Power Kite Forum

4-line kite for static flying (2m or 4m?)

crc301 - 31-1-2016 at 10:36 AM

I have a Prism Tantrum 250 kite. It's a 2-line bar-type trainer and I'm looking to get my next kite and I want it to be a 4-line.

I am 170lbs and was flying the Tantrum 250 in 10-15mph winds with 20-25mph gusts yesterday. During the 10-15mph times it was great and strong pull but not overpowering. However, it was pulling super hard in the center of the wind window during the gusts (I retreated to zenith or edges as quickly as possible when they came). I realized toward the end of the session that I was more comfortable with the kite during the gusts once I started leaning back and using my body as counterweight (As long as I knew they were coming).

The Tantrum 250 doesn't have sail area stats online but I did measurements on own and I came up with a 1.6 m^2 area.

I've been looking at the HQ Beamer VI 3.0m recently but am now wondering if that will be too much kite for me above 10mph winds? Should I be looking at the 2.0m Beamer or will the 3.0m be fine after I gain more experience/confidence (plus it has brake lines which my current kite does not).

ssayre - 31-1-2016 at 11:02 AM

Where are you located? Beach or inland? You can't go wrong with a 3m in my opinion.

Bladerunner - 31-1-2016 at 11:24 AM

No single kite can do it all.

You need to ask yourself what you are after. Power or stunt qualities.

In general I find that small kites like 2m 4 line fly extremely fast though the window . They deliver power spurts. They turn super fast but are just big enough to be controllable. They fly very early and can be taken into very strong winds. Great for stunt flying.

At about 3m the kite slows down a bit and starts to act more grown up. It flies and turns a bit slower but delivers real power strokes through the window. That longer more powerful stroke of power is what you want if you want some horsepower to scud down wind and stuff. 3m is still small enough you can force it to fly very early. When the wind picks up or is gusty it will be much less forgiving.

Personally, I say to go with 3m .

crc301 - 31-1-2016 at 11:58 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
Where are you located? Beach or inland? You can't go wrong with a 3m in my opinion.


I'm inland (Ohio).

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
...
You need to ask yourself what you are after. Power or stunt qualities.
...


That's a hard one for me. Right now, I want some power but mostly want to do stunts and just have a fun time flying it without being worried about it throwing me around a lot (and I'm NOT interested in jumping at all). I will probably progress eventually to want some stronger pull. Here's a a video of the 3m that got me excited about it and shows some of the 'tricks' that I'd like to do: https://youtu.be/tHm78N-1V5w?t=1m

I did notice that the guy was sitting down/leaning most of the time and the wind was about 10mph. Maybe I should try that!

I'm leaning towards the 3m because I'm worried if I get the 2m I'll just end up wanting the 3m later on once I get better.

ssayre - 31-1-2016 at 12:21 PM

You will want the 3. Your wind is most likely the same as mine and the 3 will afford more days you can fly IMO. Wind can be of and on and light in the summer. The extra sail will keep you flying on light days and you will push the upper limits the more you fly giving you a very wide range for static fly.

IFlyKites - 31-1-2016 at 12:24 PM

According to what you want to use it for, definitely get the 3m. You can't go wrong with it! It'll be perfect for looping and figure-eights.

Once you get into the the 4 or 5 m + range they are preferably used for buggying/landboarding/jumping. 3m is a friendly all year round kite that you could definitely feel the power through. It gives a constant pull if winds hold up and will pull you a bit, but not to the point where you get tired of flying static compared to a 5m. Great for those lighter wind days as well, (not as much pull but still fun to fly)!

HQ Beamers are nice kites! Have you taken a look at the Peter Lynn 3m Hornet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIpYUVHj9Sg

I own the 3m Hornet and don't think I will ever sell it. It's too perfect! On the days where there is too much wind, I'll take it out. Really good intro to 4-line flying as well. Either way, you can't go wrong with either of the kites.

abkayak - 31-1-2016 at 12:37 PM

Everyone needs a 3m kite...but I can tell you should pbly buy both

Bladerunner - 31-1-2016 at 12:41 PM

When winds or gusts get so strong to feel like you are having an unsafe experience you will always have the Tantrum.

With the 3m you will get that raw power you NEED to lean back against for a more prolonged power stroke. When you get used to it you will be able to use that power to scud down wind.

The whole trick with avoiding the " Superman " is to keep your feet pushed out in front of you and center of mass low. Sitting is a good way of doing that to the extreme. Try it, you may like it but I prefer to wear out the souls of my shoes than my pants?

Being able to go back to your Tantrum in strong wind will show you why it is an appropriate name. It will seem like a little kite having a tantrum. It will also assure you that you would not have enjoyed a 2m as much as a 3.

