Power Kite Forum

First flight with my Outlaw 10m

adambweird - 12-11-2016 at 03:22 PM

I got to take my 10m Outlaw out for the first time today in some 5mph wind. Gotta say, at this point, i dont really care for flying on a bar or depower. I know it was my first time with it and ill need to fly it more to get used to it, but so far, i like handles on a fixed bridel waaay better. I did mess with the trim but it didnt really seem like i could get anything that would allow me to have any kind of what i would consider to be good steering. Theres probably something im overlooking. All the lines were free and not tangled, all pulleys ran smooth, not sure what other adjustments this thing has, it didnt come with a manual and i cant download the one on flysurfers website for some reason. Hell, it entirely possible the wind just wasnt stong enough, lol. If id had my Crossfire out id have been tearing it up, lol.

John Holgate - 12-11-2016 at 04:44 PM

I would imagine going from a 5m Crossfire to the 10m outlaw that the Outlaw would feel vague, unresponsive and sluggish. But put it in motion with board or buggy with a little more wind and it all begin to make sense. If the kite starts to slow down, let the bar out to give it some speed through the window. Pull the bar in for the turn and let it out again to gain speed across the window. Pull the bar in for a boost in power - but the kite will need sufficient speed or it will begin to stall.

It may take a few hours of flying it for it to start to make sense but depowers are designed as engines - once you're in motion and up to speed, the ability to control your power through the bar is excellent. Static flying a large depower can be....er...cumbersome.

adambweird - 12-11-2016 at 04:53 PM

So ive noticed, lol. I wish there were some other kiters in my area that could help me learn it, but i think im literally the only one, lol. If i could rig it for handles, that sucker would dance! I havent gone in motion as of yet, i have a board, just havent been able to start using it yet. I figured id try some static with the Outlaw to try getting used to a bar and depower before going in motion. Guess i better start rolling with the Crossfire so i can get the Outlaw in its element, lol.

gemini6kl - 12-11-2016 at 04:54 PM

Im not sure if you were trying to say u flew the kite on handels but You need a depower bar and a harness to get the best out of a depower kite any other setup would not make sense. 5mph is borderline to test any kite so not the best conditions . Fixed bridels kites have a lot more power compared to a depower but theyre not as flexible in different conditions. A 10m flysurfer outlaw should be a quite capable and powerful machine . If youre learning to buggy or landboard I recommend you start on a fixed bridel its easier to learn on a small fixed bridle kite like 3 or 4 m then move to a depower .

adambweird - 12-11-2016 at 05:14 PM

My Crossfire flys great in a 5mph wind, granted thats static, but flys great none the less. Ive had that thing flying in next to nothing, took LOTS of movement though the window though. Flying depower is waaaay beyond different to me, lol. I was hoping that with it being larger i could work on learning how it flys in some lighter wind while being static.

hiaguy - 12-11-2016 at 05:21 PM

The Flysurfer folks should chime in here, but I think you need a lot more wind than that to get any sort of responsiveness out of that kite.
Other than that, welcome to the world of depowers.

adambweird - 12-11-2016 at 05:34 PM

Ive been a lil wary of higher wind days to try it due to being unfamiliar with bar and depower plus its size, lol.

Bladerunner - 12-11-2016 at 08:35 PM

As crazy at it sounds 5mph is just too little wind for your 10m to fly " properly " . It won't want to fly itself and stick to the edge of the window until the winds are a good 9mph+. Less than that and you will have to force it to fly, Sort of an acquired skill.

You can't judge the Outlaw until you have flown it in the winds it is designed for.

I find myself wondering if you had a harness and were hooked in?

Do yourself a favour and forget about the term " depower " ! ( it will make more sense once you get in motion and well powered up but only confuse you for now.) Try and get your head around Front / Fly lines and Back / brake lines. Just like your Crossfire.

When you want your Crossfire to fly fast through the window you do it on the front lines. Leaving the brakes loose. When you get to the edge and want to assist the kites turn you add brake and brake turn. You want to accomplish to same thing with the bar. When the bar is out you are flying on the front lines. The kite will fly fast through the window and create it's own apparent wind. Before you get to the edge of the window you need to pull the bar in adding tension to the brake lines and influencing your turn. Avoid jerking the bar in and out! That only confuses the kite. Instead , just like with flying the Crossfire start your moves early enough that you can do them without over steering. Everything will be slower and take longer than with the 5m.

1st thing you want to do is get familiar with releasing and resetting the safety!!!! You can do that in 5mph winds but trying to fly in such low wind will be a struggle.

It is definitely easier and quicker to pick up flying with a FB but once you get on top of it depower has a whole other batch of rewards. Especially for stand up riding!

We all fully understand how scary it will be to launch twice as big a kite as your used to in strong winds for that kite and it being a GOOD idea!
If you can find the nerve to do so I am sure you will be rewarded. I would suggest that if the wind is strong enough that your Crossfire is pulling like a beast but still controllable to be the IDEAL wind speed for your 10m Outlaw! Crazy but true! And I am safety minded!

A few of tips for handling low wind with depower:

Reach up and tug the front lines to launch or influence some speed into the kite.

Reach up and grab extra brake line to influence a faster turn.

Trim strap almost all the way in . It helps you fly faster to create apparent wind .

Launch with trim strap in. If kite will sit at zenith then open strap a bit at a time. If you can stall the kite by pulling the bar in but not have it back down completely, you are set!

gemini6kl - 12-11-2016 at 09:10 PM

Being pulled on a board of buggy is different to static flying because u needa decent amount of power which u can only get in good wind. I think most depower kites need 5 or 6 knts as a minimum to stay up in the air which is probally 7 or 8mph+ so thats your minimum starting point I would say . Keep on practicing with the depower kite and soon ull get a feel for it. I hope u have atleast practiced moving on the board with the fixed bridle kite because a depower would not be the best way to start learning on the board or buggy .



