Power Kite Forum

Line Wear

brockrock1000 - 21-7-2016 at 03:24 PM

I had a good little static session today in some moderate winds, and while I was flying, I noticed something.

The area of my Flexi lines where they typically wrap when the kite loops appeared to be obviously discolored (muted) compared to the rest of the lines. I'm guessing that what I saw - at a distance and against the backdrop of the bright sky - was mostly the ink having worn away in that area, and a post flight inspection did not reveal any fraying or thinning that I could see.

I rarely loop the kites more than three times and never more than four. As I have progressed flying though - and getting more confident in higher winds - I've been putting the kites and lines through their paces. Up until today, I have not seen any wear at all on the equipment, and this got me to thinking.

Is there any type of dressing that folks use on their lines to keep them lubricated? Is it recommended to flip them after so many hours?

I'm also guessing that folks doing back country skiing/boarding and long distance buggying pack extra line sets just in case.

abkayak - 21-7-2016 at 06:41 PM

Flexi brake and power line are different strength and a left to right switch won't matter when it comes to looping the kite..when you fly static I think you tend to loop the kite it's part of learning real kite controll...truth is its definately not good for the lines friction is a killer. Now that I'm in motion and my equipment has that much more use I kinda shy away from it unless I need a little more juice to get going or you know I just go wtf lets have fun...I don't think many travel w/ xtra lines but I always travel w/ an xtra kite

ssayre - 21-7-2016 at 06:47 PM

flipping end to end might help after several hours use. They would rub in a different spot on the lines. I have a set that might extend the life as there is some minor fraying. At any case, even if they break, they can be re-purposed as short lines or line extensions.

brockrock1000 - 22-7-2016 at 04:58 AM

Thanks. All good points. Yeah, I was talking flipping end to end since this wear area is not really in the middle, but closer to the handles.

Each time I bought a kite, I went ahead and bought dedicated line sets and handles for them, and this has made it much easier when I take others out flying with me. I have found that I am using the Rage 3.5 the most, as it seems to fly the best of the set (1.8, 2.5, 3.5, 4.7) and likes most of the standard wind conditions we get here (5-15 MPH). It can also pull like a well fed mule, so I look forward to taking it with me skiing. This is also the kite that I noticed the wear on its lines, and what I forgot to mention above was that there was also some associated 'line creaking' under load that I have not felt/heard before when its lines were wrapped.

It seems that Flexi does put something on their new line sets, and if I had to place it, I'd say it's some type of light oil. New line sets seem to attract sand on the beach, and after wrapping the lines up post flight around the handles, I always have some of this stuff on my fingers.

So I think what I will do is wipe some mineral oil onto my 3.5's lines in the area where I noticed this wear and see if this solves the creaking issue. I would think that this creaking greatly enhances line wear, and if it can be minimized, I'd think the life of the lines could be extended.

I'll follow up after a number of hours flying.

indigo_wolf - 22-7-2016 at 06:15 AM

Quote: Originally posted by brockrock1000  

So I think what I will do is wipe some mineral oil onto my 3.5's lines in the area where I noticed this wear and see if this solves the creaking issue. I would think that this creaking greatly enhances line wear, and if it can be minimized, I'd think the life of the lines could be extended.

I'll follow up after a number of hours flying.


Regarding mineral oil for flying lines.....



Mineral oil is going to be too heavy and attract grit/dirt which will just act as an abrasive.

If you are flying at the beach or in dusty conditions you might consider periodically cleaning your lines to remove grit that already accumulates on the lines.

What some sport kite fliers use is silicone spray (the type without additional additives or carriers

There's a discussion about it here:

Teflon spray for lines

Others have also reported good results with a thread lubricant like "Sewer's Aid" or "Thread Magic"

Slippery Lines

ATB,
Sam

bigkid - 22-7-2016 at 06:41 AM

As always, Sam is right.:thumbup:
I have a company that makes a liquid that helps prolong the life of kite lines. I will post the product as soon as I get back to the kite trailer.
The stuff works by coating the lines with a silicone type liquid. More to come...

ssayre - 22-7-2016 at 06:49 AM

Creaking is bad. The most line wear I've encountered is when my brother was flying one of my kites and had several twists in the lines and as he was pulling the handles back and forth it was making loud creaking sound. When I looked at the lines afterwards it had already slightly abraided the lines at the twist section of the lines. I bought the kite used and had flown it many hours prior to this and the lines hadn't shown any appreciable wear until this creaking event. In other words it doesn't take long to wear the lines once this happens.

also, not all lines are created equal. My pl lines will tolerate at least 4 twists without creaking or heavy resistance while both sets of hq lines wouldn't tolerate more than 2 twists without heavy resistance. I view the hq lines as almost unflyable for fun static flying but fine for traction. Maybe try the slippery line methods as Sam pointed out or if no luck there maybe get a dedicated set of better lines for static fly.

