Power Kite Forum

Pansh Blaze II 7m Depower

pi_r_squared - 15-2-2016 at 06:35 PM

After flying only FB kites, I picked up a Blaze II 7m depower. It's a simplified depower, only breaks the bridle into 3 sections (1 pulley).

I finally flew it the other day. Flew it in very light winds, 8-9 mph, and the depower was almost non existent (flown on an old Caution bar). It didn't "flag out" when flown almost completely on the power lines. Brake lines were showing plenty of droop, to the point they should have barely been part of the equation.

I guess "non-existent" isn't really fair. It DID turn much better than some similar size FB kites I've flown in very light winds, but essentially no difference in power from changing (or attempting to change) the AoA. More tension on the brake lines mostly resulted in HUGE braking, like dropping 40 degrees of flaps on an STOL tail-dragger.

I have a lot of info on tuning bridles on this kite, but I'm hesitant to mess with it before trying it in higher winds.

Anyone know how high the wind ought to be before I decide the bridle must have been rigged up on a Friday, and take matters into my own hands?

windrider1 - 15-2-2016 at 09:25 PM

Ive been telling folks pansh depower kites are junk. They dont have a real kiter that designs their kites. they mostly just try to make poor knockoffs . Ive been burned twice by pansh depower kites . Dont be fooled by the cheap prices and shiny fabric.

pi_r_squared - 15-2-2016 at 09:42 PM



From my understanding, there are plenty of people sharing your point of view, but there are also plenty of people flying them. Because of their rep I didn't expect it to fly right "out of the bag", but I know there are folks re-working the bridles, and was hoping to hear from one of them.

pi_r_squared - 15-2-2016 at 09:43 PM



From my understanding, there are plenty of people sharing your point of view, but there are also plenty of people flying them. Because of their rep I didn't expect it to fly right "out of the bag", but I know there are folks re-working the bridles, and was hoping to hear from one of them.

pi_r_squared - 15-2-2016 at 09:44 PM

rotten double post :mad: still not sure why it does that

windrider1 - 15-2-2016 at 09:51 PM

Goodluck reworking it.:D

Brant - 16-2-2016 at 10:59 PM

I'm no expert, but I would try it in something closer to 15mph? If it's down to 8 I tend to pull out the 14m. Mine fly like a damn, but I got it second hand from a guy in Ontario. Not too sure how much tuning was done to them, but they sure fly well. Also just to note you need to get them moving. I've heard it said depowers don't really "de-power" when you're sitting still, and I know for a fact these ones won't. But once you're moving they work awesome. One final disclaimer, I'm from Canada, so when we're talking mph it's a rough guess at best.

Brant - 16-2-2016 at 11:30 PM

One more question after I re-read the original post: What do you mean by it didn't flag out when flown on the front lines? Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but the kite should fly ok on just the power lines, the brakes just change the AOA to produce more power in the right conditions (ie while moving with enough wind) and help with turning. I'm sure somewhere on the forum I came across a really good description of how depowers work, but now I can't find it. I did however find this one, seems to cover what you're experiencing.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=28436#pid27...

Now hopefully the link works...

If this doesn't help I would try posting a new thread with a title like "first depower issues" as I kinda feel like some people see pansh in the title and write it off as a lost cause without reading the thread, although I could very well be wrong on that.

Also you should possibly think about the bar possibly being the issue as well before you start messing with the bridles? On that topic I have even less of a clue though. Pretty much just throwing ideas out there hoping one will help at this point.

Feyd - 17-2-2016 at 05:39 AM

Front Line Safety. (FLS) aka front line flagout is a system that when activated all the lines are disabled except for a single front flying (power) line.

Releasing back lines only will do nothing more than produce a kite with full power and no steering or braking input. A kite needs 2 lines under tension to produce power.

A depower kite can be depowered any time it is flying and generating pull.

Depower kites depower in various ways. The most common being change in angle of attack. The power is an interpretation of lift. More or less angle of attack= more or less lift. Which when crossing the wind translates into power.

Angle of attack can be adjusted both actively, by sheeting the bar in (pulling towards you) and sheeting the bar out (pushing the bar towards the kite) or mechanically set through the use of what is called a trim system. A combination of both mechanical setting and sheeting allows the pilot to set a kite to perform within a certain wind range.

2x Brants suggestion on considering the bar as the first thing to look at in terms of tuning. The bar throw and leaders are possibly the issue.


cheezycheese - 17-2-2016 at 06:54 AM

There is a forum member named "Blake". Search him out and send him a u2u. He is like Yoda when it comes to the Blaze. I bought a BLAZEII from him and it flies like a dream. I'm sure he can answer any of your tuning questions.

pi_r_squared - 17-2-2016 at 08:13 AM

ok, it looks like I grabbed a completely wrong term with "flagging out", but I assumed, with the brake lines completely slack, the AoA would be so low (or negative) that it wouldn't generate any lift?? Sounds like that assumption was invalid. I suppose that would be a function of the stops on the depower bridle?

