True Nex Gen Coyotes? - Powerslide Kaze Tundra SUV

Quote: Originally posted by jcardin

Just came across these sweet lookin off roaders... http://www.icewarehouse.com/Powerslide_Kaze_Tundra_SUV_Nordi... Might also be able to do a 2x200 wheel size mod on these like I did with my Coyotes...

Looking good! I'm thinking this is what you're thinking: http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=31825#pid30...

It does appear from the various views that there is some room to play like this in the frame. Maybe a little shim to build up the height, but otherwise should be good to go.

At least on thick plush grass I felt a difference when I went from 25mm wide wheels to 50mm. I jumped from 150mm to 200mm height at the same time so its hard to know which factor (height or width) might have played a bigger factor. I suspect you could get two taller wheels in those frames, but I doubt you could get wheels much wider than what comes stock.

Good project!

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington

Finally Powerslide has a frame with 150mm wheels instead of 125mm. Good. I sent back their other SUV model w/ 125mm wheels after I realized they weren't 150mm. I just wanted a heat moldable better fitting boot over my Coyotes. But... Just on look and description I don't like the boots on this new model. The toe box volume(low height) is first thing that jumps out at me as negative. I need room around MY toes. It looks like a loafer in front. I like a firm FULL shell- down to toes- and a removable inner. I don't want a comfortable feel from a 'flexible' 'soft front of boot. I get comfort from a good foam or heat moldable liner. I don't like the price either ($469)..but that's close to what's expected With that said..... trying 'em on would be real test. They might feel better than I expected. But that toe box just looks dauntingly tight and toe knuckle rubbing .. Sticking with my Coyotes for now .

Gots to agree with Tuck on this one. Toe room is paramount in my book as well. I have particularly large feet (EU48-49, US14) and I was having an impossible time getting boots that fit. I ended up working with a great skate shop out of Canada and in the end bought Seba boots with Intuition heat moldable liners:

Seba boots with heat moldable liners

Yes, money buys wonderful things.... Just the boots are not as expensive as boots and frames, but I'm not claiming they were cheap. :sniff:

You can see the bolt pattern on the bottoms of the boots in the link below along with how they end up looking once mounted on Coyote frames. Tuck, you'll see that I too needed to make a wooden shim for the front end. No, I wasn't planning to uni-wheel these things; that was just for the photo. :duh:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=31825#pid30...

I wish I didn't own the 125mm SUV frames and wheels either. I doubt I'll ever use them.

Quote: Originally posted by jcardin

It's true, the frame is the main selling point on this new model. I don't know why they even bothered with 125 frames for nordic/off road stuff previously. Maybe the Metropolis SUV boots with these frames would be a good match?

Agreed. 125mm is a waste of good money and engineering effort IMHO. The game starts at 150mm in my mind and gets interesting at 200mm particularly if you fatten up too from 25mm out to 50mm. Doh!

In my limited attempts before crossing over to "wheels of doom" style kite skating I wasn't a big fan at having my feet "above" the wheels as compared to "between" them. Wheels of doom set ups most certainly lengthen the wheel base quite drastically really changing the nature of your turns (more step turns and less carving), but they hold a line a lot better and you can really torque on them to tack a great line. ATB kiters here on PKF have made various supportive comments along these lines too, preferring "drop boards" to decks that sit atop the wheels. Same theory.

I'd think that the larger you go with wheels "under" you that they would only get worse from a performance standpoint regarding resisting the pull of the kite, but they would likely roll better (particularly over grass) so they'd have that going for them. Like all things, trade offs, trade offs, trade offs.

I'd really suggest hooking up with the guys in Canada: Oh Canada!

I called them and they were extremely helpful and knowledgeable. This is particularly a good idea as you seemingly are heading down a path I traveled, viz., splitting up skate boots from skate frames. They can set you up with custom stuff like that. Good luck!