I had a 4m twister that I put hundreds of hours on static and the lines remained slippery and didn't have hardly any noticeable wear.

brockrock1000 - 22-7-2016 at 07:07 AM

Well, OK then.

I had to watch that somewhat vague and slightly ambiguous video several times to really harness a strong understand of the actual point that was trying to be imparted (in this case, regarding the application of mineral oil as a lubricant and protectant for my fly lines), but the sense that I got in the end - and, after a second and strong cup of coffee to help me clearly focus and give it some deep and cogent consideration - was that mineral oil applied to my fly lines for such a purpose would prove itself to be a vile and odious substance rendering it to be - in this case - a great big 'H...E...Double Toothpicks' NO!:D:o

Silicon it is then..!

Many Thanks!!!

Chook - 22-7-2016 at 07:28 AM

Yep......... Sewers Aid or pure silicon oil from a sewing machine retailer (NOT sewing machine oil though) is the go as it dries out and doesn't attract the dirt/sand. I bought a 1 litre bottle for AUS $38.00 and have given some to friends that swear by it now and wonder how they did without it. It does wash off if kitesurfing though as it's soluble. I use it on all my stunt kites too. Make sure you pack your lines separately to the kite, after you apply it, as it may bleed some colour out of the lines and stain your kite. When it's totally dry this isn't a problem, but with a heavy application there will be a risk of bleeding. It makes the lines look brightly coloured again and are then friction free.
Put a few drops of silicon oil on a small 50mm x 50mm bit of flannelette and run it up all the lines replenishing as necessary and then just fly them dry.
I use it on my depower ropes as well.

Check the lines, end for end them to double the life but replace if frayed.
In every case I've had that a front power line has broken on a fixed bridal kite, it has ripped the complete rear brake bridal tabs out of the kite on that side as the brakes are trying to retain the kite. Easy to repair but very time consuming opening up the trailing edge of the kite to get access to the damage.

I have found that stronger lines are required when hotwiring as well, due to the lack of a shock absorbing seat harness. The direct pull onto the buggy equals a lot more direct shock loading on your lines.

brockrock1000 - 22-7-2016 at 07:43 AM

So, I guess another question while this is going. If one of the end loops breaks or is showing wear, what do folks do? The Flexi lines are sewn - as I imagine most are - and I assume nobody repairs a break in the field by stitching it. Would a simple figure eight loop work? I know this would create a length issue versus the other lines, but in a pinch?

Chook - 22-7-2016 at 07:52 AM

Stitching is a good idea and stronger, but a lot of my lines only have overhand knots in the sleeved ends. (They were previously stitched from new)

See here how I do the stitching. ;)

http://www.extremekites.com.au/blogs/entry/239-phase-4-bridl...

bigkid - 22-7-2016 at 07:55 AM

I have used this stuff to help revitalize some worn out lines.
KGB Line Life.
If this stuff isn't any good, I just replace the lines.

bugymangp - 22-7-2016 at 07:56 AM

i have been using the same line set for years on all my kites.
i only use one line set for all my kites . but im very old school i fly on handles using q powerline. q powerline doesnt even need to be sleeved. i dont keep lines
on every one of the kites i own. i must have 1000`s of hours on the same line set but i do run the line set out
and run a wet rag down the lines and i can see the dirt and sand on the rag when done and flip them around once and while.

brockrock1000 - 22-7-2016 at 08:04 AM

Lots of great info! Thanks all!

When it comes to cars, most folks tend to simply fix them, and by that, I mean when they break, or show signs of breaking very soon, we react. Tow companies make lots of money because of this.

On the other hand, airplanes, boats, and other mechanical things that can result in great inconvenience and threat to life when they break, we tend to maintain.

