Power Kite Forum

Public safety

Cheeks - 27-10-2016 at 09:34 AM

I posted this earlier to a Big Kid post. Oh Lord...

But seriously, Jeff tickled a point of concern I have about the safety aspects of hi-vis apparel for the safety of the beach goers, rubber necker's and the curious.

We have a problem at JIBE with the weekender-beach goers and their kids. We try to advise them that we have vehicles traveling 30mph up and down the beach with lines that could cut them. They could care less and they let their kids run wild! The smaller ones are the biggest problem. They are like squirrels in the road, you can't figure which way they'll run.

Angus has moved the date up the week and that has helped but Saturday is a challenge. Forget Sunday

Here's my idea... for the buggy pilots... The easiest one is to have
one or 2 high-vis arm bands.
Or a high-vis shirt.
How about a high-vis vest. Several of us have to wear one of those for work.
How about some high-vis tape on our buggys?
A spot of high-vis on our helmets.
Maybe a high-vis flag mounted on the bug?
I also suggest Yard signs along the beach to make the public aware and informed.
(I'll make them for free!) (seriously)

None of the above are expensive!

I wore a high-vis orange shirt at WBB to gather come feed back about the color and had a few favorable remarks. Of course on me it was like seeing a huge orange bill board walking around.

I'm not woossen out here... just sayin that maybe if we as a group could discuss this issue and come up with a plan.. maybe we might be welcomed to fly at more places because of our commitment to the safety of the public. Screw us:evil: I'd rather be sportin Skulls & Crossbones. :crazy:

But those that are in "power" would seriously be interested in our public safety awareness. You know.... "for the good of all or for the greater good" crap.

What say you?

bigkid - 27-10-2016 at 10:13 AM

this is my own opinion,
S----w the public. They would walk in front of a Boing 747 taking off if they were allowed on an airport runway and complain they didnt know about the planes and besides they had the right away. If we had a police escort down the beach it wouldn't make any difference. I think the public would be better off with the hi-vis shirts.
I just like having a shirt that stands out.... just sayin.

BeamerBob - 27-10-2016 at 10:33 AM

I agree with Jeff. The public isn't going to change their behavior because of your shirt or some armbands. I mean we are flying kites 40 feet in the air big enough to cover their car with. They know we are there and don't know to care about us. It's just up to us to control our gear and not hurt them.

markite - 27-10-2016 at 11:51 AM

the other thing that you need to be wary of is making ourselves sound dangerous. If you post warnings about the buggies, the kites, the lines posing possible dangers than the easiest things for the power to be is to eliminate the possible risks to the public and ban buggies or kiting all together.

We have one beach where it gets very busy in the summer and there are buoys marking the swim zone and because it's shallow those buoys can be more than 100yds off shore. You aren't allowed to operate craft or sail in that area but the kite boarders need to get out and away from the shore. So there was an area of a specific beach where accommodations have been made as a kite zone with signs and different color buoys etc - but on a busy weekend the public will fill in and around the kites on the beach and swim in the area designated for boarders when there could be 20-30 surfers going back and forth. The public will not read the signs and do not care at all and they will be the first to complain should anything happen.

Kids will always have their head down, turn and make a bee line to the water or up to their parents etc - the onus is on us to practice safety but if they can't see a buggy first they won't see an arm band until you are on them. I think most people see or hear the kite first and even going slow and keeping a distance people often seemed surprised when they hear the noise from the buggy passing thinking something has snuck up on them. I've thought that maybe i should mount a small bike "ping' bell on my bar that i can flick with my thumb on a busier beach day to let people know i'm coming from behind.

OffAxis - 27-10-2016 at 12:39 PM

What if you strap a few Nerf whistling foot balls to your buggy? The noise would get annoying rather quickly but people could hear you coming.