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington

Powerslide (company) just doesn't get it.... From their description on these Kaz Tundra SUV: ' Enhanced stability is immediately noticeable with improved power transfer per stride..' Who is striding with these...? These are not for striding on road or offroad.. They are heavy and awkward for striding and have terrible rolling resistance(not by bearing but simply by wheel size). You do two things with their SUV line: go downhill or powerkite( or be towed by something). That's it. I almost think that Powerslide doesn't have an 'in house' skater who works for them(R&D) and who actually recreates with these. 5- 10 minutes 'striding' with these and you'll be exhausted and frustrated. You hold an edge, perhaps carve.. but striding should be limited an occasional... like to go 100 yards to get over to the chair lift..or to get around beach puddle or down beach parking lot because you didn't get close spot. Frames seem good.... wheels seem right... just need a better boot to match.

Tuck, you nailed it again! I absolutely HATE striding in all of my off-road skate setups when on grass, whether it be 125mm SUVs, 150mm (both Coyote and Powerflide Nordic) or 200mm wheels of doom. All four of these setups absolutely SUCK for self propulsion and I'm a solid skater so my technique is not the issue here.

The grass I've seen these skates go on in videos is some sorry-azzed ultra short cut dried out crap on boiler plate dirt, which is nothing at all like the natural grass fields around me which are comparatively lush with soft dirt underneath and kept comparatively long. I've taken my Powerslide SUVs on artificial turf fields (the kind with very short "grass" with millions of tiny shredded tire bits) and they SUCKED there too for "striding". Really sucked.

As Tuck said, they're pretty much only good for downhill bombing (somebody else, not me), kite skating, or pulling crazy stunts like getting towed behind a pickup truck for some good, clean, all-American redneck fun. Otherwise, save your clams.

My pair arrived today

Quote: Originally posted by jcardin

Just got the skates and they look pretty sweet. The bottoms from front to back seem rigid enough though I haven't even tried them on yet. Material quality seems high. There are 3 bolts that the boot attaches to the frames with, 2 in the front both off center and slightly diagonal from each other and one standard back, centered. My 2x200mm wheels look like they would work if I just add some 1/4? to 1/2? Inch thick risers in between the boot/frame with some longer bolts. Nothing else should cause any rubbing from the frame itself once risers are implemented. Frames wheel area is wider than the metropolis SUV, with larger and wider wheels (cores/hubs width that is.) I have some powerslide roadrunner 150mm PU wheels that should also work for a street rather than off road conversion. More fun to come!

Good stuff! It will be nice to see some pics of the various mods you describe along with a description of their actual field use. Go get 'em tiger.

2x200 mod is easy peasy

Well, it looks like just a few standard "nuts and bolts" hardware additions converts these to a 2x200mm (1&1/4 wide tire) off roader like my Coyotes previously.

And...it was so simple and easy unlike with the countless hours spent on the Coyotes and heavy irreversible modding.

These can be converted back to normal with no sign of alteration. Currently, I'm using some mere steel and aluminum 8mm? spacers as risers to run my longer bolts through but larger blocks of wood, aluminum or even plastic with the needed holes drilled through would probably make more sense.

I figure I can get away with it this way at least for now due to the 3 instead of traditional 2 mounting holes and bolts.

Sadly, the boots do not seem to be meant for near as extreme use as the Coyotes, mainly due to their lower cut.

As for the 1 1/4" wheels fit - I only needed two standard skate/skateboard O-rings, one on each side for a perfect fit within the frames.

One done and the other to follow, then I will try a simple test, but darn those boots are too tight (one size bigger anyone?)

