Power Kite Forum - High wind flying.

High wind flying.

bigkid - 14-3-2016 at 06:44 AM

I got out yesterday to do a bit of small kite buggy riding. Winds were looking good so I went to my favorite park, Marymoor Park in Redmond, WA.
The park is over 60 acres with great wind access for any wind giving a 360 degree possibility of play.
The coast was being beat to death with a fast moving pressure system that changed wind direction 180 degrees in a couple hours. So the park was the best place to play.

The wind was blowing 5 to 35 with gust to 60 plus. Not ideal conditions for much of anything.....
After an hour of fighting I decided to deal with the wind in a different way. I was flying a 1m on 140 foot lines, seemed to be the best idea of the afternoon. While having to put the kite into a death spiral in one direction untill the lines began to bind up and then switch to the other direction and back to make the kite pull me in the buggy during the low wind moments it was 1m too much during the approach of the 60 mile an hour gusts. Sorry to share that the AQR did its job as to let everyone know that out of 14 possible OBE's there were no OBE's to tell about. I did get tired of chasing down the kite after each release .

Here is the part that prompted me to write this post. The difference in wind speed yesterday was 60 mph plus. Some reports say we had 79mph gusts. There were times when the wind was absolutely calm and within 2 seconds the gust would rip the kite out of your life for quite the shock value.
Now the fact that the wind is blowing like crazy isn't a problem, it's the 30-40mph increase and decrease that comes and goes within a couple heart beats. I've never been one to walk away from a challenge but this was nothing close to a challenge. This was close to deathly stupid. Without my AQR I wouldn't have even thought of trying let alone holding my coat open to act as a sail.
Hot launching a kite from in the buggy is one of those skills that you never do perfect. No matter how many times you try it, I have stood on the front pegs too many times to know better. We pride ourselves here on the West Coast to having clean winds that the rest of the United States doesn't have the luxury of knowing. But once the winds get up above 20 miles an hour the clean winds statement goes out with the garbage. Park and ride is something we doing here quite often, but to go from sitting still and being dragged sideways within a second or two and traveling hundreds of feet between stops isn't my idea of a good time.
The lessons learned were priceless to say the least. Not sure superman would have had much more fun with his lightning quick responce and super human strength to hold on and control the kite. All in all it was a good day to get out and play while others were just holding on for dear life.

ssayre - 14-3-2016 at 07:31 AM

Good read Jeff. One question I have in the aqr is when it releases, does it release the pulley with the kite? That's the way I understand it, maybe incorrectly not sure. I always envision the kite getting behind me, lifting me, then getting smacked in the face when the pulley releases. I'm guessing that I'm wrong but is that a possibility? Also, I'm not at all skeptical of the aqr but have always been curious if that's a possibility. I most likely don't fully understand its operation in use.

PHREERIDER - 14-3-2016 at 07:51 AM

definitely got breeze! wild stuff man. glad the AQR doing its job!

AudereEng - 14-3-2016 at 10:26 AM

Bigkid your pressure differences would have been insane since they roughly depend on the wind speed squared.

In Newport Or we did get pounded yesterday and last week before that.
Late last week the previous storm removed about 4 vertical feet of sand off Ona Beach for example so a good low tide did not yield much beach to play with - I made the N side of the river kind of work but it was a very ugly - wet and salty ride.

The waves were easily hitting 25' yesterday so yet more sand has probably been scraped away now.
Worth consider this if you are driving a long ways to the beach.

bigkid - 14-3-2016 at 12:29 PM

ssayre,
yes the pulley stays with the strop. Imagine all you want, untill you actually do it it's only speculation.
Of all the testing and years of realtime use, I have never been hit by the pulley. Broke my pinky finger when the handles were ripped out of my hands when I broke the power lines while being way over powered. Never hurt in any way by the activation of the AQR.

AudereEng,
going to the beach this next week, hope to see a bit of sand. I am donating the Apex buggy, a Blokart, and a bunch of new gear along with one of my AQR setup to the World Kite Museum in Long Beach Wa, then it's off to play on what ever beach is left.
The Museum is setting up a display with some old Peter Lynn stuff to show the progression of powered kite sport over the years. I get the honor to help supply some of the new Technology and show the transition from old to new.

ssayre - 14-3-2016 at 12:47 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

ssayre,
yes the pulley stays with the strop. Imagine all you want, untill you actually do it it's only speculation.
Of all the testing and years of realtime use, I have never been hit by the pulley. Broke my pinky finger when the handles were ripped out of my hands when I broke the power lines while being way over powered. Never hurt in any way by the activation of the AQR.

ssayre - 14-3-2016 at 12:48 PM

thanks and fair enough. for what it's worth, if/when i get some fixed bridles, I wouldn't use a strop with them without your aqr. I would prefer any number of minor injuries to a lofting.

quote didn't work right for some reason

Bladerunner - 14-3-2016 at 01:06 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

. I am donating the Apex buggy, a Blokart, and a bunch of new gear along with one of my AQR setup to the World Kite Museum in Long Beach Wa, then it's off to play on what ever beach is left.
The Museum is setting up a display with some old Peter Lynn stuff to show the progression of powered kite sport over the years. I get the honor to help supply some of the new Technology and show the transition from old to new.

