Jseegs - 10-3-2007 at 03:26 PM
Hey, I've been flying stunt kites for a few years now and have become interested in some of the traction sports (snowkiting and landboarding) I've
been looking to get a nice beginner package and found this in my price range. . .
http://www.cobrakite.com/ballist.html
I'm wondering if anyone can offer some feedback on this particular kite. The size appealed to me as it's a little larger and hopefully I have enough
kite/snowboarding experience to learn to manage it but won't outgrow it too soon. Let me know what you think, thanks!
Seeger
PS I'm 5'11'' 150lbs
code - 10-3-2007 at 04:20 PM
I haven't heard anything about those, although I've seen them quite a bit advertised and cobra kites isn't a bad shop (that's not to say either way if
the kite is a good or bad purchase). For the same price you can get an HQ Beamer or Radsail though and it seems that a lot of people have flown
those.
I've got a Beamer TSR 5m that I'll probably never sell as it's great for higher wind days and has enough pull and grunt to use mountainboarding or
buggying. Even a little pop to practice jumps and scuds.
The 3m-4m range for a new flier is a great range too. Don't worry about outgrowing your first traction kite as we've said it over and over, you'll
more then likely keep it once you feel you've out grown it for those high wind days when you're too scared or feel like you'll be too over-powered to
pull out the new larger kites.
Noticed that you had the cobra kite link...you local to that area?
~Joe
Jseegs - 10-3-2007 at 04:28 PM
Thanks for the reply, not local to cobrakites, I found it through Froogle. I'm from the midwest, North of Milwaukee on Lake MI, but go to school in
South central MN (cold and windy).
I do like what I've read about the Beamer 3.6. My reasoning for the ballistic was the included bar, however I imagine if it's included it may not be
as quality. Also, would switching from stunt kites to traction be easier using handles rather than a bar? I've read up on the handles vs. bar debate
and am still undecided. Am I correct in saying a bar is something that can be added on later?
Thanks again, can't wait to get into this sport.
Seeger
code - 10-3-2007 at 06:02 PM
To answer your questions, Yes, a bar can be bought after purchasing a kite ( I'll comment on that in just a bit though).
You'll find coming from flying 2 line stunts that you'll have more control over the kite flying with handles as being able to apply brakes really does
help with the controls and turns. With that said, the bar offers something for most that is easier / more comfortable and/or a known feeling for those
of us that have done board sports like wakeboarding, etc. Thus making it a comfort thing moreso then a control thing. So when thinking about using a
bar over handles, ask yourself if you want more control or less control and more of a comfortable feeling? Although you may feel perfectly comfortable
with handles since you've flown the stunts. I use to fly stunts and felt more comfortable on a bar and was willing to give up some of the control for
that.
As for purchasing a bar later on...some kites that come with the bar setup are tuned to be flown on a bar. That's not to say that you can't buy the
bar later, but you may find that the kites tuned to be flown on a bar turn a bit faster then those not tuned for a bar.
So the break down for control and turning ability in short would probably go something like this (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong):
Handles- excellent control as you can virtually pivot the kite while applying slight brake to one side while turning with the other. Good for
learning the in's and outs of 4 line kites (how the brake lines effect and can help your flying, tuning, etc.).
Bar on Bar setup Kite - turns well, but is not capable of the sharper turns where brakes may need some application. Thus not allowing any brake input
other then brake on and brake off ..basically all or nothing deal (unless you do a cross-over setup ...which is best described by Pablo :tumble: ).
Bar setup on 4 line static foil not setup for a bar - will turn even slower then the bar on bar setup kite. Causing the flier to think a bit more
about where the kite is flying, etc. to be able to begin turns a bit earlier on, etc. Other features are the same as the bar on bar setup kite... all
or nothing brake unless you do the cross-over setup.
I bought a little devil 4.5m for my re-intro back into the sport. Flew it for a few months on handles and then put a bar on it. The kite flew what I
felt was perfectly good. So it can be done..it just does as I stated above, limits how many mistakes you can make while flying.
The other option for you if you were considering the 3.6 Beamer is the 3.6 Beamer TSR which comes with a bar and not handles. How the TSR series flies
on handles I don't know. Don't have a pair of handles anymore and never bothered to try them out on it. If you're interested in that I'm sure someone
here will be willing to give it go.. (don't ya love how I offer up everyone elses help through out this :smug: ).
If it were me, I'd probably do what I did before..start on handles, buy a bar to fly on my handle kite and then go all out to using a bar like I am
now. It helped me understand the concept of a 4 line kite a bit more, also allowed me to know how the handles work over a bar, etc. If you're
limited in funds though and really want a bar and a kite tuned to be flown with a bar, the TSR is the way to go. Fun kites, durable, offers enough
umph and competitively priced. Not sure if Radsail offers kites on bars. Ozone has a few and so does Flexi, but they're a bit more spendy.
Hope this helps a bit.
