Chrono v2

Quote: Originally posted by gemini6kl

15m is probally just enough power in 10mph . I would prefer the 18m .

Up until recently, the Montana 14m was the largest kite I had, and I made that work down to around 6mph. Obviously not ideal, but workable. I guess I'd rather fill out the range about the 12m Summit and not necessarily be "only" a lightwind kite. Going by the ozone chart (i know i know) the 18m Chrono is maxed out at 10kts, while the 15m has a much broader range.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

"Hi, my name is Bill and I'm a kite addict." :moon: Makes sense to me to sell whole quivers of kites to buy new. Perfect sense. :evil: If he doesn't spontaneously add to this thread you might want to consider reaching out to slapbasswoody. He owns Chronos and is very knowledgeable about traction kiting being a sponsored buggy racer. He's getting his son into the sport to boot which is always a great thing.

Thanks appreciate that :D I'll reach out to Feyd also since I think he's flown the Speeds as well.

I think the only kites I'll miss out of the bunch are the Montana 14m (maybe?) and the 7.5 Apex. It's essentially brand new, looks sharp, and flies sweet.

Quote: Originally posted by slapbasswoody

Hi Bill, The 19m Speed 3 will definitely get you going in lighter winds than a 15m Chrono but as you said you are looking for a little more upwind performance which the Chrono will give. To be perfectly honest anything below 10mph and it makes for a difficult day no matter what kite you are flying. If you are kiting in 10mph winds most of the time I would suggest an 18m Chrono over the 15m but then I do like to go fast. I have had my 15m up in 10mph and it trundles along ok but for when the wind drops off a little then the 18m would be the better choice in my opinion. Good luck with your search and I hope all goes well

Thanks for weighing in. I'll post a video from this week to kind of illustrate what I'm used to. I didn't bring my wind meter, but this was maybe 6kts gusting to 10kts. I'm on the montana 14m and making it work and hit 32mph. I've got to imagine the 15m chrono would be on a whole different level once it's moving, but maybe I'm mistaken. I'm being pretty cautious, most of you guys would probably feel pretty under powered in these conditions. I'm starting to find myself wanting more as I get used to it, I just don't want to jump to the 18m chrono and find a huge gap in my quiver from a 12m summit to the 18m chrono. That's why I was hoping the 15m would blur the line a little more


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB9Zn4CNU5w

Quote: Originally posted by nate76

I think you'd find that the 18/12 makes a nice split. In my experience a 12/15 split has too much overlap. And given you're in the 200+ lb category, I think it makes a lot of sense to get a few extra meters of sail. I'm hovering right at 200lbs myself. I have access to both a 15m and 18m kite, but find myself on the 18m 90% of the time. Some of it depends on snow/ice conditions you depend to ride most. If you plan on riding a lot of boilerplate and ice lakes, then the 15 might be the better option. Otherwise, go for the 18m and really enjoy the lightwind stuff. I think you'll find by the time you find yourself overwhelmed on it in the low-mid teens, that's when the 12m Summit really starts to come alive and be fun.

Hmmm thanks nate. If you think the 18 is okay even up to 15kts maybe that really is the way to go. I was kind of thinking that by 10 I'd be thinking about a smaller kite. From what I've been reading the depower on these super high aspect kites isn't as great as something like a speed 3, is this accurate? Would the power of the 19m speed 3 be comparable to the 18m chrono?

Sure wish I could demo these kites! Dropping almost $3k without being able to try them out is tough, even for an addict like me :D

u2u sent.

