Power Kite Forum

first de-power

lonie1992 - 16-1-2017 at 01:33 PM

hi all, bnew to the forum ive been flying fixed bridle for some time and probably mhave about 20 hours under my belt split between my 3 and 4m fixed bridle i now want to get into landboarding and maybe some kite surfing when the weather warms up,so ive done some researching and what ive come up with is i need about a 12m twinskin arc or somthing as these are supposedly easier to learn on? with the auto zenith and such what worrys me is although im 14 stone and a fairly big guy 12m seems like a lot of kite to say i can hardly hold my 4m down above 20mph, or is it that a depower kite has no pull at allwhen the bar is all the way out so you can choose to only use the first 1/4 of the bars travel and thus a quarter of the kites power? sorry if these seem like stupid observations but i have never touched a depower before the closest i have had was a 4 line bar i used to use on my fb kites that was great until it broke.

so in summary am i right in thinking i need a 12m depower or could i get away with like a 10 or 9m? i fly mostly static at the minute with a little jumping ( although its more like falling with the 3m with how hard it puts you down) but am about to take the plunge on a board before i get my first depower.
so any advice for a depower noob?

thanks
lep

ssayre - 16-1-2017 at 02:10 PM

IMO a good first depower with a broad range would be the following. Without going into detail, different types of depowers will produce varying amounts of power for the same size due in part to ther differing projected area per size.

Open cell depower: 8m (good for land)
single skin flysurfer peak: 6m (good for land)
Peter Lynn arcs: 12-13m sizes (land, water if experienced)
flysurfer speeds: not sure, haven't flown one but would guess somewhere between 8-12m to start

I don't kite surf, but if I did or was going to, I would get an lei. relaunch will be easier. Also lessons would be in order before you hit water.

Depower is very different than fixed bridles and the sizes do not relate.

gemini6kl - 16-1-2017 at 02:45 PM

A 8 or 9m is a good start for a depower kite . all kites have a windrange and beyond that the kite is very hard to manage or hold onto. who saids a depower kite dosent have power when depowered lol. that was a funny one. a 4m fixed bridel is probally equalivent to a 7m depower kite . you can choose something with low lift like a Ozone access or HQ apex for your first kite or something more edgy like a frenzy or flysurfer speed but be warned the lift and power will be much greater than the kites u have now.

Windstruck - 16-1-2017 at 03:12 PM

Quote: Originally posted by lonie1992  
...any advice for a depower noob?

thanks
lep


Welcome to PKF. Glad to have you aboard. As others have said, the size thing with DPs really don't translate all that well to FB or even across different styles of DPs due to the so-called "projected area".

One thing I will say is that you may be challenged to get the same kites to work well in both land and water. There are some inflated twin skins that will do the job, but most folks I've come across that do both tend to use different kites.

Even if I wasn't selling them right now, I'd still be steering you towards the Ozone Access and Flysurfer Peaks. Both great and reliable DP kites. Simple to operate and unlikely to provide Code Brown moments as you get the hang of things. Depending on your budget you may really enjoy picking up a couple of my used Peak2s. If building a quiver I'd recommend the 6m and 12m combo.

Good luck, please wear a helmet, and have fun!

lonie1992 - 16-1-2017 at 03:38 PM

hey all

thanks for the advice so im looking for somthing closer to 10m then budget wise ill probably bee looking around the 300 mark i am uk based but i live on the coast litterally 5 mimnute walk from the beach wind her is generally 10/15 mph with gusts 5mph higher on a normal day.

ill be focusing on land mainly so i dont need an lei i dont think however if thats what i end up with then so be it haha there is a 12m pansh blaze tha keeps popping up on my ebay for a fair price, would that be any good or is it too big?

thanks leo

Bladerunner - 16-1-2017 at 07:06 PM

You have found a good place to ask questions.

Pansh kites are a discount brand and very hard to re-sell. THAT is why the Blaze you see is so cheap. The Blaze is a 4 line Fixed Bridle. The Blaze 2 is a depower. I suggest you avoid Pansh all together for now.

I am getting mixed messages about the water thing?

For 10 - 15mph gusting to 20 You have the right idea thinking a 9 - 10m foil or LEI will be about right. A 12 - 15m arc. Arcs do not have bridles so take on a strong ARC shape. This reduces the " projected area " or amount of sail that effectively catches the wind. Foil and LEI take on more of a bow shape with the support of bridles or struts. Leaving more sail open to the wind.

