Power Kite Forum

How to fly kites off-bridle

Fflexikite - 28-4-2016 at 01:14 PM

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Windstruck - 28-4-2016 at 02:25 PM

I've played with it a bit with limited success. My experience has primarily been with Born-Kite NASA Star-3s flown as two line kites off of a bar with a street-bar pigtail setup but really I've not been very pleased with the results. The shorter the lines (down to no lines) makes the wind window smaller and smaller. Flying these NPWs straight off of the bridles, and at least in my hands, makes the kites really prone to back flying. I've heard things go better with really clean steady wind such as on-shore beach winds but that is nothing like the wind I tend to get in the Utah mountains so maybe I'm a poor judge of this sort of thing.

I believe Ssayre has some expense with NS2s and various types of "skateboards".

bigkid - 28-4-2016 at 03:16 PM

You have to be in real clean wind that is at ground level. Such as at a beach or waterfront type of area where there are no trees, buildings or other obstructions. The reason lines are used is to get up above the dirty wind into the clean wind and or to create clean apparent wind.
Don't expect great success while flying on just the bridals, unless you are moving which is how the kites were designed to fly in the first place.
You are basically doing a downwinder.

Fflexikite - 29-4-2016 at 12:49 AM

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bigkid - 29-4-2016 at 06:14 AM

Tinkering for the purpose of tinkering is just that, tinkering.
Tinkering for the purpose of curing a problem, finding a solution to a problem, is the mother of invention's. Keep up the good work.
I'm sure you already know this, that with any idea there has to be a point in time where the physical aspects need to become a reality. As with my AQR, my thoughts and drawings only went so far before I had to put someone in the buggy seat and yank them out to see if my paper drawings, and idea, really worked.
Sounds like you've got it figured out, and you're at the point of physical testing. If the "off the shelf" items don't pan out, you might have to create a new solution and product.
In the event of wanting or needing help or assistance, I would be happy to lend an ear or hand. Been there, done that. Success is a reward that only you really appreciate. :thumbup:

Fflexikite - 29-4-2016 at 08:58 AM

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Windstruck - 29-4-2016 at 09:26 AM

So this is most interesting! I wish you the very greatest of success in these ventures. I too offer assistance, though along a different line than bigkid who is far more able to help you along the lines of what is being discussed. My unique position here is that of a kite enthusiast AND a doctor of muscle physiology and biomechanics that works in the rare disease drug development space. I'd be please to try and noodle on this problem with you.

Fflexikite - 29-4-2016 at 10:06 AM

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Windstruck - 29-4-2016 at 10:21 AM

Cool. I'd seen that video before. Nick Jacobsen is one of the world's better kitesurfers. Let's just say, "Your results may vary". Mine too, not throwing you under the bus here. :D

Interesting to use a 1m NPW. I'd have to see the rigging and the application to really noodle on this. JRA is a tough row to hoe; I wish you the best of success with that. More and more good drugs are coming out all the time. We (Regeneron) have an anti-IL6 receptor antibody under review at FDA (decision rendered this October) so hopefully we have something for RA soon.

Fflexikite - 29-4-2016 at 10:28 AM

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Randy - 29-4-2016 at 12:21 PM

Just so I understand are you trying to go upwind (against the wind) or downwind (with the wind)? From you earlier post it sounder like you were looking to go downwind, while the pictures above the the sprinters going upwind. The reason I ask is that going downwind is a much bigger challenge in that the apparent wind from walking would be lower by the amount of your walking speed, while going upwind benefits from walking into the wind. (Either way would work, given enough wind but it takes a lot more, of course, going downwind.) The sprinters may be running fast enough that they don't need any wind. The orientation of the kite relative to your body would be opposite - ahead of you for downwind and behind you for upwind.

Also - are you trying to provide forward propulsion, or to take some of the weight off of your joints?

Fflexikite - 29-4-2016 at 01:02 PM

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Windstruck - 29-4-2016 at 01:28 PM

This is sort of a tough one. To get lift to any significant degree you will likely need to get a "lifty" kite. I would suspect that to get enough lift to make a difference in terms of offloading joints that you would want to be harnessed in, otherwise you are going to wear your arms out pretty quickly (sort of like doing a bunch of short lat pull downs). Your arms will just blow up if you want to cover some distance I'd think. I am totally unfamiliar with flying "lifty"'kites on short lines harnessed in. Not familiar but my Spidey Sense is screaming "danger!"