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Quote: Originally posted by nate76   I think you'd find that the 18/12 makes a nice split. In my experience a 12/15 split has too much overlap. And given you're in the 200+ lb category, I think it makes a lot of sense to get a few extra meters of sail. I'm hovering right at 200lbs myself. I have access to both a 15m and 18m kite, but find myself on the 18m 90% of the time. Some of it depends on snow/ice conditions you depend to ride most. If you plan on riding a lot of boilerplate and ice lakes, then the 15 might be the better option. Otherwise, go for the 18m and really enjoy the lightwind stuff. I think you'll find by the time you find yourself overwhelmed on it in the low-mid teens, that's when the 12m Summit really starts to come alive and be fun. Hmmm thanks nate. If you think the 18 is okay even up to 15kts maybe that really is the way to go. I was kind of thinking that by 10 I'd be thinking about a smaller kite. From what I've been reading the depower on these super high aspect kites isn't as great as something like a speed 3, is this accurate? Would the power of the 19m speed 3 be comparable to the 18m chrono? Sure wish I could demo these kites! Dropping almost $3k without being able to try them out is tough, even for an addict like me :D

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Quote: Originally posted by nate76   I think you'd find that the 18/12 makes a nice split. In my experience a 12/15 split has too much overlap. And given you're in the 200+ lb category, I think it makes a lot of sense to get a few extra meters of sail. I'm hovering right at 200lbs myself. I have access to both a 15m and 18m kite, but find myself on the 18m 90% of the time. Some of it depends on snow/ice conditions you depend to ride most. If you plan on riding a lot of boilerplate and ice lakes, then the 15 might be the better option. Otherwise, go for the 18m and really enjoy the lightwind stuff. I think you'll find by the time you find yourself overwhelmed on it in the low-mid teens, that's when the 12m Summit really starts to come alive and be fun. Hmmm thanks nate. If you think the 18 is okay even up to 15kts maybe that really is the way to go. I was kind of thinking that by 10 I'd be thinking about a smaller kite. From what I've been reading the depower on these super high aspect kites isn't as great as something like a speed 3, is this accurate? Would the power of the 19m speed 3 be comparable to the 18m chrono? Sure wish I could demo these kites! Dropping almost $3k without being able to try them out is tough, even for an addict like me :D

Depower on these kites is very good. Especially if you are on a race bar. 18m Chrono V2 will outperform the 19m Speed 3. It's 2017, Speeds are no longer the light wind tool of choice. They haven't been for almost 3 years.

Also the gust handling of these new High AR has gotten to be very good.

Check your U2U.

Thanks for the advice guys, I have a Chrono v2 18m on the way :D

Quote: Originally posted by slapbasswoody

Great to hear you enjoyed your first Chrono experience. I took out mine to a local spot in Utah this weekend to see how I would fair in the snow. When I got there I thought it would be a good idea to get the 9m out seeing as I had never boarded in my life. The wind was around 10-15mph and a little gusty but not too bad. I laid the kite out ready to go and gave a little tug......................up she went. Superman............ooops forgot to let the bar out ha ha ha ha it will take me a while to get used to these De-power kites. Right then, time to get the board on..........Nope not a chance I really do need to get supple to be able to get down to my bindings. The thing with buggying is, it makes you lazy. I sat down on the board and went for a little spin. The moral of this story is to either master the board or to just bring the skis next time. At least I can do that ha ha ha. I packed the kite away in the same way as you did Bill and I am sure it will be ok. There is a bag you can buy on ebay that allows you to fold the kite in a way that keeps the LE ribs to stay as they should. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262696500044

As easy as these kites seem to be to launch, I think you'd be fine getting your board/skis strapped on before launching the kite. No more need for running around and into the wind trying to get the kite in the air :D

It would be nice if when after flying our kites the wind would drop to nothing so we could pack it way like that

Just went out again with the Chrono in 8-12mph of wind. Started out on the 12m Summit but felt under powered for the most part. Definitely not under powered on the chrono but it's going to take a while to get used to it.

The winds were gustier than normal, and the chrono really surges and pulls hard in the gusts, much much more than I'm used to. You don't have to move the bar much at all to handle the gusts, but there is definitely some grunt there.

