, and got out the 10.0m. The winds were rising to dangerous levels for the 12.5 and I had to get it down before things got ugly. That is a whole lot of FB to handle in too much wind for its size and I was getting spooked. Had I been on a wide open plane I would likely have kept it in the air and just sped up, but I was on some athletic fields behind our local middle school that have fences, play structures, and a stray parking lot or two next to them that some knuckle heads put in my way (what were they thinking?). The 10.0m worked well but then the wind died down for a spell plus I was running out of time so I pulled the plug after a few laps. Nothing like inland storm driven jank to keep a boy busy!

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Excellent Steve. I like the credits towards the middle, then showing the wind blowing the snow around when you were packing up. What was the temperature like?

Thanks Sean! Car thermometer was reading 20 F. Wind chill, who knows. Wild weather yesterday. In the space of two hours we had repeated bouts of pelting snow, gusts, lulls, sun, you name it. The back end footage is actually me putting out my 4m. I added that footage to fill out the song and because it sort of showed it like it is setting up a kite in the deep snow when the wind is howling. I had it in mind originally to launch the 5.5m but once I got things all in place I found that my red-side bridle was all screwed up and it was not going to get fixed in the field (I wasn't about to go to bare skin on my hands which is what it was going to take). The 5.5 is the 1000% sped up action in the beginning. The mistake I made is sizing down instead of up when I couldn't launch the 5.5. The 4m was way underpowered and was what I had up in the air when I was holding the camera on the extension stick in my hand. Got that down in a hurry and got out the 7m. Except for the strongest gusts I really could have skied with the 8.5m.

Still a learning curve for me getting the sizes right for the varying snow conditions. Yesterday we had powder over my knee in places but it was so wind blown that it was compact and provided a lot of resistance to the skis and I needed a lot of kite to really get moving. On those same exact fields in my buggy with those winds I would have had the 3.2m up and gotten one heck of a ride with a lot of side pull.

I ain't complaining, it's all just a fun learning curve!

Quote: Originally posted by Randy

Steve - for the same kite size what takes more wind to get going - buggy or snow ski? Alternatively, for the same amount of wind, what takes a bigger kite? (Academic question, since we seldom get snow in Georgia, and when we do the roads are usually completely backed up with abandoned cars, and wrecks.)

Depends a lot on surface for answering that Randy. Dry snow/compacted, skis need a bit less power to get going fast (in my experience), but it's close. You get deep snow, and you need more power than buggy. I say this normally buggying on grass with little experience on other surfaces for the buggy, so take that with a grain of salt.

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington

It's 68 in Boston now.. headed to 70....Crap! People have their X-mass shorts on. Ummmm....snow looks good there... Great for you...sad for me! How bout any nearby open hills(treeless) to go on? Almost seems I'm looking at some kind of hills/slopes that are pretty white nearby..? Which takes more wind? Ice, Hard pack, Bullet proof, Unbreakable crust...you will rocket. Deep snow, wet snow, you will drag. So, yeah..depends. If you usually have great conditions- cold, dry, deep and loose snows- you will need MORE power mostly....a lot more than a buggy on hard sand, anyway.

Believe me, I've been looking at all sorts of sites too! We have a huge amount of open space around where I live that is covered with large sagebrush bushes. The snow pack is now plenty deep enough to ride where there is open land with grass or rock/dirt, but not yet deep enough to cover the sage. Once the sage gets covered the options really open up.

Agreed with what has been stated about resistance versus buggy. Deep wind-compacted snow like I was in yesterday takes a lot of kite upsizing compared to buggying on grass with BigFoot tires, really about twice the square footage of a FB kite.

Quote: Originally posted by OCFlyer7

Sounds great to be able to at least get some snowkiting in. Have you had a chance to check out Strawberry or Skyline yet or other good spots near you? I need to come out to your neck of the woods soon, not much snow here in Orange County.

Not yet, but I'm fixin' to do so sooner than later. A major issue for me is time. My kite endeavors are solo activities and I need to stay balanced with family time. I ski both weekend days with my daughter and bride and the limited snowkiting I've bagged to date have been either after we get home from skiing late in the afternoon or as it was this week when for a few days it was too windy to ski (but perfect for kiting!). Strawberry is over an hour drive away as is Skyline so that would have me gone doing my own thing for a minimum of 4-5 hours. Kind of stuff divorces are made of.... What I'm hoping for is about two more feet of base snow that settles in on top of the sagebrush that grows locally. Once that happens there will be spots within 0-15 minutes away to get out in the open. Stuff dreams are made of.

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddarhead

Thanks for sharing your vid Steve! As your finding out on your own, many different power requirements depending on surface. Deep snow is much like water, lots of power needed to go upwind. Bare ice requires no more than a shopping bag to get speed. Jealous of your snow:P Think I'll get the buggy back out while we wait for snow and ice:D

Thanks Cheddar! I feel bad for all you guys in the more Eastern part of the country. Winter so far just isn't for you guys. Hopefully the switch will get thrown and you'll get the cold temps and the snow you deserve. Merry Christmas!