It sounds like your goal is to eventually jump. If this is the case you will want to shop for a " higher aspect " kite. The higher the aspect the longer and skinnier a kite is. As aspect ratio goes up so does the speed of the kite. Speed = Power. Power can be translated to lift. The kite also becomes less stable and more technical to fly. You may want to stay away from low lift kites that are usually suggested and RESPECT a higher lift kite ???? Don't even consider trying to jump with it or any kite until you can fly, redirect and stabilize the kite without ever looking at it !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Personally I think the best deals out there at the moment are Flysurfer and Peter Lynn Twin Skin arcs. Both are closed cell. They will work on water but are far from ideal for learning on water. When you go to water, after you have had lessons you may want to buy an LEI. You will need a bigger kite for those same winds on water anyway.

For Flysurfer look for Psycho 3, Speed 3 or newer. Both are advanced kites so ..... careful !!!

For arcs look for Venom's, Synergy's, Charger or Phantom 2's. As you have been told arcs have the unique quality of auto zenith. It is great but very new kites drift so little it isn't " all of that " anymore. Similarly, they have great gust munching qualities but very new kites do also. Arcs are losing their following and so can be found at some real great deals. They may get less and less easy to re-sell?

Other brands to look for are Ozone and HQ.

My best advice is Don't Impulse Buy . That said truly good deals don't last long. Have an idea of what you want to shop for. If you think you found it send a message asking questions about condition etc. and expressing interest to buy time. Before you close the deal check on here and get confirmation that it is a good deal.


acampbell - 17-1-2017 at 05:28 AM

Ah, once again Bladerunner weighs in with depth of experience that compliments his wisdom. Now Ken, what do we do about...

acampbell - 17-1-2017 at 09:49 AM

Ah, once again Bladerunner weighs in with depth of experience that compliments his wisdom. Now Ken, what do we do about...

lonie1992 - 20-1-2017 at 02:31 PM

Hi all, I've come across a north Vegas 14m for sale for under 100 pounds would this suit me as a light wind kite to get me started or is it just to big for a beginner, also it does not include a bar and lines are those kite specific or can I buy any one?

Thanks
Leo

ikemiester - 20-1-2017 at 08:29 PM

Hey Ionie, welcome to the forum. I'll start with this: a 14m kite may be a bit big to start on. You way less than a stone more than me, and a 14m has the capacity to mess you up a bit if you're not careful, but then again so can anything in the right amount of wind. If you're unable to be convinced to drop down in size a bit because of the price (been there... done that, not particularly smart) here's what I have to say about the vegas.

The vegas is a higher performance kite that has changed a lot (it came out in 06 or 07 I believe) through the years as the sport has changed. Safety has vastly improved in that time, as has North's quality in general. That said, what year is it? Does it have repairs? Can you go and see it? Can you show us a link?

I will say that that I jumped from a 5m fixed bridle to a 12m frenzy back in the day when I weighed 30lbs less. However, I could already fly the 5m fairly well with a board and was jumping, and I realllllllly respected the 12m for the monster it was.

A standard set of bar and lines from any company should work with it, but I am a big advocate in getting a newish nicer set of lines. This is because you will be able to use the same set of lines for multiple kites for multiple years. There's also the fact that something 1mm thin can be holding you up in the air. Quality=worth it when it comes to lines.

Best of luck, and let us know how it goes! There's a kick ass venom II in the for sale section (not mine) for a great price that you may want to consider, although I can't comment on shipping across the pond.

Bladerunner - 21-1-2017 at 02:12 PM

This is a great example of the type of kite to ask about!

Like Ike said, Vegas changed a LOT and has been out for a long time. Newer is better and old ones are cheap for a reason.

14m Is too much.

You WILL crash the kite a lot learning. LEI don't take to crashing and re-launching on land. Popping bladders and tears are usually a session killer with LEI. Often you can repair a foil in the field with just sail tape.

