Power Kite Forum

How to properly value a kite

SSI_Stefan - 17-12-2016 at 07:19 PM

Hello everyone, I was just wondering how to properly value a kite, and how does the price change over the years, because it looks to me that even very old kites float around 200$ and don't get much below that. Do you have any secrets such as a percentage of original MSRP, any tips are appreciated thanks!.

Randy - 18-12-2016 at 06:10 AM

You could look on ebay (or the old posts in the For Sale forum) and see what various kinds and vintages of kites are going for.

B-Roc - 18-12-2016 at 06:56 AM

Former sales are great indication of future sales. That's one of the main reasons why I have suggested for years that after people sell their kite they don't delete the asking price on this forum regardless whether or not they negotiated a lower price. Some comply, some don't. It's a lot easier to understand what the market may pay if you know what they were asked to pay in the past. Either way, the value of a kite drops by nearly half, the moment it has been flown by someone else, in my opinion. It then appreciates or depreciates from there based on the reputation of the previous owner, the availability and desirability of the kite, and any damage it may have sustained.

Windstruck - 18-12-2016 at 07:19 AM

Highly, highly dependent of course on all factors well described by FlyGin (?). I've moved a fair amount of kites through my quiver here on PKF. My basic formula is as follows:

Minty fresh or never flown: 66% MSRP. Sad but true.

Gently flown but definitely used: 50% MSRP

Used and not so desirable (think B-K LS1): whatever I can get selling them for scrap with full disclosure.

I tend to price for quick sale and ask for buyer to pick up shipping. I have a UPS account and ship everything UPS Ground for simplicity and easy label printing. I disclose everything I know about a kite with pictures of any issues, repairs, etc. My prices are probably a bit low but I factor in my impatience with things sitting stale and the fact that I got great enjoyment out of the kite while I owned it, sort of like "rent" money filling in the gap between purchase price and sale price.

My basic style is "price to sell" and then not negotiate. If a seller walks with me holding the line with a fairly priced item I'll just keep it posted. If nobody else buys I know I've overpriced and I'll reduce a modest, but noticeable amount. Sometimes the original pursuer comes back!

Everybody's style is different, just like the motivation of us as buyers! I've seen folks try and sell gear in great shape for about 3/4 original and not get any action, so that seems too high.

skimtwashington - 18-12-2016 at 07:32 AM

Are you trying to value the kite as a SELLER or a BUYER...?

Sellers and Buyers may have very different idea of value and what they expect, want to spend or receive.

It's always supply and demand...in the end. A different market-like overseas- will have different values for same stuff...

I've picked up used kites for much less than $200..

Feyd - 20-12-2016 at 11:12 AM

Value of a kite is a moving target. Some kites hold their value better than others on the used market due in part to demand for the given type of kite. While others like race kites and certain closed cell foils are harder to sell because of sloppy distribution channels. Team Riders dumping kites after just a couple races and "dealers" who don't worry about margins and have other income that they get to play at being a "contact me for pricing" dealer are all too willing to devalue the product in order to make a sale. Even if you are the best person in the world to showcase what the product can do, if you give it away you are showing that the product has little real worth. Nobody wins when you give away the store except the consumer and even then, it is only temporary as qualified dealers who can offer real support and experience drop off the map.

Some kites just have no following. Arcs here used to hold their value but now the technology has been surpassed. They were way ahead of the curve (look at the F-Arc for example) but others have caught up. That said, they seem to hold value better in Europe. But here, they became super expensive and then became in many ways obsolete. Is Peter Lynn going to continue with the Charger 2 much longer? Is there a 3 on the horizon? Based on what you see in their ads and website stuff, it looks sadly doubtful. There is a 13m Venom 2 RTf in the sale section for less than $400. An old kite at this point for sure but worth every bit of $400 if it's in decent shape. I'm selling a Rapace Condor 12m nearly brand new. Practically giving it away. But nobody here cares about Rapace (myself included a little bit) Even though it's a good kite made of UL material and nearly brand new. I think it's probably an awesome kite, but I don't have a use for it and if it's a kite people aren't familiar with, it's dead inventory.

Value to the seller also depends on how fast you want it gone. Again like my Rapace. I just want it gone. But as I type this and remember that I listed it here I feel it would be best sold on Ebay where there is a greater chance of a random shopper snapping it up.

To take it s tep further, look at Pansh. (sp?) Those kites are sold for near nothing brand new. Used market as a result, unless you basically want to give the kite away for a couple bucks and shipping, they have no second hand value.

But in the end none of this means the kites themselves don't have some sort of intrinsic value. Any kite is better than no kite IMO and for my part I want to fly as many different kites as I can before I die. They all have their place in one way or another.

I'd like to add that I agree with B-Roc. Leaving the price on closed selling threads would be pretty handy.

slapbasswoody - 20-12-2016 at 04:26 PM

Agreed, 50% of the MRP is a pretty good starting point for used equipment.
Sometimes it can be more and sometimes less depending on the amount of use and desirebility.

br44 - 30-12-2016 at 08:33 PM

The value of a kite comes more from the sessions that it makes possible, rather than the amount of money it was traded for. In this view, very expensive kites can have low value (rarely used).