Quote: Originally posted by adambweird  
My Crossfire flys great in a 5mph wind, granted thats static, but flys great none the less. Ive had that thing flying in next to nothing, took LOTS of movement though the window though. Flying depower is waaaay beyond different to me, lol. I was hoping that with it being larger i could work on learning how it flys in some lighter wind while being static.

adambweird - 12-11-2016 at 09:13 PM

Thanks for the advise Bladerunner! I was hooked in, it took me a lil bit to get used to the harness taking the pull instead of my arms, lol. Thanks for the explaination of how things work with a depower, things make a bit more sense to me now. Certainly explains some of the behaviour i was seeing. It was flying ok with the bar out, almost no steering ability whatsoever and seemed to want to auto zenith/overfly, but was staying in the air and inflated. To see me trying to fly it, you guys woulda thought i was drunk with how it was flying, especially when i tripped over a hole it the ground while launching it the one time, lol.

Bladerunner - 13-11-2016 at 12:42 PM

Yup. That term depower can create nothing but confusion to a beginner. Especially static in low wind.

Stick with what you know from your 4 line experience with the Crossfire. You want to fly on the front lines and add brake input to slow the kite and influence turns. The BIG difference with depower is that your front ( center ) lines aren't involved in actually turning the kite like you can do on handles. Instead you are doing brake turns by how you use the bar. If you are trying to turn with the bar out your bar won't have much influence on the back lines so super sloppy. As you bring the bar in you are adding a bit of tension to the back lines. If everything is perfect that influence should be ideal with the bar at mid-trim.

As mentioned. Slapping your bar from one end to the other is like hammering on the brakes and releasing. Your kite will only get confused. You want to start moves early and smooth. Waiting that 1/2 second for it all to be translated to the kite.

While Gemini is correct that getting used to motion using your Crossfire will be safer I didn't have my breakthrough to actual riding on ATB until I did it hooked in to a big depower kite.

A had basically no board skills but had lot's of kite time on the buggy, blades and skis. Trying to ride with my 4.5 and 7m Bullets I kept getting yanked over the top. I wasn't pointing the board down wind enough and had to dive the kites hard. The power coming on to outstretched arms just wasn't working. When I stood on the board with my Psycho II powered up I only had to dip the kite in my direction of travel and was off. The pull was gentle and to my core. The fact I wasn't pointed very much downwind wasn't as big an issue. It's important to note that I was comfortable with my kites doing this. Learning one skill at a time is considerably less frustrating.

adambweird - 2-4-2017 at 04:46 PM

I finally had a good opportunity with some steady wind in the 8-12 mph range today and tossed up the Outlaw, did MUCH better with it today. Had it flying for about an hour, still static, didnt have room to take the board as we were in the wifes car, lol. Gonna take some more static sessions with it to get used to flying it (i know, its better to be in motion with it, but this is how i roll so to speak, lol). Was able to bust some decent figure 8's and get a good reverse launch going. I finally got the manual downloaded too so i could get kite specific info.

shehatesmyhobbies - 2-4-2017 at 05:40 PM

The outlaws really are good kites, see them at WBB all the time. Great for bugging as well and really build good speed while moving. Know several people that have flown many many miles with them

B-Roc - 2-4-2017 at 07:09 PM

^Agreed. I enjoyed the 10m outlaw. It's bridling is very similar to the Eskimo III series though the profile is different. Fun kite in the right conditions.

Bladerunner - 3-4-2017 at 05:13 PM

NICE.

8 to 10 is still the very bottom end for that kite. As backward as it sounds you will find flying it trimmed about 80% in will work better in those bottom end winds.

You want to speed through the window on the front lines ( bar out ) and then pull in to slow the kite and add influence to turning.

Hopefully by now you are seeing that your 5m Crossfire and 10m Outlaw are 2 different animals. You will soon feel comfortable flying the 10 in winds that you will think are too much for the crossfire.

adambweird - 4-4-2017 at 02:37 PM

Thats about how i was flying it, trim wise. I think my biggest problem with getting used to it is the delay in the kites response to steering input. All my other kites respond instantly, theyre also all fixed bridle, lol. Ill get it in time.

Bladerunner - 4-4-2017 at 03:38 PM

Personally I like the delay. It takes some adjustment to start a move ahead of time but it also allows me to hit the back button and cancel a stupid move. It gives a 1/2 second to react if the kite starts to do something you didn't expect. The Crossfire will make you pay for a mistake quicker than you can react to it.

I am very sure you will have a better time learning the board with the Outlaw in about 12mph winds?

adambweird - 4-4-2017 at 04:02 PM

Ive been using my NS3 4m on short lines for the board lately, got spanked with full length lines and prolonged gust, lol. The winds been pretty all over the place lately, most days its changing hour by hour. Was glad i got the time in that i did with the outlaw.

Bladerunner - 4-4-2017 at 04:48 PM

You can also fly your Pepper and Crossfire on shorter lines to tame them down a bit.

As you have discovered, shorter lines make for a smaller window and your kite gets out of the power zone faster. It applies but to a lesser degree with your Outlaw. With it, extensions would add a bit to your bottom end. A very worthwhile thing to try down the road!

adambweird - 4-4-2017 at 05:26 PM

I believe putting extensions on the Outlaw is VERY down the road, lol. I was hoping to use it over the winter and knock the dust off my snowboard, but we didnt get but maybe 20" the whole season this year... was bummed to say the least!