Power Kite Forum - HQ Matrixx III Review

HQ Matrixx III Review

nate76 - 7-10-2016 at 01:27 PM

HQ has officially announced the next generation of the Matrixx on their website:

http://www.powerkites.de/Products/Kites/Depower-Kites/Matrix...

Haven't heard exactly when it will be hitting the US shores, but definitely looking forward to it. Looking sexy as always!

rtz - 7-10-2016 at 07:30 PM

Did the 9m Matrixx II ever get released? I know someone who was going to buy one but it was unavailable. What was the deal with it? Also; did the Toxic II ever get released? What's up with that?

nate76 - 7-10-2016 at 09:13 PM

Yes, I owned the 9m Matrixx II - sold it about a month ago. My understanding is that size has sold out and they are not planning on producing any more since the Matrixx III's are being released.

Most of my experience is with the depower kites - I'm not as familiar with the Toxic II's (assumed it had been released). Feel free to PM me about a particular size and I can ping Chris at HQ on Monday and get more info.

Nate

nate76 - 4-11-2016 at 01:35 PM

More information is starting to trickle in regarding the Matrixx III.

U.S. pricing has been announced, and it looks like it is going to be very competitive:

09m Matrixx III (kite only) $1149
12m Matrixx III (kite only) $1325
15m Matrixx III (kite only) $1499
18m Matrixx III (kite only) $1699

Good news for all you folks that are starting to have too many bars lying around: it is going to be sold default as Kite Only. You can purchase the One Bar with it [update: MSRP for bar now $400] or just use an FLS bar that you already own.

The 15m and 18m versions will be made out of the 20D fabric that was standard on the Matrixx II. To withstand the higher loads put on smaller kites, the 9m and 12m kites are being made out of 30D - which is still lighter weight than most.

Here's a bit of a preview (and some amazing skills) - looks like it is going to be a nice balance of stability, speed and hangtime. Can't wait to get my hands on one

gemini6kl - 4-11-2016 at 01:57 PM

wow three 12m all at different prices must be some kind of new high technology in each one. nate care to explain. lol :lol:

ssayre - 4-11-2016 at 02:00 PM

Damn, guess they are proud of the bar. Probably on par with others but still shocks me how much bars are.

nate76 - 4-11-2016 at 02:17 PM

Quote:

wow three 12m all at different prices must be some kind of new high technology in each one. nate care to explain. lol :lol:

Ah! Thanks for catching that - listing adjusted. I'll fire my editor. Wait - that's me. :crazy:

Quote:

Damn, guess they are proud of the bar. Probably on par with others but still shocks me how much bars are.

Ya, that's kind of the going rate these days - actually comparable or less than many of the competitors. Good news is that once you get one you should be able to use it on multiple platforms: it looks like HQ is moving that way with making the One bar standard on both the Matrixx III, Ignition II and other kites coming out in the future.

I actually think the move to sell bars separately is a smart move by the industry. Let folks decide on a bar that they really like, and then use it all the time. It saves money in the long run and ends up being safer since you get more used to a single safety system. There is enough modularity in the Front-Line Flagout systems now that people can pretty easily use a single bar across multiple brands names.

B-Roc - 4-11-2016 at 03:14 PM

Best snow kiting video in a while. Really enjoyable to watch. I'm not fan of the monochromatic like color schemes on kites like this or the Chrono or Montana but that kite sure can perform. I don't think one bar for all kites is the way forward. IMO it is way easier and safer to not have to switch lines/bars every time you setup a foil. That can be a real challenge when the wind is blowing .