I would put kiting equipment in the 'maintain' category. It seems relatively simple to do so, and getting stuck miles from base with broken equipment while traction kiting could be a real hassle.

As I progress, traction kiting will be the next step, and I am trying to add this maintenance aspect to the hobby.

I appreciate all the replies to my questions as always!

skimtwashington - 22-7-2016 at 01:35 PM


Quote:

The Flexi lines are sewn - as I imagine most are - and I assume nobody repairs a break in the field by stitching it. Would a simple figure eight loop work? I know this would create a length issue versus the other lines, but in a pinch?



To address that...

Sewing?....The ONLY place where it is sewn is on sheath (ends). It may break elsewhere along line, but you can- right at loop.

For repair IN THE FIELD:

I have extra kites in the car so if a Line breaks, all my kites have their own fly lines I can borrow... or probably I might just use another kite.

You can.... and people have.... tie both ends together in a knot. The problem is two fold: the line may be too short to 'make up' on handles lead line... and also...Making a knot reduces the breaking strength there by 50%, making a 2nd break there more likely.

You can do a splice repair if you have piece of extra flyline and a piece of 'splicing' wire or a splice tool in your buggy,ATB, kite repair kit. You can actually join both ends of the break... Or for proper repair.... splice in a small piece in between broken line ends- with a little line trim- to get a true length match(a double splice).
It's nice to try and get the exact length repair, but if your close, you have adjustment on handle's LEAD LINE by moving up or down, to make up for slight extra few inches or loss of few inches. Practice and you will get repair better first try without too many adjustments.



Orrrrr.........You can purchase a full 4 line set and add to repair kit as backup. This is the easiest thing to do and get back to flying quick. This and/or get line from another RTF kite.

A break in the line can happen anywhere. if it does happen at loop at very end..... you have to make a new loop.......And you want to Sheath it first unless it's a Q LINE .


Learn to splice and practice w/ just some pieces.

The repair can be quite strong and permanent if done properly, but the main reason is to save $$. Lines are expensive.



A repair by line

rtz - 22-7-2016 at 01:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington  


Lines are expensive.


Grab some during the half price sale:

http://www.panshkite.com/index.php?gOo=goods_search_list.dwt...

brockrock1000 - 22-7-2016 at 02:44 PM

Thanks Ski for the info and diagrams. I do have a couple extra line sets in my bag, but I like the idea of developing all of these other sub skills related to this hobby, and I think - as soon as I have a line, bridle, or kite failure - I will attempt to fix it myself. I've done a fair bit of Youtube surfing regarding these matters, and there is a wealth of info there.

As far as any sewing needed, I would probably just prepare everything for this, and bring the item(s) to a local tailor I have used. I'm thinking that she would love a job that did not involve a button, zipper, or pants that were mail ordered and arrived about an inch too long...

I did take the kites out today for a session, and I used silicon spray on the 2.5's lines. Winds were too high for the 3.5, so that will be treated next. After doing so, and then wiping them down with with a cloth, they looked nice and bright again and like new. Then, when I put the kite aloft, it seemed to zip back and forth like green corn through the new maid. It was really something...

Chook - 22-7-2016 at 07:31 PM

I usually wear out 2 line sets a year buggying. But cover a lot of kilometers. 6,000 plus logged kilometers every year.
Many hours of turning and constant flying this is an acceptable requirement for the fun I glean from it.

Down turning the kite in turns I try and spin the handles/strop line, on my safety Wichard as soon as possible so as not to have the lines wrapped causing more wear. Crossed lines is the biggest killer of line sets I've found.

As said above try and keep them clean as possible too, washing mud and fine sand off after a session. If they get soiled I just dunk them in a tub of water and swish them about changing the water till it remains clear. Then when they dry (out of the sun light) I re silicon them before my next flying session. Most times I don't have to do anything but check them for wear occasionally.

My beaches are arctic white sand and it's very fine. Squeaks as you walk on it, so not much maintenance required, where in Queensland on the East coast it's murder on my lines with brown sharp grains of sand on the beach.

I have been flying Ozone R1's lately rather than my Vapors and I still give the lines the silicon oil treatment. Particularly around the areas where the 4 pulleys run in the kites bridals.

I just love my buggy time. http://www.extremekites.com.au/topic/15988-easter-at-yeppoon...