Please tell us more about this kite museum. Do they have a web site?

When the day comes to pass on my gear I think I would like to donate some of my " classics " to a museum. The signed Peel, Comp Kitesurfer, a C-quad, F-arc, T-arc and my buggy all come to mind.

RedSky - 14-3-2016 at 01:17 PM

...... :no:

0 - 20 - 0

.......:o
0 - 40 - 0

.......:evil:
0 - 60 - 0

That's a huge variation in wind speed, enough to rip your arm off at the elbow with depower. Testament to your AQR system. Have no doubt though, this kinda wind frequently kills in the kitesurfing community.

I fall into the 16 - 45 - 0 category, nevertheless when they hit you know all about it. The achievement of having survived is the best bit. You can't help but crack a smile on the drive home.

AudereEng - 14-3-2016 at 02:54 PM

Bigkid today I was next to N jetty wall at Newport.
Was on a 2m but the fun was cut short - completely got drowned out by hail

The sand was fine.
The recent storms winds have been from the S-SW so maybe the jetty wall stopped the sand removal?

bigkid - 14-3-2016 at 04:11 PM

Bladerunner,
http://www.worldkitemuseum.com/

RedSky,
Depower kites (some better than others) are more inline with gusty winds than any fixed bridle. I will still take my ball and go home when the winds get over anxious and starts pushing the hurricane idea.

eric67m - 14-3-2016 at 04:20 PM

I was briefly out at marymore yesterday afternoon by what i believe is the cricket field, west of the velodrome. I briefly thought about putting my 2.5 hq alpha out. Then i thought again. Those winds were super gusty and sketchy. I headed back to the car just as it started to rain.

It is funny how you can go from thinking about no wind and how do indoor kites work to holy crap maybe i need a smaller power foil for when it is windy like this.

PistolPete - 14-3-2016 at 04:29 PM

79 mph at the coast, 83mph in the mountains and everywhere in between was too gusty for me :no:

http://cliffmass.blogspot.com/

bigkid - 14-3-2016 at 05:13 PM

Quote: Originally posted by eric67m

I was briefly out at marymore yesterday afternoon by what i believe is the cricket field, west of the velodrome. I briefly thought about putting my 2.5 hq alpha out. Then i thought again. Those winds were super gusty and sketchy. I headed back to the car just as it started to rain.

It is funny how you can go from thinking about no wind and how do indoor kites work to holy crap maybe i need a smaller power foil for when it is windy like this.

I was just south of the rock, west of the baseball field. My small high wind kites are water proof, the buggy seat is not.

dangerdan - 14-3-2016 at 05:32 PM

Is this the same AQR ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpdMYO1mQO0

eric67m - 14-3-2016 at 06:20 PM

I noticed in that video you show that it is hooked to kite killers. On Popeye the welders site it shows your aqr but has no reference to kite killers. This makes a little more sense, until you run over the kite lines. Which one is most like your current set up?

bigkid - 14-3-2016 at 07:34 PM

Yep, same setup. But without the kite killers. I found the kite doesn't go far when the AQR is deployed. I tend to fly overpowered and the kite killers have actually done more damage to the kite once they are used.

The old cricket field with #5 and #6 also. They are basically the parking lot, so I don't have to fight with the soccer moms.

3shot - 15-3-2016 at 06:21 AM

Nice read Jeff. That's some crazy wind! Im so greatful for your AQR design. Nothing worse than being lifted without asking the kite to do so. Really looking forward to your potential depower AQR design!

Demoknight - 15-3-2016 at 07:51 AM

Quote: Originally posted by 3shot

Nice read Jeff. That's some crazy wind! Im so greatful for your AQR design. Nothing worse than being lifted without asking the kite to do so. Really looking forward to your potential depower AQR design!

I definitely believe that any time a kite lifts you, it most certainly IS because you asked it to, even if you didn't know you were asking it to. Kites only do what you tell them with regards to what the wind is also telling them :P

3shot - 15-3-2016 at 08:01 AM

True Errol lol. I'm more so speaking of gusts. Pilot error is just that.

soliver - 15-3-2016 at 08:21 AM

Pilot error hurts, physically and financially ... trust me.