I way prefer to leave my kite in the bag, run the lines out, stake the bar, go back to the bag and open the kite with everything firmly secured as opposed to trying to hold a flapping kite down and fiddle with attaching lines to pigtails in the cold or on ice. Just my $0.02 and I also believe bars are way over priced for what they are (carbon, maybe a pulley or clam cleat and $20 worth of leader line). People pay that so they can charge it but when you sell a kite as KO or complete and you see the cost of the bar... I'd prefer it buried in the total price and not think about as it just feels wrong to me.

nate76 - 4-11-2016 at 06:05 PM

B-Roc - I appreciate your insights regarding bars. I've found myself on both sides of the argument. Up till last winter, I was very much of the mindset of having a bar for every kite. Then I started doing some back-country excursions involving hiking at 12,000 ft. I quickly realized that for an overweight, middle-aged gasbag like myself - every pound counts. The idea of being able to fit two kites and one bar in a normal kitebag became very appealing for the type of stuff I was trying to do.

You raise some very legitimate concerns though when it comes to rigging a kite up in the real world. There is nothing pretty or fun about trying to get lines attached in the bitter cold when your fingers are frozen and stuff is blowing around, trying to get away from you. Add to that post-holing back and forth in knee-deep snow, and you've got a situation that legitimately sucks.

I guess in the end, there isn't any reason why a person can't still have a bar for every kite: I think it will ultimately boil down to whether its worth $400 of convenience to a person or not. For the guy on the Coast who has steady winds, only plans to rig up one kite in a day, and gets to do it in board shorts and flip-flops - having one bar probably makes sense. For an inland winter kiter who can see winds go from 6 to 30+ and back down to low teens in a matter of a couple hours (I've seen that) - maybe the one-bar concept isn't the best idea.

But, I think its good to at least have the option. And I do think that people are going to find a bar system that they really like or prefer over another. So I only see it as goodness that the FLS type bar has become somewhat of a common standard - at least for the moment - that will allow people to pick a bar they really like and use it over multiple platforms or brands. And since bar prices are pretty close between most brands, it allows them to pick one that really suits them best as opposed to feeling like they have to pick one based on price.

Just my $0.02 as well. Thanks for your thoughts

Nate

gemini6kl - 4-11-2016 at 06:19 PM

I like the move to a higher aspect design and the one bar for most kites .The price is also indeed reasonable compared with other brands and that's why I always liked HQ They make great kites for the money.

Feyd - 5-11-2016 at 04:21 AM

Years ago, most kites were available as KO options. Here in the states that option faded. Ozone for example is not offered as a KO option here but over the pond it still is. When Flexibility was still making depower foils, they were available as KO options. HQ never offered their depower as KO until they got into the LEI market. And even then they still sold their foils as RTF.

We will sell out customers Ozone as a KO option for the models that arent available as KO here. But only if they have previously purchased a kite from us with a compatible bar. As equipped with the Reride for example. HQ can sell KO as they aren't using a 5th line and the kites will operate on any 4 line bar with a FLS.

The caveat here is that not all bars are the same. Bar throws vary, trim systems vary, leaders vary. As we've seen in the past some people buy a KO option because they have a bar already but never adapt the bar to the specific kite. A good example of the is the Peter Lynn 07 bar mated to a Charger. In the bar's stock configuration it never allowed the Charger to use its incredibly wide power range. So you would see riders OPd in conditions that were well within the kites performance range of cells.

As a result, some kites get a bad rep. Not because the kite is bad but simply do to a bad bar set up. As the dealer or the manufacturer this is the risk we face as we offer KO options. As the dealer we are somewhat obligated to help the customer tune the bar to work with the clients new kite. Which can be time consuming when you don't have everything on site and have to walk people through it remotely.

For my part, I'm happy to sell HQ as KO. We have enough riders who already ride HQ and would be willing to buy more if we omit the bar. But I'm wary of selling KO to random people putting whatever bar they have handy on a new kite.

In regards to swapping wings mid tour. We do it all the time and its not hard if you have a system and are patient. Funny, many of our clients enjoy doing mid tour swaps as they find it exciting. The wind we start with in one location can be completely different in another as we cover mile let alone mini fronts and stuff caused by topography. First thing is to choose a kite that is less likely to need to be swapped. But when the time comes, have a systme in place, a sequence, and get it dialed.