My vote: Keep shopping. Listen to Ike. He started out with similar goals and a tight budget.

lonie1992 - 21-1-2017 at 03:08 PM

thanks for all the advice, kinda had a bad day today went out and the conditiions were perfect for some fun with the 4m, but after spending 10 minutes setting it all up as soon as it launched i heard a ping and the kite spun messily to the ground, my power line had snapped right at the bridle attachment loop fraying and unraveling the line, so im currently kiteless as i have no spare lines and these arent worth fixing to me its about time i replaced them anyway (came to me used seeing better days 2 years ago) im kinda bummed out as this week was meant to be good wind all week but i suppose that life eh?

so ive left the vegas taking you guyses advice so ill try and stay away from lei for land (i can see punctures being a problem) ill keep shopping around new things come up for sale every day theres bound to be a bargin to be had shortly

thanks
leo

Blitzhound - 21-1-2017 at 08:39 PM

I'm gonna throw my two cents in for what it's worth. I have FB's, and DP's Arcs, foils, and LEI's I'm not as experienced as a lot of the guys here but if you were to ask me. What your first DP should be. I'd probably steer you towards one of these nice arcs floating around on the forums. Why you ask? They're relatively cheap they're super stable. And even though they're old they can still be Pretty safe kites to fly and learn on. Of all the kites I have my absolute favorite is my 15m Phantom. I still enjoy the foils but they're a whole different animal from Arcs in my opinion. Not in a bad way just in there flying and handling characteristics. They all have a different feel to them. Every single kite I own seems to have its own personality. Find yourself a nice Venom II, of a synergy, or even a newer generation Phantom. You won't regret it. Hell... if you buy an Arc and you later regret it. I'll buy it from you for whatever you paid for it. Well...that's all I have to say about that.

Bladerunner - 22-1-2017 at 09:56 AM

This kite is such a good deal I suggest you look into what shipping would be? Don't forget you will pay shipping even if you buy overseas. So consider the difference in shipping from the U.S. and what you would pay local rather than the complete bill. Kamikuzi seems to have found deals on here even including shipping to Japan.
It may cost a bit more to ship it but this RTF setup would likely sell for around the equivalent of $350? Trusted seller who will work with you.

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=33027.

Venom 2 have enough of a following that if the kite isn't for you, you should be able to move it on at little to no loss.

Bummer about your line set. Do you have a hobby shop / kite shop around that you can pick up some " sleeves "? If so, you can cut and re-sleeve that set. Handy to have some in your tool kit ( along with some sail tape, needle and thread ) going forward. If you had a sleeve kit you could have done a quickie repair and kept flying.

ikemiester - 23-1-2017 at 11:20 PM

Yep, there's really no reason not to go for an arc at your stage. They're easy to learn on, and once you understand them, you can fly pretty much anything else in the DP world. And for your sake, they're cheap. There's no reason you shouldn't be able to get on in decent shape and RTF for 3-400 if not less. Keep your eyes peeled here and arcusers.net. They come up pretty regularly.

Sorry to here about the breakdown. Those who know me saw my radsail have line issues more than too many times:mad: Learning how to do some basic repairs now and some kiting knots pays bigtime in kiting AND life in general. The butterfly and fisherman's knot may be able to fix your setup if you can't pick up a sleeving set, just pay extra attention to line length. I feel like this also emphasizes what I said earlier.
Quote: Originally posted by ikemiester  


A standard set of bar and lines from any company should work with it, but I am a big advocate in getting a newish nicer set of lines. This is because you will be able to use the same set of lines for multiple kites for multiple years. There's also the fact that something 1mm thin can be holding you up in the air. Quality=worth it when it comes to lines.

The fact that my first DP (12m frenzy) came with basically new lines paid bigtime.

Demoknight - 24-1-2017 at 10:14 AM

Arcs are amazing kites. They can be tough to learn to ground handle, but so rewarding when you get them in the air. I love my Charger 2 and will probably never let it go. It is my high wind kite, and I had some big jumping breakthroughs on that kite. It is the first kite that lifted me high enough to need to know about redirects. It also happens to be my favorite safari kite for the buggy because of how quickly it turns and goes upwind and downwind equally well. It is such a pleasure to have over my head when I am navigating really complicated terrain in the buggy such as Driftwood Beach on Jekyll.

Blitzhound - 24-1-2017 at 04:04 PM

In fact I have a 16m Venom I'd be willing to part with. I don't have a bar or lines to part with I fly this kite on a newer large PL Navigator TS bar. Very nice very safe setup. It's a nice kite and bag. I'd be happy to ship anywhere you want. Let's say $200 U.S.D. Plus shipping here is a pic of it. It's the big one in the middle. If you're interested U2U me.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0By4I64fs2jEOSENVa2ZZb2VSNm...