3shot - 15-3-2016 at 08:29 AM

Trying not to morph this thread into another AQR one. I have had two experiences with my AQR. First was a jibe two years ago when it was true pilot error with my 5m ozone. I let the kite get too high, and too far behind me. Second was at my local soccer field. I was flying along in steady wind with no change in kite direction or change in kite input. The gust simply snatched my @$$. AQR worked both times.
I already have a bad back in a dangerous sport, so I like avoiding (unintentional) lift at all costs personally.

Feyd - 15-3-2016 at 09:52 AM

[/rquote]

I definitely believe that any time a kite lifts you, it most certainly IS because you asked it to, even if you didn't know you were asking it to. Kites only do what you tell them with regards to what the wind is also telling them :P[/rquote]

:thumbup:

Bulls eye.

dangerdan - 15-3-2016 at 10:03 AM

Is this AQR available from a web site or can it be made ?

If its made, is there a video on what parts to get.

I did a search here for AQR and only found the Youtube link.

bigkid - 15-3-2016 at 10:13 AM

I definitely believe that any time a kite lifts you, it most certainly IS because you asked it to, even if you didn't know you were asking it to.
I agree, it's the reason we fly kites, or drive cars or eat burgers. It's the unforeseen that doesn't play fair. Granted we can for see certain things but not 100%. Any more than understanding that driving a car will at some point be involved in an accident. The question is how bad was the accident be? Will you be killed in it or will you just have a simple fender bender? I know what it's like to have an OBE and not be able to walk away from it, I also know what it's like to be able to just stand up out of the seat and walk away from it. Because I can, I prefer to dictate my future. And because I can dictate my future, I am able to do more things, to a greater degree, without paying the price, because I already have.

As for varying opinions and thoughts on the subject, I still stand by my post.
So making a general statement that it's all pilot error is fine for those who believe that. On the same side of the track I can say its because you're not smart enough, or you're too smart for your own good.
This post is about the Extreme variants of the wind itself to go from not enough wind for a 1 m kite, to way too much wind for a 1 m kite within a split second. I just removed the pilot error issue that would have created a problem.

bigkid - 15-3-2016 at 10:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by dangerdan

Is this AQR available from a web site or can it be made ?

If its made, is there a video on what parts to get.

I did a search here for AQR and only found the Youtube link.

Email me and I can sell you the setup or point you in the direction of your own parts purchase.

bigkid - 15-3-2016 at 10:41 AM

quote,
I already have a bad back in a dangerous sport, so I like avoiding unintentional lift at all costs personally.

After 5 1/2 years, I found out last week that I have "a nasty mess" in my neck. I was rear ended in September and have been fighting a headache sense then. After all the PT, pain meds, and shots, I received the original exrays and CT scan from my accident Almost 6 years ago. At that time the er doctors were concerned with my broken ribs and collapsed lung. They failed to see all the disc and vertebrae damage in my neck. So after all the Thoracis healing is done, I now get to deal with my neck issue that wasn't an issue prior to the rearend automobile accident. With that being said everything, everyone, is a pain in my neck. So whether it is a pre-existing condition that causes me to not want another OBE, or the fact that it just plain hurts, doesn't change the fact that life sucks. So I can either enjoy what I have and what I'm capable of or I can run and hide in a bubble and never ever come out.
My ex always said " if you're not going Mach 10 with your hair on fire, you're not happy". It's true, push the envelope till you know we're it ends. That's when you know what's possible and what's yet to be possible. It's not the years in your life, it's the life in your years. At 60 years of age, I can say without a doubt I did more in the first 20 years of my life the most others will ever do in their entire life. :moon:

3shot - 15-3-2016 at 12:01 PM

Well my wife likes the additional piece of mind from your AQR brainchild Jeff. That is when I have it on... :embarrased:

Pushing the limits, or learning something new is what drives the sport in my humble opinion. New gear, new terrain, new conditions, etc.

Lift is proportional to wind speed so I've learned. I guess what I'm trying to say is when you are just trucking along with the kite locked at a position in the window, and bam! Break loose, over, or up you go. With my Ozone and Nasa OBEs I knew exactly what I did wrong. I sent the kite wrong. But cruising along with park and ride and getting snatched out by a gust left me wondering what the heck just happened..

Quote: Originally posted by Demoknight

[ with regards to what the wind is also telling them :P

That's what I was trying to say by unintentional lift.

ssayre - 15-3-2016 at 12:14 PM

I disagree that a kite only lifts when asked. Depower kites might fit that statement better but fixed bridle is a different story. My old 6.6 blade would pluck me right out of the buggy on a hard gust with it at approx a 45 degree angle. Not at zenith and not when sending it. Same with my twister. The only thing that saved me was not being hooked in and having the ability to just let go just after being thrown. Fixed bridle will give little to no warning on a strong gust. Depower is completely different. You get that critical couple of seconds reaction time by letting bar out and being able to reach safety. Even depower have their limits and everyone who flies a kite will have it at or near zenith at some point in a session leaving open the possibility of a random gust taking you. With all that said, I still think kiting is generally very safe depending on your approach.