Re-Ride has made mid tour swaps super easy.

But for just general riding. Havingkites and bars together and ready to go is great and better than having to swap wings each ride. Unwind and go!

ssayre - 5-11-2016 at 07:25 AM

Quote: Originally posted by B-Roc

Best snow kiting video in a while. Really enjoyable to watch. I'm not fan of the monochromatic like color schemes on kites like this or the Chrono or Montana but that kite sure can perform. I don't think one bar for all kites is the way forward. IMO it is way easier and safer to not have to switch lines/bars every time you setup a foil. That can be a real challenge when the wind is blowing .

I way prefer to leave my kite in the bag, run the lines out, stake the bar, go back to the bag and open the kite with everything firmly secured as opposed to trying to hold a flapping kite down and fiddle with attaching lines to pigtails in the cold or on ice. Just my $0.02 and I also believe bars are way over priced for what they are (carbon, maybe a pulley or clam cleat and $20 worth of leader line). People pay that so they can charge it but when you sell a kite as KO or complete and you see the cost of the bar... I'd prefer it buried in the total price and not think about as it just feels wrong to me.

+1 for this in it's entirety.

Yes you can save money by using 1 bar and several kites and that's nice to have that option and maybe some really enjoy switching lines :rolleyes:

But, it's way better to leave all attached IMO.

nate76 - 5-11-2016 at 07:44 AM

Ok, so one point of bitter disagreement: I stinkin' love the monochromatic color schemes! Be it HQ, Ozone, Little Cloud or otherwise.

Some of those kites were getting waaaaay too busy for my taste a couple years ago. It felt like Saved By The Bell had came back to the future and threw up all over a bunch of kite gear.

I'll be sad when the companies decide they need to "innovate" and give it another whirl.

Just MHO, of course

Feyd - 5-11-2016 at 08:11 AM

Always better to leave lines attached.

I can go either way on colors. Monochrome keeps costs down. But man, the old Peter Lynn Venoms, Damn beautiful!

nate76 - 16-11-2016 at 08:09 PM

Some great pictures in the latest Snowflyer for anyone looking for a little stoke for the season!

http://www.powerkites.de/tycon/file.php?id=1639]

OffAxis - 17-11-2016 at 05:35 AM

Yep the Venom's do look pretty cool. From the out side anyways.

Cheddarhead - 30-11-2016 at 10:27 PM

Does the kite only option come with a bag?

nate76 - 1-12-2016 at 05:21 AM

Yep, bag is included.

I hope to have my demo kites in-hand by the end of next week and can get you some more detailed pics then.

nate76 - 12-12-2016 at 01:13 AM

So had my first real outing with the kite over the weekend. Got a little bit of time on the 15m but most of my time was spent on the 12m in some fairly challenging conditions. Winds ranged from almost nothing to gusts in high 20's. I'll wait to do an extended review later, but these were the things that stuck out to me:

1. Fast - the Matrixx 3 feels noticeably faster than the Matrixx 2, both and turning speed and overall speed through the air. Its a snappier, sportier wing. The 15m is very quick for its size, and the 12m feels like a closed cell version of the Montana IX, which is a quick turning kite in its own right.

2. Handled gusts exceptionally well - I was really, really impressed with how well the 12m kite handled the gusty conditions I was dealing with on Saturday. Initially when it was announced that the Matrixx III would be going to a higher aspect ratio, I was a little concerned that some stability was going to be sacrificed. That doesn't seem to be the case at all. It felt as stable - if not more so - than the Matrixx II. When a gust came along, the kite would shape-shift a little bit. I was expecting massive power surges, but they never came. You could certainly feel the the additional power from the extra wind speed, but it was never violent or jerky. I never felt like I was being thrown off-balance by the surges; it just kind of powered through, and was very reassuring in that regard. Very impressed.

3. Floaty - while the pop of the Matrixx III is more subtle than the Montana 9, it felt like it had more float. I came away fairly surprised at how floaty the 12m felt. I should mention that the times when the wind was strong and consistent enough for me to pull off some jumps, I was in complete white-out conditions. So I have no real idea of how high I was getting, but the landings felt noticeably soft.