Notice how 4m isn't being brought into the equation!

ssayre - 31-1-2016 at 01:06 PM

I will probably get some hate on this but I wouldn't get a Beamer for fun static flying. I've owned many brands and I find Hq lines to be the worst. They are not slick at all which is annoying when static flying tricks is the goal. Beamers fly good but lines no good IMO.

ssayre - 31-1-2016 at 01:26 PM

I'm only referring to Hq lines on fixed bridles. I have not used the lines that come with their depowers.

abkayak - 31-1-2016 at 03:05 PM

Ssayre..your right..on the hate anyway
Hq lines are colored and stiff..great for starting out
I kinda thought had a coating and were pretty slick?
Flexies are white and soft...not so good for starting out
Just being a contrarin...maybe?

ssayre - 31-1-2016 at 03:14 PM

Maybe just my experience. I had a beamer and a toxic. lines were the same on both. The lines seemed to only tolerate one loop and slide nicely. Second loop and they were grabbing much harder than the pl, flexi, and ozone sets I've had. Could be just me or just got unlucky with the sets. I u2u another member to remain unnamed and he confirmed what I found.

ssayre - 31-1-2016 at 03:15 PM

but yes, definitely trying to start some crap :evil:

abkayak - 31-1-2016 at 03:28 PM

:thumbup:...good job

ssayre - 31-1-2016 at 03:43 PM

thank you :)

Personally, I don't like to buy anything "normal" I would really like to try out that sexy new pkd pro 3m

WELDNGOD - 31-1-2016 at 04:02 PM

You mean this one?
https://vimeo.com/145024222
vlcsnap-2015-10-13-20h34m28s68.jpg - 184kB

ssayre - 31-1-2016 at 04:09 PM

Yes!! Dumb question, where does one buy one? Does bigkid sell them?

WELDNGOD - 31-1-2016 at 04:13 PM

:D that is where I got mine. Had it "hand delivered" @ WWBB too!

WELDNGOD - 31-1-2016 at 04:14 PM

I still need to get a 2.2 PRO. They aren't making a 1.5m version:mad:

3shot - 31-1-2016 at 04:15 PM

I would love a full set of those Soulflys!!!!

abkayak - 31-1-2016 at 04:27 PM

Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD  
You mean this one?
https://vimeo.com/145024222


Did you draw eyes on that?

crc301 - 31-1-2016 at 08:43 PM

Quote: Originally posted by IFlyKites  
According to what you want to use it for, definitely get the 3m. You can't go wrong with it! It'll be perfect for looping and figure-eights.

Once you get into the the 4 or 5 m + range they are preferably used for buggying/landboarding/jumping. 3m is a friendly all year round kite that you could definitely feel the power through. It gives a constant pull if winds hold up and will pull you a bit, but not to the point where you get tired of flying static compared to a 5m. Great for those lighter wind days as well, (not as much pull but still fun to fly)!

HQ Beamers are nice kites! Have you taken a look at the Peter Lynn 3m Hornet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIpYUVHj9Sg

I own the 3m Hornet and don't think I will ever sell it. It's too perfect! On the days where there is too much wind, I'll take it out. Really good intro to 4-line flying as well. Either way, you can't go wrong with either of the kites.


I did look at the Hornet but from the videos I saw it looked like the Beamer always moved a bit faster and was more responsive. I guess that could have been the pilot and/or different wind conditions. Have you (or anyone) flown both in the 3m size? If so, how do they compare? Speed, responsiveness, pull, etc.

I also heard some folks mention about the HQ lines being sticky. I've never flown HQ kites before so this worries me a little.

Since both of us reside in the midwest, do the winds tend to be gusty most of the year? I haven't really kept track of wind before now and so far that has been my observation. LOL.

I watched some videos of the Spiderkites Smithi and Smithi Pro. They look amazing but wouldn't know how to get one easily in the USA. I could definitely see myself owning one of them in the future. :)

indigo_wolf - 1-2-2016 at 06:01 AM

Ran into Posting software changes ? while trying to post to this thread.

Annoying as :mad: considering how long it took to get something intelligible posted. The first couple of times, it nuked half of the text and I finally resorted to editing the post in Notepad and repeatedly pasted/submitted it until it finally accepted some semblance of what I was trying to write.

Definitely a squirelly bug.

ATB,
Sam

Smithi / Smithi Pro

indigo_wolf - 1-2-2016 at 06:14 AM

Quote: Originally posted by crc301  

I watched some videos of the Spiderkites Smithi and Smithi Pro. They look amazing but wouldn't know how to get one easily in the USA. I could definitely see myself owning one of them in the future. :)


The Smithi and Smithi Pro are readily available through www.intothewind.com in CO.

It's important to keep in mind how small the Smithis are...



The Smithi is 7'5" x 2'5" with a wind range of 8-25 mph.

The Smith Pro is 2/3 the side at 6 feet 3 inches x 2 feet 2 inches with a wind range of 5 to 28 mph due to being made of a lighter sail material.

As always all stated wind ranges should be taken with a grain/boulder of salt.