Bar pressure is really high, I was getting a forearm workout flying the kite. Turning the kite took a lot of effort, and turn rate was really slow unless I sheeted in the bar all the way, and that really took some strength with one hand lol. Unless I kept some pressure on the opposite side of the bar, the kite wants to dive into the ground slowly. No park and ride here All my other kites I can fly with my hand in the middle of the bar, and slight corrections from there are all that is needed. On the chrono I have to keep my hand all the way at the end of the bar to keep the kite flying happy.

Naturally my gps died or turned itself off between the Summit and Chrono runs, and I only have the summit track. I really wanted to compare upwind angles with the chrono. I still feel like I'm not moving upwind that well. I see gps tracks of foil boarders on water, and they're easily tacking 90 degrees up wind. I'm not even in the same neighbor hood, maybe that's unrealistic on snow/ice, but I don't exactly have a lot of moving resistance either...

All in all, I'm really surprised how much work the Chrono is to fly when powered up. Both upper and lower body got a work out Might be a technique thing, but I almost wonder if the kite needs some trim adjustment, maybe just a little break in period will suffice.

Awesome to hear you like the big rig.

Just some thoughts.

1) don't hook in without your skis/board on if you are on a surface you can't resist the kite on.

2) don't be afraid to overbar steer. There's no rule that states that over bar is verboten and it's a technique that is really under utilized. Also with practice you'll learn to tip stall. Takes a lot of the work out of it.

3) ability to go upwind relies heavily on pilot's edging ability. If you drift the edge the VMG will suffer.

4) bend your knees, drop your hips baxk and to the side and really use your weight to cantilever against the kite.

5) That race bar has a lot of power management potential. Don't be afraid to use it.

Packing in the wind is always a treat.

"Bar pressure is really high, I was getting a forearm workout flying the kite. Turning the kite took a lot of effort, and turn rate was really slow unless I sheeted in the bar all the way, and that really took some strength with one hand lol. Unless I kept some pressure on the opposite side of the bar, the kite wants to dive into the ground slowly. No park and ride here All my other kites I can fly with my hand in the middle of the bar, and slight corrections from there are all that is needed. On the chrono I have to keep my hand all the way at the end of the bar to keep the kite flying happy.
"

Bar pressure shouldn't be unusually high. Check to make sure that there isn't a twist in your mixer. That can happen accidentally when you put the lines on. Even the 18m, I fly as you describe, hand in the center with subtle twists of my wrist to make minor corrections as needed. It is a high performance/Hight AR wing, which does require a little getting used to and if you take your hands off the bar of get lazy with flying it, it will eventually start to roll downward. As I said, don't be afraid to use the trim. You can trim it out and hang off the bar in a comfortable mid-sheet position and have it fly perfectly. Just Adjust trim to the throw you want, lock your edges and lean your weight into it. Takes very little physical effort when done correctly. (see pic) I'm not supporting my weight with that hand, I'm just skimmin' along.

Mellowness of a big kite depends on what you put into it. Big kites can be fast in light winds. They are strong in light winds as well. Depends on how much effort the pilot puts into it and how well they learn to get the every bit of performance they can out of a kite. The pilot makes the kite. But as gemini said, they make light wind days a lot of fun.

Not long ago, twice the wind speed on a kite was a pretty remarkable achievement. Now, 3-4x the windspeed is becoming common place. Especially on a kite like the Chrono V2. Sure you can throw a big kite up and cruise. But there is always the potential to get rowdy if you want. Unless it's sub 4kts. Hard to get to frisky in sub 4 but you can still get some nice moderate speed cruising in if not in high drag conditions. :D

I would agree that the Matrixx, on the surface, is relatively quick turning compared to an 18m Chrono. But if light wind performance is the goal. If getting days, good days, inconditions that most wouldn;t even consider rideable is the goal, the Matrixx 2 or 3 it don't come close to the light wind performance or power that Memo is getting a feel for. The 19m Zeekai is probably the closest thing in the HQ stable to the Chrono 18 and it still falls short on light wind performance in comparison. At least that's what we've found in side by side comparisons.