4. Inlet Screens worked well - Most of the time I was out on the 12m, it was snowing significantly. I had a friend on an open cell kite who had to dump snow out several times. I rode the entire session without opening the dirt-outs; there was only a minor amount of snow after about 3 hours of riding.

5. Great in light winds - ever since HQ started making lightweight fabrics standard on its last generation of kites - from the Montana 9 to the Zeekai, and Matrixx II - light-wind performance has become sort of a hallmark in my mind of the HQ lineup. The Matrixx3 is no exception. Even the 12m kite - which is made from a 30D fabric rather than the 20D used for the 15m and 18m versions - did very, very well at staying up in light winds. I tested the 15m in conditions where the wind would drop to barely perceptible. While there was considerable slack in the lines, the kite stayed fixed at 12 o'clock and kept its shape, just kind of hanging out. This isn't as important on snow, but if you are on water trying to wait out a lull, the ability of the kite to stay up in next-to-no wind can be very handy.

At any rate, those of my 1st thoughts. I'm making a video showing the bag and some other features; I'll post that up later. But that's at least some initial feedback. So far - really impressed and looking forward to more opportunities to test it out.

Memopad - 12-12-2016 at 07:04 AM

That is an AWESOME picture...

TEDWESLEY - 12-12-2016 at 10:03 AM

Ditto on the picture. Looks almost like a deep water (snow IS water) start!

nate76 - 12-12-2016 at 12:11 PM

Thanks guys. Ya, snow was knee to thigh deep - pretty dense powder that kept you on top, but occasionally you would break through into some sugary goodness.

Did anyone ever say snowkiting is addicting??!?

nate76 - 12-12-2016 at 06:32 PM

Here's video going over a few features of the kite like the bag, and line attachments. Nothing exciting, but might be useful information for some folks.

ssayre - 12-12-2016 at 06:59 PM

I was really concerned something was wrong with your head the first couple of minutes but then it appeared and you look quite normal.

nate76 - 12-12-2016 at 07:23 PM

I don't know - normal people might take offense to that. Some things are better left to the imagination.

But you gotta admit, those are some sweet looking feet.

ssayre - 12-12-2016 at 07:38 PM

This might be a dumb question but were you on a frozen lake? Picture and video looked like it. Hard to imagine being where I'm from that the lakes are frozen. We are just starting to get cold

nate76 - 12-12-2016 at 07:50 PM

Actually, its a series of meadows called Rabbit Ears Pass near Steamboat Springs here in Colorado. The pass sits at about 9,000 ft in a snowbelt and tends to be one of the earlier places to get snow. There was a solid two feet of pretty dense base on Saturday - I heard they got another foot or so in the last day or two.

Great for making sure you don't hit any rocks, but man was it a pain to walk through. You actually couldn't really walk through it because it was so heavy. You had to keep your skis on and waddle around while you were setting up your kite for launch and packing down.

We're off to a warm start here as well. The big lake Dillon where a lot of folks kite is supposed to be locked up enough by the end of this week to start kiting. We shall see. Things were off to a bit of a rough start, but seem to be turning around; I think its going to be an all right winter.

FrontRangeJeff - 13-12-2016 at 06:31 AM

Nate,

Rabbit Ears will only get deeper

Normally I use a pair of "Hoks" Skis to get around out there. Since the best meadow is a bit further up the road and requires a short climb back up to the parking area...they make it really easy. I used them the first day up there but decided against it when I met you and Nick on Saturday...did the same thing you did...total mistake. I also normally have a pair of collapsible ski poles at minimum...also left those in the car Saturday, totally helps too.

Sometimes I'll use snow shoes instead but the Hoks are 1000 times better...no sharp tines, no sinking and they glide. They are a really short but wide quasi-cross country ski with a built in climbing skin. I bought them for Joanna (wife) but I've sort of hijacked them for snow kiting too

Check 'em out - totally worth it. Never a single concern of running over lines with them.

