Power Kite Forum

A blast

Prussik - 3-4-2016 at 08:32 AM

Yesterday, for the first time this season I had to let go of the kite. After a few nice, powered up passes at Spray on 4.0 suddenly it hit. I landed the kite but holding on to it and keeping it down on brakes was out of question. Letting go flagged out the kite on safety leash, then ice screw, walk to the kite, strap around the bundle, winding the lines and walk back for something much smaller. 1.5 was a little too much too but reduced to 1.2 was manageable for a good rest of the session.

The episode does not deserve publicity, and the only reason for bringing up is for those considering kite-killers. I hate to think about being attached to kite-killers in this situation. They are outright dangerous and should never be used. There is a safe way to handle dramatically overpowered situations.

abkayak - 3-4-2016 at 09:12 AM

That deserves publicity..i had a beat down yesterday..started out clear skies w/ 3.5
It wasn't enough so took 4.9...the beach foged over so didn't see the squall line coming across the ocean, winds went 25+ and I did 50ft thru the air then dragged150ft while it death spiraled..got it together, got back to the exit couldn't bring the kite down and had to let go...kite landed against a house no damage..kk would have made both situations much more dangerous...used to love them static but not a fan anymore

canuck - 3-4-2016 at 09:36 AM

Wow, glad you were able to get control of the situation. Spray is so isolated, you do not want to get hurt or have kites disappear after release. How/where do you attach your leash to flag out the kite with handles on a strop?

NightHawkIL - 3-4-2016 at 10:05 AM

I'm new so please forgive my ignorance, but could someone explain the practical difference between killing a kite with a safety leash and doing so with kite killers? Does the leash kill it that much faster or reliably?

Also, wouldn't kite killers be much safer if they just used something that would tear away with ~50lbs of force rather than like 3" of velcro locked around your wrist? A button snap in the middle of the bungee maybe? Seems like that would give you the best of both worlds in allowing you to kill the kite without letting it blow away, but still having a failure point to release you if it doesn't kill it quite fast enough.

jrhook - 3-4-2016 at 10:32 AM

And what say you on the practicality of 1 kite killer vs 2. Seems it would have set the kite out parallel and less dangerous than keeping both arms attached as anchors contributing to the chaos. Would also allow for a free hand to attempt a full abort...

NightHawkIL - 3-4-2016 at 10:40 AM

I'm asking a genuine question not voicing an opinion. I've only just flown for the first time a few days ago, I have no idea what is best.

skimtwashington - 3-4-2016 at 10:44 AM

That sounds like a bad one, Brandon. Glad you're OK.



There is no flagging with a strop on FB handles. A strop takes weight off arms but puts you in both a mostly trapped danger(no release if you can't 'Pull back and get slacS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-, and move off harness hook or roller) AND a situation that you may lose your kite if you get out or choose to let it go.

The simplest but not guaranteed release addition for stopped FB flying would be a panic snap that would connect strop to harness center. Cheap $4-10. But far from foolproof-not in mechanical- but operator logistics.

You still will lose the kite but you got a way to rid a fully powered kite off your harness hook. Timing is critical and sometimes instant with little time to react before drag or launch. But at least if you can reach and 'pop it' you have some chance...or can stop an endless drag.

If you are wearing two kite killers you ARE-in effect- a secondary strop to keep kite from flagging.

The idea of kite killers on both hands is to release and activate both brakes enough mostly kill the kites powrer and ground it. If the kite still has too much power...or wild(gusting non stop), the kite killer activating brakes may not be enough to remove forces on kite......

One might do a kite killer on just one wrist....Still same issues w/strop not allowing flagging.

One kite killer and no strop would be different.There is very good chance of it flagging. But you are still tied to kite by wrist w/a kite killer if it doesn't ! Tear that Velcro strap off, quick.

Leashes are generally used w/the depowers and that's a whole different set up w/safety release, bar set up....best a depower veteran say more if needed. I'm strict FB.

NightHawkIL - 3-4-2016 at 10:52 AM

Thanks skim, that makes sense. Just so I'm clear on what you're saying as I'm still trying to figure out all the lingo by it's context, a strop is the tether you'd use between your two handles to attach a 4 string to your harness?

abkayak - 3-4-2016 at 11:12 AM

That's correct on the strop
Walking out just sore in tact should qualify as a good one...blowing to 50 today I'm sitting out

IFlyKites - 3-4-2016 at 11:17 AM

Leashes are only used on depowers. If you have a depower that has 5 lines, (e.g. Flysurfer) the fifth line is connected to a metal ring which the leash attaches to. With non 5th line kites, the safety is similar but is attached to the two or one center lines.

There are pros/cons to a fifth line safety. For one, you can completely kill the power with it but on the other hand when activated you will watch the 5th line wrap around the kite until it becomes a tangled mess :P

The strop line attaches to the handles and then is hooked onto the harness. It essentially allows you to get rid of the pull off your arms, (similar to depower). Most use strops when buggying/landboarding.

ssayre - 3-4-2016 at 11:23 AM

Sounds like Prussik was using his 5 line ns2 set up on handles. That's altogether different than the normal strop configuration.