If you want quick turning and low bar pressure, then try a Nasa Star :D

They have no bar pressure of course they have no depower either:P

You can also use short or no lines. One hand or no hand flying is a breeze. Upwind may suffer a little but really doesn't matter. As long as you have wind you always will make it back.



Hopefully these tips help with flying your chrono

"Bar pressure shouldn't be unusually high. Check to make sure that there isn't a twist in your mixer. That can happen accidentally when you put the lines on. Even the 18m, I fly as you describe, hand in the center with subtle twists of my wrist to make minor corrections as needed. It is a high performance/Hight AR wing, which does require a little getting used to and if you take your hands off the bar of get lazy with flying it, it will eventually start to roll downward. As I said, don't be afraid to use the trim. You can trim it out and hang off the bar in a comfortable mid-sheet position and have it fly perfectly. Just Adjust trim to the throw you want, lock your edges and lean your weight into it. Takes very little physical effort when done correctly. (see pic) I'm not supporting my weight with that hand, I'm just skimmin' along. "

Thanks Chris I'll check the mixer closely. Hopefully it's something as stupid as me putting the lines on wrong

One other observation is that even with the depower trim all the way out (fully powered) I'm able to have the bar fully sheeted in and NOT stall the kite, even in the light winds. I was really surprised by this. I connected the rear lines in the middle position as recommended, but I think I need to check the lines on the bar and make sure they're all the same length.

It may all just boil down to me just needing more time on the kite. The only real surprise to me is the bar pressure. I'm hoping to make it to the Sturgeon Stampede in a couple of weeks, and maybe be able to fly with some more experienced kiters there


ssayre - I appreciate the utility of the Nasa Star, but holy crap they're unattractive :D

Just depends on the angle. It looks like a Romulen Warbird from the right angle :D:P


Ok, back to the regularly scheduled program.

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

If you want quick turning and low bar pressure, then try a Nasa Star :D They have no bar pressure of course they have no depower either:P You can also use short or no lines. One hand or no hand flying is a breeze. Upwind may suffer a little but really doesn't matter. As long as you have wind you always will make it back. Hopefully these tips help with flying your chrono

Hahaha well done. But, it also proves that there is always a trade off when you opt for one performance element over another.

Take a look and make sure your mixers aren't twisted. I did it once myself in a rush to get a bar on a kite and get riding. Only did one side, kite flew fine but man the turn to the left took more muscle than I wanted to give it.

And sure, there's always a learning curve when getting used to a new kite. And the kite you have is a lightwind machine! It's going to take a bit of adjustment but time in the saddle will pay off huge.

She shouldn't stall much a full sheet in. One of the complaints with the original Chrono (as well as Sonics) was heavy stall tendency. Depending on which setting you attach the lines at you can change how it responds.

Again, that whole "learning curve" thing. I takes me a few hours/sessions to really get a feel for a kite. The thing about the Chrono that I really like is that they tend to be consistent through the size range. They scale well and the 9m flies much like the 18m etc.. No surprises from one size to the next. Not many kites are like that IMO.

Quote: Originally posted by slapbasswoody

Just a little point on the Chrono V2. It is lifty...............very lifty but very controlable

I did a mini jump with it yesterday, maybe 2ft off the ground just to test the waters. Even that little jump was nice and floaty :evil:

Can't wait for more snow to cover the lake again. 2 weeks above freezing really did a number on things, basically hit the reset button and now i'm back to about 2" of snow over the ice. When there was a foot of powder I wasn't afraid to send it with the summit. Now.... not so much lol

Quote: Originally posted by Feyd

Mind you, the skis my friends and I kite on, are tuned for riding the lakes. They would be treacherous for lift access/gravity based skiing.