Only downside is that I do end up having to ferry both my skis and my boots to where I set up but I'll usually take a small sled anyway with a few kite options...I toss in a small piece of plywood as well so I can step right into my ski boots.

Jeff

FrontRangeJeff - 13-12-2016 at 06:33 AM

I posted above then realized I totally hijacked a cool thread about the Matrixx! Sorry Nate.

nate76 - 13-12-2016 at 08:38 AM

No worries Jeff. It was good seeing you on Saturday, if only in passing (literally). Looked like you had a pretty solid method for getting setup. I've considered using a sled for gear as well. I made the mistake of forgetting my collapsible poles at home on Saturday, which would have come in real handy a couple of times.

In the future collapsible poles and skins I think will need to be standard equipment in my bag for deeper conditions like that. Or the stamina of an 18 year old, but the latter is harder to come by these days.

Cheers!

Nate

nate76 - 30-12-2016 at 02:53 PM

So I've been putting the Matrixx III through the paces the last few weeks. Conditions have run the gamut from smooth wind to trashy wind, light to strong; landboarding to kite skiing. I figured I'd share what will probably be final thoughts for a while for anyone curious about the performance of the kite.

When I heard they were moving to a higher Aspect Ratio for the Matrixx III, my original thought was that it was going to be a hybrid between the Zeekai and the Matrixx II - kind of like the Matrixx II and Zeekai having a baby. And while that may be true to a certain degree - the Matrixx III is certainly faster in all regards than the Matrixx II - the more I ride it, the more the Matrixx 3 feels like a closed cell version of the Montana 9. Which, in my mind, is a huge compliment.

In terms of Aspect Ratios, the Matrixx III (AR 5.25 - 5.5 depending on size) is a closer match to the Montana IX (AR 5.0 - 5.3) than it is to Zeekai (AR 6.8 - 7.1) or even the Flysurfer Speed 5 (AR 6.15). This translates into a kite that has excellent turning speeds, stability, and user-friendliness within it's peer group of closed-cell foil kites. The turning speed of the Matrixx III is on par with the M9, which is quick for a foil kite. It also has the light bar pressure of the Montana, which I personally like. The Matrixx 3 brings all the stability benefits of a closed cell kite, and while the pop feels slightly less aggressive than the Montana IX, the float and hangtime seem better.

In my initial report, I commented that the things that stuck out to me were the speed of the kite, its stability in gusts, its excellent lightwind ability, and its superb hangtime/float. After getting quite a bit more time on it now - in all the different sizes from the 9m to the 18m - those sentiments haven't really changed.

The kite has a reassuring feel to it. I have had a chance to get the kite out in conditions with some sharper gusts, and while it is not not collapse-proof, it does a good job. I feel like I spend less time looking at the kite, wondering what its doing. It just seems to stick wherever I put it. I also feel like I'm sticking more jumps, which may be attributed to its precise feeling. When you put it all together - it all adds up to a confidence building kite that will have you expanding your boundaries. At least it has done that for me. Ultimately the desirability of the Matrixx3 over some other kites like the Speed5 and Chrono2 will come down to personal preference (and cost). If you are willing to sacrifice a little bit of speed and upwind ability to have a quicker turning kite with lighter bar pressure and good stability, then the Matrixx III is going to be a great choice.

Tom Bourdeau, the designer of the Matrixx III and Little Cloud Paragliders, is known for designs that focus on high performance thru simplicity and maximum fun. The Matrixx III has his DNA written all over it and seems to epitomize these concepts. It is a sportier, snappier version of the Matrixx II that is just a delight to fly and will generate grin-inducing jumps in every size.

I hope some of you other guys get a chance to try one. Probably my favorite HQ design to date - they really nailed it on this iteration and I'm looking forward to hearing other people's response once they get a chance to ride it.

Cheers,

Nate