JimSSI - 27-10-2016 at 01:56 PM

I'm confused - we're supposed to AVOID the children?

soliver - 27-10-2016 at 02:17 PM

I bring my kids to JIBE, and have taught them to treat the beach like crossing the street "look both ways before crossing the beach..." BUT I know the public doesn't have the same mentality so I understand the dilemma. I'd say it's up to us to be able to operate safely and in a controlled enough way to be able to react quickly enough to keep everyone safe. Angus addresses this on his site,.... its called a Jibe. If you don't have the control to be able to maneuver around the crowd you shouldn't be in the buggy. The public won't change, and masses of people are an obstacle I choose not to deal with which is why I don't ride on weekends at JIBE. Just my 2 cents.

If you aren't able to react in time, then IMO you need to wait to ride around other people until you gain that ability to do so.

Bladerunner - 27-10-2016 at 04:02 PM

Jeff is right. You can't stop people from stupid. I work as an electrician and have spent lots of time with Safety standard and caution tape marking out my safe zone. I can be in there with a high vis' vest on and they STILL walk into, under or through my zone in amazing numbers.

Mark is right. If we look like a moving hazard by going all Hi Vis' we only feed into the perception that we are a hazard.

All that said, I have a high vis' vest in my car and do use it when the beach is fogged in. I think the reasons are obvious if you have ever ridden on a beach with traffic in the fog.

When it all comes down to it we are each responsible to pilot our way along the beach ( or park ) in a safe manor. At the same time our actions reflect on the whole community. It's all about applying common sense. If the beach ( park in our case ) gets busy with kids we have to slow down and stop boosting big jumps. If it gets so busy that even going slow isn't safe we must give the space over ( by proposed agreement with our Park Board ) out of courtesy.

Displaying our number is of great value. IT indicates our RIGHT to the public for us to be on the beach. At the same time it allows the public to identify who they have a beef with. In our ( proposed) case with the Parks Board it protects us from repercussions due to non-members acting out of line in our park.

ssayre - 27-10-2016 at 04:43 PM

I'm jealous you guys have moving obstacles to navigate. That would be fun in some regards. All I have are the random lacrosse goals or water meter pits hidden in grass that are 2.5" high to my butt that sits 2" of the ground. Not a fun obstacle when I make a miscalculation

shehatesmyhobbies - 27-10-2016 at 05:54 PM

While high vis isn't a bad idea, I agree with others that it will only help in a small way. Only a select few will give a crap what we are doing and the rest are only concerned with the little bubble around them.

Bladerunner hit it on the head, and as an ambassador to the sport as well as President of NAPKA, I express the importance of us taking on the responsibility of watching for and avoiding pedestrian traffic on the beach as much as possible. One small oops and you can kiss that riding area good bye. Mark also hit on the head, advertising that what we are doing is a sure way to get a complaint from Joe public to a town official then boom, riding area is gone.

At WBB we have the luxury of having our events on the shoulder season, limiting the amount of beach goers, and the ones that are there usually leave us be, and usually find one of us to talk to because they are curious and what to know more so they can tell heir friends and put it on FB and all that jazz. (except that one guy fishing in the Nissan that had 6 miles of beach to fish and stopped his truck in the only area where guys were buggying on hard pack, really dude wtf).

In the end, it is our responsibility to be, well responsible for those we are sharing the beach with. Like is said, I don't think it's a bad idea, but I don't think it will solve the issue of people being people. After all, they somehow missed that 15' long big a$$ colorful kite in the air.

Cheeks - 27-10-2016 at 10:46 PM

Well... All great comments here. I guess that you just can't fix stupid! S----w the public.

Alright, next discussion. Dog poop on beaches and no front fender. :o

skimtwashington - 28-10-2016 at 04:43 AM





Quote:

the other thing that you need to be wary of is making ourselves sound dangerous. If you post warnings about the buggies, the kites, the lines posing possible dangers than the easiest things for the power to be is to eliminate the possible risks to the public and ban buggies or kiting all together.


This is so important. don't talk about speed , lines 'cutting flesh':o or give ANY caution to public or officials.