I'm starting to collect skis like I collect kites lol. These old things won't ever see the slopes. Some sweet late 80's K2's with matching Marker turntable bindings

I tried sharpening the edge last night but not sure it's going to work... The edge is almost flush with the side of the ski. When I set my file holder to 2 degrees, the file hits the side of the ski before it contacts the metal edge. So I'm shaving ski, not edge...

I might break down and buy some new old stock downhill racing skis on ebay. I reeeeaally need a ski for the ice and thin hardpack snow conditions. I've been using Volkl P40's and as soon as I load them up the ski wants to turn. I have awesome skis for deeper snow, but seriously lacking something that works when it's thin.

Hmmm these look fast: http://www.coloradodiscountskis.com/store/product6803.html

That would help with my paranoia about a binding release when going over iced over tire ruts at 35mph

Well the wind started under 10mph and by the time I quit I couldn't feel it anymore, perfect Chrono weather! Still managed a 35mph run. Already getting comfortable on the kite and I love it more each time I fly it. The amount of depower control in the bar alone is pretty amazing. I'll attach a picture of my gps track. Upwind tacks are kind of sloppy, but I'm definitely getting better angles than on my other kites. I'm guessing if I was more powered up I could improve on that even further.



Speaking of tacks... I've been working on actual tacks (ski tips through the wind) instead of jibe-tacks (turning downwind and then back up on the new tack). I haven't been able to maintain any speed through the tack yet, but you lose zero ground during the maneuver. Anyone else trying this?

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Well the wind started under 10mph and by the time I quit I couldn't feel it anymore, perfect Chrono weather! Still managed a 35mph run. Already getting comfortable on the kite and I love it more each time I fly it. The amount of depower control in the bar alone is pretty amazing. I'll attach a picture of my gps track. Upwind tacks are kind of sloppy, but I'm definitely getting better angles than on my other kites. I'm guessing if I was more powered up I could improve on that even further. Speaking of tacks... I've been working on actual tacks (ski tips through the wind) instead of jibe-tacks (turning downwind and then back up on the new tack). I haven't been able to maintain any speed through the tack yet, but you lose zero ground during the maneuver. Anyone else trying this?

It looks like you are really getting to grips with the Chrono.
Tacking is an important part of buggy racing when you are beating up wind.
The trick is to get as much speed as you can and bring the kite up directly above your head slowly before the turn.
Once the turn is complete you can cross the kite over and bring it back down into the wind window.
It takes some practice getting the timing right but once you have mastered you will be doing all the time.
Then comes the suicide jibe, now that is fun in a buggy. not sure what it will be like on skis. I'll let you know if I manage it

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Hmmm these look fast: http://www.coloradodiscountskis.com/store/product6803.html That would help with my paranoia about a binding release when going over iced over tire ruts at 35mph

These skis, and others like them, are IMHO ideal for this application. You are absolutely zeroing in on the right type, viz., long, straight, and skinny. DH sidecut is ideal (50m+ ish) for this application since what you want to lay down is an endless straight carve.

eBay has a ton of DH skis too, but this seems decent for price. Go for it!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad   Hmmm these look fast: http://www.coloradodiscountskis.com/store/product6803.html That would help with my paranoia about a binding release when going over iced over tire ruts at 35mph These skis, and others like them, are IMHO ideal for this application. You are absolutely zeroing in on the right type, viz., long, straight, and skinny. DH sidecut is ideal (50m+ ish) for this application since what you want to lay down is an endless straight carve. eBay has a ton of DH skis too, but this seems decent for price. Go for it!

They'll be here Tuesday, can't wait to try them out

I was going to go the ebay route, but it was becoming a hassle trying to find a good price on bindings that would work with the various older race plates that were on these DH skis. This combo takes the guess work out of it for me, and it really didn't seem like a bad price considering the bindings.