My overall philosophy is you do what you can but ultimately when it's your turn for bad crap to happen or die than its your turn and there's nothing your going to do about it. And you won't be able to guess what's going to get you.

bigkid - 15-3-2016 at 01:53 PM

The ability to let go right after I've been thrown.
I mean no disrespect when I have to comment on the above statement, and laugh and till my side hurts. I can't help but think of two people, Who were unable to pull the safety or unhook before the damage was done. One person shattered his hip and was drug quite a ways before he fell on his hand which was next to his quick release and he was able to pull it because of his arm being polled sideways as he tumbled. The second person was still trying to unhook when he hit the ground with his elbow between him and his three broken ribs.
I know people who have been hurt extremely bad, and I have personally seen it happen to others. At the end of the day it still comes down to personal preference, and pride.
I am old enough now that I don't care what other people think. If somebody wants to pull out in front of me in traffic, I'm so old, and slow reacting, and I can't see very well anymore, I just hit them. Been in 3 wrecks which the other persons were at fault, it totaled all three of their cars, and did no damage to my truck.
Fixed bridal kites and the power kites are kites only to the degree that grapes and bananas are fruit. You can peel them both and eat them or you can eat them as they are.
I get in trouble every time I go out to play because I don't were a helmet. Unless there are other buggiers around, you never know when one of them will run into you. Not the fact that I will be yarded out of my buggy and land on my head because that won't happen.
But I might be run into by somebody else.

Your also right about cruising down the beach with a kite parked to the side and BAM the kites gone. Guess there was a gust that DIDNT surprise the AQR.

bigkid - 15-3-2016 at 02:07 PM

go ahead, pull out infront of me...

ssayre - 15-3-2016 at 02:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

Your also right about cruising down the beach with a kite parked to the side and BAM the kites gone. Guess there was a gust that DIDNT surprise the AQR.

yep, traditional fixed bridle foils are a completely different animal. I don't think twice about hot wiring my kites or flying my depowers without an auto release but I will not ever consider using fixed bridles, hooked in, without an auto release anywhere. I feel very lucky that I escaped my fixed bridle hooked in phase without injury. Scared the sh?t out of me several times. I always say this, but I regard fixed bridle, hooked in flying as the highest risk kiting there is. (without aqr)

On the flip side, I regard fixed bridle unhooked flying the safest. If I had a good hard surface, like a beach, I'd probably spend most of my time unhooked and flying fb. as it is, I get way more enjoyment and fun out of depower/nasa for my location.

ssayre - 15-3-2016 at 02:28 PM

while we're on the safety subject, first thing we tell new people to do is get a 3 meter. 2nd thing we tell them is get a harness and use a strop to get used to being hooked in. Stupid. 2nd step should be depower imo :P

pongnut - 15-3-2016 at 03:09 PM

Quote: Originally posted by bigkid

If somebody wants to pull out in front of me in traffic, I'm so old, and slow reacting, and I can't see very well anymore, I just hit them. Been in 3 wrecks which the other persons were at fault, it totaled all three of their cars, and did no damage to my truck.

Feyd - 15-3-2016 at 03:17 PM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

while we're on the safety subject, first thing we tell new people to do is get a 3 meter. 2nd thing we tell them is get a harness and use a strop to get used to being hooked in. Stupid. 2nd step should be depower imo :P

I totally agree.

To take it a step further. With the availability of 2.5-3m trainer oriented depows you can save the expense of purchasing a high wind depower later while avoiding the confusion and frustration many people experience when going from a fixed bridle trainer to a depower.

abkayak - 15-3-2016 at 05:37 PM

I live at the shore...hooked in 3m days are the best days
Nothing comes close to that kind of fun w/ a kite and a bug
Dp is for standing up...imo

ssayre - 15-3-2016 at 05:45 PM

abkayak, what about those phantom's? Have you used them yet. Don't even think I forgot you have those

ssayre - 15-3-2016 at 05:47 PM

you've got a blade, phantom 1's, c quads, beach spot. pretty much my idle.

abkayak - 15-3-2016 at 05:52 PM

Lot of houses for sale around here you know
Lot of roofs too:D

ssayre - 16-3-2016 at 06:50 AM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

Lot of houses for sale around here you know
Lot of roofs too:D

That would be great. Hopefully at some point that will be an option. Family will need us around for awhile yet, but I wouldn't mind moving to the coast at all some day.