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd  


......Releasing back lines only will do nothing more than produce a kite with full power and no steering or braking input. A kite needs 2 lines under tension to produce power......

.....More or less angle of attack= more or less lift. Which when crossing the wind translates into power.



The portions in the quote above seem contradictory, but maybe I'm reading it wrong?
If releasing the brake lines produces the minimum angle of attack (minimum power) then how can releasing the brake lines "produce a kite with full power"??

and yes, I've been searching for "Blake's Tunings". I saw them mentioned on another forum (mentioned? wrong word...."worshipped" is more like it). I found details on "Russian tunings" but the details on Blake's have been elusive so far. I'm ready to hitchhike to Dagobah and see if they're tucked away in Yoda's hut.

As far as bar throw, I'm certainly not a expert, but it did seem to handle pretty well for such light wind. It didn't turn like my 5m on handles, but seemed very tolerant of the low wind speed when making climbing turns.

Thanks for all the feedback, truly appreciated.....on a quest for "Blake's tunings" now.

pi_r_squared - 17-2-2016 at 08:47 AM

I should have mentioned.....I was thinking it could have been the bar throw, and was considering switching to a homebrew ozone turbo style bar I have (to get more throw).

Before doing that, I tried to "get the bar out of the equation". I tried to evaluate this with the kite pretty much overhead, harness hooked in, starting with very slack brake lines (4 - 5 ft of "droop"). Rather than relying on the bar, I grabbed the brake lines and very slowly removed the slack (no increase in lift), applied a little tension, still no increase in lift, gradually more tension, still no noticeable increase in lift, continued until the result was huge brakes (I suppose "stalled" is the right word, but with no noticeable change in lift prior to stalling, I hesitate to call it that). Still bearing in mind the wind was pretty light, 8-9 mph.

Feyd - 17-2-2016 at 10:11 AM

Yes I agree it sounds contradictory. :D A by product of my attempt to over simplify things.

In reality the brake/steering line inputs will have different effects at different air/wind speeds. For example if there is not enough wind at launch and you sheet in, the kite will stall. However if there is a lot of wind (this by the way during a hot launch) and you sheet in at launch there is a high risk of receiving a beating.

It is not unusual to cheat the front lines by grabbing them and pulling them in independent of the bar and outside lines. Especially in light winds. This puts added load or full load solely on the front lines. Trimming in light winds will have the same effect although with less ability to fine tune on the fly. Again, a seemingly contradictory statement as the trim system is used and designed to set the kite at a certain depower setting yet it is often used to get more power out of a kite under certain conditions. ;)

bigkid - 17-2-2016 at 10:15 AM

Was a guy on the forum a while back that would rework the bridle of the blaze and end up with a great depower kite. I have the measurements for converting the 12m but nothing smaller.
The guys is Blake up in Canada. Not sure he is still into kites or not. Blake spent a lot of time on the bridle rework. If anyone knows the way to do it right it would be him.

My 2 cent bridle reply

rdcrawford - 17-2-2016 at 10:06 PM

I'd say you had the right idea checking for depower with brakes "off" but you can only depower any kite down to the available lift of the profile + AoA. The profile is what it is and quite a few "Cheaper" , nothing against Pansh, I've flow them and they're fine, buit a cheaper foil will tend to have a deeper profile which also gives more lift (generally) and if you want to get a quick well behaved foil out of the box you build it to have a slightly increased AoA.

OK, enough rambling. In the end if you want to try to lower your stock lift, brakes off, you move the primary bridle point more towards the nose through the center of the wing and gradually taper it back towards the tips. Too far forward and you start to get the dreaded "nose over" at the edge of the window. The bridle game will take you quite a way.

In a 10 mph wind do you know your approximate overhead angle of the kite with no brakes (full depower). That will actually give you some idea as to how much improvement you can expect from bridle tuning.

Hope that helps, just in case you don't track down Blake.

Brant - 17-2-2016 at 10:28 PM

Just so happens Blake is who mine all come from, he was heading south when I bought these ones. If you need info on how he had my 7m tuned I could take some pictures or get some measurements, I just have no idea currently as to what parts I would be measuring? Also I don't know if everything is still the same in the bridles on the current Blaze 2s, mine is an old enough model that it still has the white underside.

bigkid - 18-2-2016 at 06:11 AM

Brant, the area that Blake reworked was the point were the bridles came together at the last connection befor they connected to the line set. Picture and measurement would be the ticket.
I vaguely remember that Blake was changing jobs, the reason why he left town. Or either the Law was chasing him, ha ha.