Both Smithis employ a pulley system in the bridle system to improve steering response above and beyond what their quad handles would already provide them. For a fixed bridle kite at this price point, the inclusion of this is pretty unique.

ATB,
Sam

riffclown - 1-2-2016 at 02:50 PM

Quote: Originally posted by indigo_wolf  
Quote: Originally posted by crc301  

I watched some videos of the Spiderkites Smithi and Smithi Pro. They look amazing but wouldn't know how to get one easily in the USA. I could definitely see myself owning one of them in the future. :)


The Smithi and Smithi Pro are readily available through www.intothewind.com in CO.

It's important to keep in mind how small the Smithis are...



The Smithi is 7'5" x 2'5" with a wind range of 8-25 mph.

The Smith Pro is 2/3 the side at 6 feet 3 inches x 2 feet 2 inches with a wind range of 5 to 28 mph due to being made of a lighter sail material.

As always all stated wind ranges should be taken with a grain/boulder of salt.

Both Smithis employ a pulley system in the bridle system to improve steering response above and beyond what their quad handles would already provide them. For a fixed bridle kite at this price point, the inclusion of this is pretty unique.

ATB,
Sam



I flew a Smithi last year at the OBX Stunt Kite Festival.. The Smithi owner flew my Symphony Quad..
Short story.. Id rather have the converted Symphony.. The Smithi owner flew mine for a while and liked it as well. He asked for the instructions on converting a Symphony.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWP7exBR_NA

If interested just click on the 2.2.4 in my signature..
FWIW, my first buggy ride was with the converted Symphony as well.

Having flown all of these 2M kites, In my opinion, the 2M Hornet is slightly faster through the air than the 2M Beamer but it's extremely close.. The Beamer's brothers (Crossfire and Toxic) are faster through the air than the Hornet but not quite as maneuverable. Toxic is more of a balance between the Crossfire and the Beamer.. Crossfire is fastest but I wouldn't try to stunt with it..

The Skydog Powerfoil is also a very good puller and maneuverable kite. Recommend the 1.8 or 2.6 depending on how much "power" you want.. the 1.8 has good stunt capability if that's what you want to do with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TAVoOccsXo



a 4M Kite might be a bit more than you expect.
Here's Chris Shultz flying my 4M Crossfire back in 2014..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feJBAfaDekw



Between a 3M Hornet and a 3M Beamer, there isn't a bad choice..

hiaguy - 1-2-2016 at 03:57 PM

Rian has his Cores for sale:
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=31047
I love mine; they're easy and quick when flying static, but they really shine as great buggy engines - fast, stable, not a lot of lift, and fairly forgiving. (Actually, it would be a shame to use them for static only... buy them and plan on getting into a buggy :wee: )

IFlyKites - 1-2-2016 at 05:13 PM

I've flown the 3m Hornet so I can only tell you one side, however from what I have heard, both are excellent choices! I would take what others have said about HQ lines being more slick making looping difficult. I haven't found that to be the case with Peter Lynn lines. You could always try and find a kite only and get the lines/handles separately.

The Beamer will be handle lighter winds slightly better than the hornet, it's more agile, and somewhat easier to get up in the air. On the other hand, the hornet will handle those gusty winds better than the Beamer and may be a bit more beginner friendly.

Beamer: Higher AR, Faster in the air, handles lighter winds better, in gusts may surprise you.
Hornet: Lower AR, Slower in the air, (not as maneuverable), handles gusts better and will have gradual increase in pull.

Both of them have a wide wind range so you won't have a problem with that.

I notice when I fly the hornet, if a gust does come it just gradually builds up power and isn't sudden. Again, I can't speak for the Beamer but from what I have read, it will surprise you!



hiaguy - 1-2-2016 at 06:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by IFlyKites  
I've flown the 3m Hornet so I can only tell you one side, however from what I have heard, both are excellent choices! I would take what others have said about HQ lines being more slick making looping difficult. I haven't found that to be the case with Peter Lynn lines. You could always try and find a kite only and get the lines/handles separately.
The Beamer will be handle lighter winds slightly better than the hornet, it's more agile, and somewhat easier to get up in the air. On the other hand, the hornet will handle those gusty winds better than the Beamer and may be a bit more beginner friendly.
Beamer: Higher AR, Faster in the air, handles lighter winds better, in gusts may surprise you.
Hornet: Lower AR, Slower in the air, (not as maneuverable), handles gusts better and will have gradual increase in pull.
Both of them have a wide wind range so you won't have a problem with that.
I notice when I fly the hornet, if a gust does come it just gradually builds up power and isn't sudden. Again, I can't speak for the Beamer but from what I have read, it will surprise you!

It's not in my sig, but I have the 2m, 3m, and 4m Hornets too. Come to WBB and fly them side-by-side with the Cores. You'll be calling Rian for the 3m in no time.