~Joe
Jseegs - 10-3-2007 at 10:51 PM
Wow, thank you so much for the reply. I'm certainly leaning towards a Beamer II 3.6 w/handles. After so much searching for info on the sport, it's
nice to be able to just ask people straight up for advice, you got me so much more info much more quickly. Thank you!
Seeger
Kiteboarder2B - 11-3-2007 at 12:50 AM
Jseegs, I own a Ballistic Burner 3.6 and like you had trouble coming across many reviews of them. The reason???? Because the Beamer is the around same
price.
First off I fly my Burner with handles and haven't as of yet with a bar. So no comparison there. What I can tell you is that the burner is
sslllooowww. Turn like a dog, even with 4-line control. Power is good on the middle in the wind-window, down right like a train. However this kite
stinks at the edge of the window. It'll fly there, but it tends to luff alot when you re-direct from the edge of the window. Upwind riding is tough.
The kite doesn't fly well at the edge, coupled with slow turning makes for slow going upwind. By comparison, I can pull out my Littel Devil 2.1 and
generate almost as much power with it's speed, plus the dang thing is as maneuverable as a Ferrari. It slightly smaller so it does have that going for
it, but still 3 or 4 times as fast as the Burner.
Also the quality is passing, but by no means up to the standards of some of the others out there. I've had the Burner over 2 years now and it's
starting to really fray bad in some areas. The little devil was bought just a couple months later than the burner and is still as crisp and intact as
the day I bought it. For that matter my 1M Imp is going on 3 or 4 years now and still crisp and fresh with not frays or tears. Can't say enough about
Ozone quality.Top notch. Also the lineset that came with my burner was pretty "cheap" compared to the lineset that came with my Littel Devil. It kept
sticking to itself all the time.
I checked out a Beamer today, and to be honest, by all the reviews I've read and by the quality I've seen, I wish I had bought one of those instead,
Oh well. I didn't know, and If I remember correctly, I was the guinea pig for them here. Not that I could of told you the difference back then between
it and a Beamer. No matter the first kite, you'll always cherish it for "getting you into the sport." I know my Burner will always have a special
place in my heart, mostly because I got what I think to be my coolest static flying photo with that kite and my knowledge of 4 lines.
In summary, buy a Beamer.
code - 11-3-2007 at 06:03 AM
Thought someone on here had bought a Ballistic. I know I was looking at one there for a while when I first re-entered the sport because of the price
as well, but ended up getting a used little devil 4.5 instead. One of the best purchases I've made.
Sorry that you ended up to be the tester on those and found out that it wasn't completely what you had hoped. Have made purchases like that myself,
lessons learned I suppose.
I have found that my line sets stick quite a bit as well, but after a bit of use that subsides until they get wet and stick again. Don't know how you
get away from that completely.
~Joe
Kiteboarder2B - 11-3-2007 at 07:56 AM
well the ballistic's lineset is the only spectra line I own that is this bad. The ozone'z lineset will stick to itself every once in awhile, but the
ballistic is just plain ridiculous and will stick to itself any chance it gets. Not that it can't easily be remedied with a new lineset, just that I'd
point out that it comes with a crappy one.
I will say this for Ballistic though, their kites sure do look good in the air
Kiteboarder2B - 11-3-2007 at 07:57 AM
When I said they look good in the air there was suppossed to be a pic, so here it goes again
acampbell - 11-3-2007 at 08:06 AM
FWIW, HQ tells me the new Beamer III will fly as well if not better on a bar with no mods. Might try it today if the wind is right.
Jseegs - 11-3-2007 at 08:28 AM
Thanks again everybody,
acampbell, That kind of leads to my next question(s) (oh so many). Can anybody offer thoughts on the beamer II series vs. the III's? Hhow a Beamer II
3.6 matches up to a III 3.0 or 4.0? Other than size differences, is it easier to add a bar to the III series?
Seeger
code - 11-3-2007 at 02:52 PM
From what I've heard and read thus far on the Beamer III, it's more stable in the air and at the edge of the wind window then the Beamer II series.
Not sure about how it flies on a bar, but when I mentioned possibly getting a 4m myself to Tim at HQ, and that I wanted to fly it on a bar, he seemed
to come off as though it would work fine on a bar. Adding a bar to the II series or the III series is going to be just swapping the handles out with
the bar, not difficult to do...just a matter as to how it handles on a bar. My guess would be that it's probably going to be about the same either
way. Hopefully someone will chime in though as I'm interested to hear about how it flies as well.
Get the 4m (should give you a nice range of winds to fly in)...you've flown stunts before and you're trying to get into landboarding, snowkiting, etc.
which should be more then enough umph for you. I wouldn't recommend anything larger than that and I definitely suggest that you take it out the first
time in low wind conditions, as I would recommend for any new traction kite.
Overpowered and ignorant to what the kite is capable of can lead to a really bad situation.
~Joe
ps. It's good that you're asking the questions...better to do that then to end up hurt.