What DIN settings are you guys using for kiting? I'm not a pro level skier, but I have been skiing since I was 3 and am comfortable just about anywhere on a mountain aside from hucking off cliffs... I had the shop set my powder skis at an 8 or 9 DIN and that seems fine to me in soft snow. My question is more for the ice/hard/fast condition that these new skis will be in. I've taken some pretty hard hits with hidden ice chunks under the snow, and ejecting a ski at 40+ mph seems pretty terrifying. I also don't want to destroy my knees in a crash lol. Would a higher DIN be okay for kiting than normal slope use?

I'm 6'4 and around 230lbs.

Quote: Originally posted by nate76

Over bar steering is when you grab additional line above the bar - taking your hand off the bar itself - to help the kite turn faster. You can find examples of it in this video at the 5 sec mark, or several examples in this video (13 and 27, 38 sec marks for example) Not only does over bar steering allow you to turn the kite faster, you can also meter the amount of power the kite is producing through the turn by partially stalling one side of the kite (if you want to). It also puts a lot less strain on your wrists and is a very comfortable way of looping the kite once you get used to it - especially if you are doing multiple loops in a row for things like hill climbing.

The ozone bar system seems to be really good for this as you can use the rubber ends to yank the kite round

Quote: Originally posted by Memopad

Speaking of tacks... I've been working on actual tacks (ski tips through the wind) instead of jibe-tacks (turning downwind and then back up on the new tack). I haven't been able to maintain any speed through the tack yet, but you lose zero ground during the maneuver. Anyone else trying this?

I have been doing upwind turns on the buggy for a few years, but I haven't tried on skis. I imagine you could on ice since the resistance is pretty low. The hard part is finding the sweet spot between carrying enough speed to pull through the turn and getting lifted by the kite. It is like a slowed down pendulum jump if you are doing it right and you should feel very light, but still planted.

I needed more chrono in my life today...

Typical blowing 20mph all day till I get home from work, wind meter says it's blowing 12-13mph. In my experience, I should be well powered up on the 12m Summit at that point so that's the kite I brought out to the lake. HOWEVER there is a foot and a half of snow with a thick crust on top from freezing rain, so you break through and sink in snow but the crust offers a crap load of resistance. Like skiing through quicksand, ugh. So even though the kite was pulling fairly well I just wasn't going anywhere. Oh and naturally the wind dropped while I was out ending up around 5mph. I should've gone with the 18m chrono to start with, but I'm not used to needing that much power to get moving. The learning experiences keep piling up

Quote: Originally posted by slapbasswoody

Hi Guys, Just a quick note on the Leading edge of the Chronos. I was away on Ivanpah Dry lake last week and due to the lake bed surface being like concrete, I have worn parts of the leading edge down to the plastic batons. Not sure if it can be fixed yet, we'll see. I guess I reverse launched about 4 times and during those times the damage was done. I'm doubt very much that this will happen on snow but on Ice, I am pretty sure the same will happen if you drag the leading edge across it. I don't think it is a problem with the kite. Rather something to be aware of when reverse launching on harder stuff

My 6.0m Flysurfer Peak3 suffered a similar fate:


[img][/img]


I deployed the safety going at over 40 mph and at least once dragged the edge of the kite on the band sander that is the playa surface. Not sure when I did this. I too wonder how I'm going to fix it. I have used this service in the past and been pleased with it:

http://www.fixmykite.com/

I plan to contact them in the near future and inquire as to whether they can perform this repair, how they would propose doing it and how much it would cost. I'll let folks know what I find out.

Quote: Originally posted by slapbasswoody

Sorry to hear about your kite too Steve, Hopefully we can get them repaired

Thanks Woody! Price of admission I'm afraid for stepping onto the playa (at least with my paltry skills). I think I did this over about 1-2 seconds. I remember dropping this kite's leading edge tip onto the playa when the kite was fully inflated and I was going at least 40 mph. Pretty much like dropping it onto a belt sander!

I got it off the ground very quickly so at least it's still a 6.0m kite and not a 5.5m!

I sent you an email about the repairs.