Quote: Originally posted by jcardin

Well, it looks like just a few standard "nuts and bolts" hardware additions converts these to a 2x200mm (1&1/4 wide tire) off roader like my Coyotes previously. And...it was so simple and easy unlike with the countless hours spent on the Coyotes and heavy irreversible modding. These can be converted back to normal with no sign of alteration. Currently, I'm using some mere steel and aluminum 8mm? spacers as risers to run my longer bolts through but larger blocks of wood, aluminum or even plastic with the needed holes drilled through would probably make more sense. I figure I can get away with it this way at least for now due to the 3 instead of traditional 2 mounting holes and bolts. Sadly, the boots do not seem to be meant for near as extreme use as the Coyotes, mainly due to their lower cut. As for the 1 1/4" wheels fit - I only needed two standard skate/skateboard O-rings, one on each side for a perfect fit within the frames. One done and the other to follow, then I will try a simple test, but darn those boots are too tight (one size bigger anyone?)

Those do look cool! Man, that is a lot of stack height. If you do get a larger boot it looks as if your spacers will need to be a few millimeters taller. From the pic it looks as if the toe of the boot barely clears to front wheel. Good job.

Quote: Originally posted by victor_spin

Hi guys This is my first post. Just found the forum by luck. We were just discussing if we could put 200mm wheels on SUV skates and BAM we found you. So... thanks for sharing. I love it. I would like to see videos of you using it with the kite just to get an idea of how it works. Do you have something? Do you have more info about how it works now that some time has passed since you made the setup? Thanks guys!

Victor - welcome to the Monkey House! Always room for a few more good chimps. From your post quoted above I was having a hard time figuring out if you are actually a kiter. You seemed to me perhaps to be a skater but not (yet!) a kiter. If so, welcome again! There are a ton of fun and productive ways to harness the wind and those of us on the forum are darn glad it involves kites!

As for your 200mm wheel question. Yes, 200mm wheels are certainly possible with an array of set up options. Some are with solid polyurethane wheels while others are inflatables sort of like mini mountain bike wheels. Kite Skating, in case this isn't already old knowledge for you is a form of land sailing of sorts. You roll along a tack line similar to a boat on open water, more or less going at 90 deg to the wind direction (if the wind is blowing from the North the kite skater is rolling more or less East and West). To accomplish this you need to drop your hips and angulate similar to how a downhill ski racer navigates a turn in a Downhill race with a type of whole body angulation bracing off the wheels while the kite pulls you along pulling a little ahead of directly downwind to you (the kite will appear to have surged forward of downwind relative to the kiter). Typically you are strapped into a harness so the pull of the kite comes out of your core.

Pulling this off takes developing some leverage off of your wheels. With wheels as large as 200mm I at least have found it much better to have my boot BETWEEN my wheels not ABOVE my wheels.


[img][/img]


In this picture the skate on the right has 200mm inflated knobby wheels (think mini mountain bike wheels) while the skate on the left has 150mm inflated slicks (think mini road bike wheels). For riding on grass I much prefer the 200mm knobbies.

The setup shown here is something we refer to as "Wheels of Doom". I won't elaborate as to why. With this sort of set up BETWEEN the wheels the base of your foot is more or less at the same level as the wheel axles and it is possible to really leverage the heck out of the wheels. I personally have had less success with set up like the one shown below (with three wheels of course):



[img][/img]


Most people call this second set up "Coyotes" because this was what Rollerblade sold them as quite a few years ago with a dedicated boot (the one show here is a custom boot). Coyotes had 150mm inflated slicks and were Rollerblade's attempt at an all-terrain skate.

The basic trade off is as follows: Coyotes have a much shorter wheel base so you can "carve" them as you could other 3-wheel street skates (albeit not quite as sharply). Wheels of Doom have much longer wheel bases so they must be step turned but you can hold a long straight line with them perpendicular to the wind which is desirable for a lot of kite skaters and you can really leverage them. Bottom line, fast straight powerful lines with Wheels of Doom, much more freestyle capability with Coyotes.

Others may jump in an agree or challenge me on these statements. These of course are only my opinions based on some modest experience. I know there are some folks on this Forum who really like kite skating with Coyotes.

One crazy ass dude modified his Coyotes with two 200mm wheels instead of the usual triple 150mm set up:

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=31825#pid30...


Good luck!

great!! they look like fast rolling

I still would like to see the videos of the Tundra with 200mm wheels from JCardin