Dang Brandon, that sounded like one heck of a ride.

ssayre - 3-4-2016 at 11:28 AM

Canuck I'm disappointed you didn't know about his custom 5 line set up. I figured you might have even seen it in action.

abkayak - 3-4-2016 at 11:59 AM

Yea that one will be time stamped on the brain
So those NASSAs can get leashed?...w/ handles?

ssayre - 3-4-2016 at 12:16 PM

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak  
Yea that one will be time stamped on the brain
So those NASSAs can get leashed?...w/ handles?


If I understand prussik correctly. Yes.

The 5th line is connected to the nose "depower" bridle on the ns2 and the other end connected on his person or harness. The 4 line handle and strop configuration is more or less normal and must have a qr. When deployed, it collapses the nose but remains leashed via the fifth line.

I've never seen it, but this is what I gathered from his explanation sometime ago so I might not be completely accurate.

Prussik - 3-4-2016 at 04:39 PM


Quote:

Leashes are only used on depowers.

Nonsense.

Good thinking Ssayre, but incorrect. In this episode I was not using any of my 5 line NS (in which case the 5-th would obviously be used) but a conventional 4-line FB equipped with safety leash like all of my FB's, which allow for flagging out - with a strop, of course. Some years ago I posted a description. Rather than repeating myself I may search it when I have time. And, of course, any 4-line NS can have a leash too.

ssayre - 3-4-2016 at 04:53 PM

I should have known better. Much to learn I still have.

Windstruck - 3-4-2016 at 05:42 PM

This is a good discussion. Things can go so well might up until the moment when they can go so badly. Glad you guys walked away from these situations in one piece more or less.

On the topic of flagging out with DP kites, a number of Ozone's latest DPs (at least Access, Frenzy, and Summit) now come equipped with th 5th line going INTO the kite in something they call the Re-Ride system. I've got 3 of these beauties and want two more. They work exactly as advertised. When deployed (in a slow controlled way by just pulling in the 5th line by hand through the chicken loop) or in an emergency situation when popping the chicken loop the kite will collapse much like an accordion folding up since the 5th line is internally attached to a bridle system specifically designed to scrunch up the kite into a ball.

When deployed a Re-Ride kite crumples up to a ball and sits on the ground even in very strong wind. No tug left in it at all. When you have things back under control you just start shaking the kite with your bar and the line will play out, the kite will un-accordion itself and away you go. No rats nest to deal with. This is not usually the case when I've pulled the loop on my Peaks.

IFlyKites - 3-4-2016 at 06:07 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Prussik  

Quote:

Leashes are only used on depowers.

Nonsense.

Good thinking Ssayre, but incorrect. In this episode I was not using any of my 5 line NS (in which case the 5-th would obviously be used) but a conventional 4-line FB equipped with safety leash like all of my FB's, which allow for flagging out - with a strop, of course. Some years ago I posted a description. Rather than repeating myself I may search it when I have time. And, of course, any 4-line NS can have a leash too.


Guess I should have said, "mostly". I fly 4 line FB's with kite-killers. Interested to see your description about that!

canuck - 4-4-2016 at 05:05 PM

@ssayre - I can never get close enough to check out PrussiS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s set up (he is fast and on the move) so I have not seen the 5th line setup on his NS but I thought that his 4m was an open cell foil on handles with a strop so that is the basis for my question.

Ah hah, found your post about Trusting Kite Killers. Good advice!
http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=20629#pid19...
Quote:

In shifty, gusty and grossly overpowering conditions anything that holds the kite perpendicular to the direction of wind is inappropriate as a safety device. In conditions severe enough, with KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s, the kite will turn over and reverse launch. Furthermore if the wind suddenly increases 4 times or more, holding on to 2 brake lines has no chance at all and therefore KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s can only be effective in relatively mild situations and are useless in TRUE emergencies. However what works in any conditions is quite simple. About 2 - 2.5 m of "shoelace" cord attached to ONE brake line about 1-1.5 m from the handle, the other end attached to the harness. Optimal lengths depend on kite size and are easy to figure out. They should be such that the safety line will not interfere with steering, yet letting go of the handles positions the kite lengthwise to the wind with no pull and no chance of flying.


I will have to take a closer look at how you stop the leash from sliding on the brake line if our kites are ever parked next time we are out together.

I have used my HQ leash attached to one brake line since it is elastic and will absorb the shock load imposed when releasing my strop under load but it is not long enough to flag out most of my FBs. Most of the time the kite gets tangled in the bridle with open cell foils but closed cell foils just like to relaunch. That is why I think it is a good idea to practice killing the kite under all sorts of different conditions.


Prussik - 5-4-2016 at 07:45 AM

Thanks Canuck for digging this up. I thought I was more specific about the lengths vs sizes but that must have been a different forum or different posting. It is easy to figure this out keeping in mind the key - the attachment point of the leash has to be far enough from the handle. I have leaders long enough on all 4 lines to attach the leash at the leader/line joint in most cases. Otherwise there are several ways to do it, some less fiddly than the other like e.g. tying the leash to a clove hitch on the line, etc. As always, when making a knot on one line remember to measure the distance between 2 marks on the line before and after making the knot so that you will know how much loss to compensate for on the other side and adjust both if needed.

br44 - 5-4-2016 at 03:57 PM

That is a good quote. I need to adapt it just a bit for my personal taste....

In shifty, gusty and grossly overpowering conditions ... [flying kites] ... is inappropriate.