To "properly" value a kite, imagine a 1-hour session. How much is that worth to you? An estimate may be obtained by comparison with other things you like that cost money, such as concert tickets, restaurant meals, whatever. Once you have a figure, multiply by the number (and maybe duration) of sessions that you expect to have in a year.

Depending on your personal estimate of a 1-hour session, and their frequency, you may find that some kites are much cheaper than they appear at first sight.

soliver - 30-12-2016 at 09:09 PM

I've sold a fair amount of kites here as well too, and agree that 50% of the MSRP is a pretty good starting point.... I've done more in 1 situation where a certain kite a a cool history of ownership IMHO, and I think that worked in my favor.

A lot of it also depends on what's available in the new market, how it compares with the previous models, and how is it priced comparatively. Think Reactor 2 vs Reactor 3... very similar IMO, with the used market at 50%... that's a steal!

Bladerunner - 31-12-2016 at 01:53 PM

At the point I hit 20 kites and my work situation changed I decided to take some time off of buying and selling.

Funny thing is happening. The kites I own and still use in regular rotation have all dropped in value to the point that they are worth way more to me than they are on the market. Arcs have gone from being a bargain due to the small market of users to being dirt cheap. I to wonder if PL will even continue to develop the line?

Personally I think Flysurfers are the best bang for buck on the used market. People pay heavy on the top end to buy a kite that is designed to add many years of reliable use. They still seem to drop in value at the same rate as other brands.

I don't get out as often anymore and it can be a month between sessions at times. I take reasonable care of my gear. To my surprise I am discovering is that sticking with my regular rotation of kites is a huge advantage. We immidiately connect. I am still discovering how to get more out of the kites I have.

The lesson I learned is: don't go chasing the newest model of kite. Keep the kites you have for a while and discover what they really can do.

I agree with the 50% rule of thumb but also agree it can be subjective. Supply and demand and all.

The new Twin Skin craze has me interested in spending money again. It will become a very interesting used market. Lots of development and yet a small interest, I suspect they will become a great deal second hand soon? Saving up for my used Peak or LongStar 2 soon! :thumbup:

soliver - 31-12-2016 at 04:56 PM

Twin skin, BR?... assuming you mean single skin since you referenced Peak and Long star...

Interesting and completely unrelated factoid for those who love trivia: Etymology of the phrase "rule of thumb" ... historically, in England a man could beat his wife with a stick so long as it wasn't bigger around in diameter than his thumb... hence "rule of thumb" ... not sure if that is true or not, but I heard it or read it somewhere.

You may now carry on with the regularly scheduled discussion of kite sales :lol:

Feyd - 31-12-2016 at 05:11 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
At the point I hit 20 kites and my work situation changed I decided to take some time off


The first step in recovery is recognizing you have a problem. :-)

Feyd - 31-12-2016 at 05:14 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd  
Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
At the point I hit 20 kites and my work situation changed I decided to take some time off


The first step in recovery is recognizing you have a problem. :-)


"Twin Skin" covers any dual skin kite design but Peter Lynn Kiteboarding's marketing adopted the term and put in into heavy use to describe Arcs. They even say "twin skin technology" on the wingtips. It's more or less a nothing statement but at then same time many of us started referring to them as "twin skins"

Bladerunner - 1-1-2017 at 03:46 PM

Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
Twin skin, BR?... assuming you mean single skin since you referenced Peak and Long star...
:lol:


Oops, I meant Single Skin.

Yes, I saw I had a " problem " with kite hoarding.
My problem was that the job wasn't bringing in enough cash that I could continue to feed the kite shed. ;)

How about repaired kites? How do people expect a repaired kite to be valued? So many variables. A quality shop repair to a simple sail tape job?

ssayre - 1-1-2017 at 04:33 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner  
Quote: Originally posted by soliver  
Twin skin, BR?... assuming you mean single skin since you referenced Peak and Long star...
:lol:


Oops, I meant Single Skin.

Yes, I saw I had a " problem " with kite hoarding.
My problem was that the job wasn't bringing in enough cash that I could continue to feed the kite shed. ;)

How about repaired kites? How do people expect a repaired kite to be valued? So many variables. A quality shop repair to a simple sail tape job?


If I was confident the repair was done well before I purchased the kite then it would detract very little from the value of the kite. In fact, there are certain circumstances where a repair can be better then original. So just depends on the kite and repair for me.

Feyd - 1-1-2017 at 05:29 PM

For myself, I'm on the other end of the spectrum. I wary of repaired kites depending on what the circumstance of the injury and who did the repair. I see people do stuff to kites that just makes me shake my head. If the repair was the result of negligence, or recklessness, I will avoid it all together.

If not, I will take extra of for the rare repaired kite I sell. And would expect to pay less fora repaired kite.