While I haven't done any kite assisted sprinting I have done a fair amount of sprint training over the years, including parachute resistance training. In my experience I've found that the parachutes work 90% on apparent wind. They do fill easier and hold you back harder if you run into the wind but they work just fine indoors too when of course you are getting 100% apparent wind. I suspect the kites used for sprinting work with mostly apparent wind, and that their performance would really change if you tried to use them at a walking pace with a headwind. Hard to say too much without seeing the kites, their bridling, etc.

Good luck with this!

Fflexikite - 29-4-2016 at 02:20 PM

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Bladerunner - 30-4-2016 at 11:36 AM

Forgive me if I am off base on this one.

Jeff's point about wind being messy at ground level is significant. To me you will run into a catch 22. Any kite you find that will give you significant lift will turn on you and create pull before you can react? Any gain on assisted walking seems to me to be cancelled by potential to drag you down wind. Even steady winds can be fickle!

When your kite gets to zenith it spills most of it's power. The way that guy is able to play with gravity is by holding down so much power that he only needed to work the edge of the window and hold back against the wall to convert it to lift. Be SURE he has taken his licks getting to that stage. He could NOT have done it without a big kite and long lines. Flying straight off the bridle you shrink your wind window dramatically. Adding a bit of brake will help but consistent lift straight off the bridles seems pretty impossible to me?

I would keep an eye out for a proper seat harness or climbing harness.

Fflexikite - 30-4-2016 at 03:15 PM

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ssayre - 30-4-2016 at 03:27 PM

Whether it's kite on short lines or kite wing, they will both be negatively effected at ground level by upwind obstructions. The only difference is a rigid wing will not collapse.

Fflexikite - 30-4-2016 at 03:34 PM

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Windstruck - 30-4-2016 at 04:24 PM

Interesting that you mentioned the KiteWing. I had been thinking about that. Might be worth exploring, or staying on that general path. You might be able to jury rig something at low cost with PVC pipe and some joints used for irrigation systems and as you said, a tarp. Experiment, experiment, experiment. The KiteWings are certainly refined but if I recall, cost some pretty serious $$$.

Fflexikite - 30-4-2016 at 04:36 PM

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Bladerunner - 30-4-2016 at 06:02 PM

I have no idea why but you might also want to look at paraskiflex? https://www.google.ca/search?q=paraskiflex&biw=1366&...


Fflexikite - 30-4-2016 at 06:12 PM

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bigkid - 30-4-2016 at 08:21 PM

Why the focus on no lines? Can you buggy/board with a kite with lines and handles with a harness?
I ask because I have RA also. Just trying to understand your direction.

bigkid - 30-4-2016 at 08:29 PM

You talked about kite collapse, just not to often. Only takes 1 to go bad and you end up in a box...
I bought into a dealership with the kite wings, bad deal all around. Expensive, needs lots more wind than you would guess and very limited to were you can operate it. More for down hill jumping. IMHO
Where do you live? Would help to answer lots of your questions.

Fflexikite - 30-4-2016 at 09:04 PM

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Bladerunner - 1-5-2016 at 10:39 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Fflexikite  
I have heard of paraskiflex before on this forum. I have seen some videos on here of the kite. It has a odd control method if I remember.

Yeah I think that pic is PL but the head was edited on the original photo so I'm not sure. whoever it is turned the C-quad into a sail by adding the 2 bars

I have only started reading about the arcs so I will have to research more. I downloaded a manual of it about 3 weeks ago. Very interesting design. A true "arc"



Wow you read my post before I took that other stuff out!

I don't know how short you can go with lines on an arc but suspect you can go pretty short? The auto zenith is definitely a quality you may want to consider?

Cool that you have looked at paraskiflex. You are really doing your homework.

I think that almost anything you come up with for a stiff frame like the kite wing or C quad on sticks will require strong winds.

I find that just about 3ft lines on my old NPW made it less radical in flight. I could still draw the whole kite in and roll under power lines or past wind obstacles.

Fflexikite - 1-5-2016 at 12:35 PM

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