I have had dogs on the beach- unleashed- who were aggressive and chased me....but am reluctant to speak to owner many times as they might get defensive and turn it around to complain about me(kiters) being a problem to them ...to those in charge .


You have to bite your tongue and treat the public w/ kid gloves and be nice to stupids...Pic your fight when you get banned...not before.

abkayak - 28-10-2016 at 05:00 AM

its nice to be seen...but best to run under the radar
love a good dog chase

bigkid - 28-10-2016 at 05:14 AM

On the other hand the public gets the short straw from time to time.
While at WBB this fall I buggyed up to the north end of the beach with my 12.5m Century and on the way back down the beach I noticed a rather tanned, Bikini clad sunbather laying on a towel. I wasn't going much more than 2-3mph and was about to tack back out to the surf to get another shot down the beach when I noticed the shadow of the kite approaching the beach towel.
It all happened so fast all I could do was yell "Sorry" and keep moving south. You see the shadow of the kite went over the top of the woman and she sat up to see what h*@&!!!!!
I can only imagine what went through her mind. I know what was going through mine.......

Cheeks - 28-10-2016 at 09:06 AM

Some more fuel for the fire...

There are many different things that are on beaches that can cause harm to the public.
Some beaches let cars and ATV's on them, beach maintenance equipment, people with drones, single line kites and 2 line stunters. Cops in cars and ATV's, surfers, and debris of all kind. Umbrellas, pop up canapes, chairs being blown, etc. And lets not forget Jelly fish.

The use of high-vis does not signal impending doom!
For the most part it signals caution.

But to be fair, I've never seen a jelly fish rockin high-vis.

Other verbiage alerting the dummies that there is kite buggy activity on the beach other than "high speed and cuts" on signs could be friendly and courteous. Runners tape off their courses.

As it stands now, it just boils down to buggy pilot responsibility. And you can't fix stupid!

At least we all are talking about safety and that's important.

abkayak - 28-10-2016 at 09:52 AM

jellyfish are kings of hi-viz....bio-luminescence
jusayin

bigkid - 28-10-2016 at 10:16 AM

This year at WSIKF our area was roped off and sandwich boards telling the public to watch out for kite buggys. The signs were out and posted on the beach approaches "No Motorized Vehicles Allowed" didn't stop the idiots from driving down the beach and navigating the barriers and us in the Kite buggies. Even with the screaming and the threat of calling the police didn't stop them from being stupid. It was bad enough when the driver started by calling me some colorful names that began the yelling match. The guys wife joined in shortly after I told him to call the police, his mother roles the back window down and began showing her stupidity of the facts. They did turn around and left the way they came not before they decided to drive over my lines. They did make reference to the fact they were going to tell the event organizers of our poor attitude. We never heard anything from anyone on the subject.
I did feel better after unloading on the 3 tourists. Jelly fish I can deal with, idiots not so much.
If it wasn't for the toothless couple and mama in the backseat, things would have been considered just a normal day. God bless the public......

shehatesmyhobbies - 28-10-2016 at 02:05 PM

@Jeff,

That story was so much better in person! :D

Cheeks - 28-10-2016 at 02:13 PM

Was Jeff wavin his arms and jumpin up and down, shiftin left to right?
Good body language while telling that story?

He's an animated fellow don't ya know.;)

Bladerunner - 29-10-2016 at 12:42 PM

An interesting observation came about when we were working with the Park Board .

When we are out in light winds we are flying our largest kites. Both the kites and us move slow. WE know that we are moving slow but the general public perceives a huge threat.

When the wind is blowing strong and we are tearing it up with our smaller kites WE know everything is getting real but the public sees it different. Because we make it LOOK easy and our kites are so small the public somehow feels more at ease. The fact is our faster kites under bigger load are actually a real threat.

Just because YOU know you are playing on the edge don't ever expect it to look that way to the public. On the opposite end of the scale, just because you are mowing the lawn with a big kite in low wind don't expect the public to see it that way. It is the big kites that scare them.

abkayak - 29-10-2016 at 05:47 PM

^^very true^^