Power Kite Forum

LEI lauch?

m00ms - 24-7-2017 at 01:08 AM

hi and apologies if this question is in wrong section!

little while ago while looking around on ebay i found a cheap LEI in the form of a flexifoil storm 9m which i think is a 2004,it was complete with lines and bar and was so cheap i thought why not.

i know its an old kite but curious to try it and have watched videos on youtube on launching LEIs.

is it possible to self launch them on grass and if flown in low wind first times can i just middle of window launch it?

thanks

Blitzhound - 24-7-2017 at 06:34 AM

With the help of a sand bag it is possible to self launch on grass in low wind. Launch it just like an Arc. If you don't know. YouTube launching an Arc. This is how I do it. There may be better ways. Someone else will have to chime in on that.

Bladerunner - 24-7-2017 at 09:25 AM

http://www.flexifoil.com/template/Manuals/Storm%20I.pdf

Here is the manual. It describes solo launch. Where you will have a HUGE issue is trying to re-launch. It was a struggle to re-lauch old 4 line kites on water. There are reasons these kites were not considered as land kites.

Solo Landing on land is also an issue.


Back then the rule was " keep them low and go " . Meaning get out on the water before taking these old kites overhead. They had tons of punch and poor safeties. If for some reason you find you like old C kites you should seriously consider adding a 5th line safety system !!!!!!!!!

Cheap old kites are almost free for a reason. Around here people honestly threw them out rather than see them end up in the wrong hands.

m00ms - 24-7-2017 at 11:32 AM

thanks il give the sand bag a try on my local field on a low wind day and see what happens!

thanks for the link bladerunner which reads same as one i found for mine which is a storm 3 which im not sure is better or worse.with landing can you not just fly it to edge of window until it losses power?

another option for it is when im down the coast and i cant buggy due to tide being in i could always fly it and see if itll launch from the water.in time i was looking to try the water side of kiting and was hoping my storm would be an cheap introduction to it.

Blitzhound - 24-7-2017 at 12:07 PM

Ghost landing is an option if you have an anchor to tie the kite off to. Cheap LEI's are fun to play with. I have had many a buggy session on an old cheap LEI.

sand flea - 24-7-2017 at 03:53 PM

It is a bad idea launching an lei in the middle of the window.
Take it to the edge,
You'll have a better day!
Safety first

Cheddarhead - 24-7-2017 at 07:24 PM

A lot of times when I launch solo on land, I will lay the kite leading edge down into the wind. Then I will attach my lines so the bar and lines are stretched out directly down wind. Everything should be hooked up upside down. Then I will walk to the bar, hook in, then simply walk the lines around in a circle until a wingtip catches some wind. Then with a little tension and wind, I can roll the kite over and launch along the wind edge. Works best if the leading edge has something to grip to turn it over. Doesn't work so well on bare ice.

I do agree with the above though. Older LEI's have inferior safety systems and much less Depower than their modern cousins.

ssayre - 25-7-2017 at 06:18 AM

04 LEI??? Probably better off cutting it up and make some single line kites or donating to a kite museum.

Blitzhound - 25-7-2017 at 08:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
04 LEI??? Probably better off cutting it up and make some single line kites or donating to a kite museum.


WOW!

m00ms - 25-7-2017 at 08:18 AM

is that wow to my LEI being 2004 (not fully sure what year flexifoil storm 3 was) or wow to harsh comment!!

Bladerunner - 25-7-2017 at 01:46 PM

Blitz.
The Storm is a C kite from a year or 2 before bow kites like the Waroos etc. that you own. They were a big leap forward at the time. Kite design improved greatly starting about 2005. I was tempted by your old bow kites but wouldn't take an 04 C kite for anything but material. I owned 2 of them in 05.

Mooms has an old C kite. They had poor depower and huge punch. Relaunch was a total PITA. Depending on your style they were a great kite or a major hazard. C kites have a following and still exist but with better safeties, depower and Relaunch.

Blitzhound - 25-7-2017 at 01:58 PM

That was a WOW to the inappropriately harsh comment. Old LEI's are perfectly fine to play with. I don't disagree that advances have been made. But these kites can be flown relatively safely. I don't have a ton of experience with LEI's but I do have a couple of old Waroo's that I have flown many times with no issues. In fact I've had a lot of fun on the 7m Bularoo. The suggestion that you'd be better off chopping them up is complete nonsense. Learn some cheap lessons. (I don't think they'll workout quite the way you had hoped. Or they might. Mine didn't. I keep them more as a novelty than anything else. Partly because I've gone to mostly FB.) Just be careful, be safe and use your noodle and try to have some fun while you're at it.

ssayre - 25-7-2017 at 09:07 PM

Blitz, my comment was not harsh at all. it's never been advised on here that an lei rookie use or fly an old c kite. Very different from your lei's. That's why they are so cheap or usually free.

no reason to immediately disadvantage yourself, especially when new. There are many very affordable lei options out there that aren't c kites.

I looked up that kite and safety system and I wouldn't fly one in anything but light wind and just for the novelty.

Blitzhound - 25-7-2017 at 10:33 PM

Ssayre. Even the OP thought it to be harsh. His words. Doesn't matter the kite. Telling someone they are better off chopping up there kite is inappropriate at best. You could have explained why this kite was not good for a beginner. You could have shared your experience with this kite (oh wait...you don't have any.) I could even see this as a possible comment if he were asking if he should buy the kite. (Don't buy this kite. It's not worth the Dacron it's made out of.) But he already owns it. Now he's asking for advice on flying and launching it. The best advice you could come up with was chop it up. Yet you base your advice only on what you have read?
You wouldn't fly it? What do you fly again? It's one thing to let someone know that what they are suggesting is unsafe and why. It's another to tell someone they are better off making purses out of there newly bought kite.

I know I know. You're thinking this is a harsh response.

Ssayre. "My comments are not harsh at all."

m00ms - 26-7-2017 at 01:30 AM

apologies that my old LEI purchase seams to of caused a storm (no pun intended!)

thanks to blitz and bladerunner for you advice and positive comments.

i did try to launch kite last night in low wind but it was too low so next time i will try little higher and see how i get on.i am curious to try it as i have it and will not do so in strong or gusty winds.i can then decide if to keep,sell or make handbags out of it :)

ssayre - 26-7-2017 at 03:54 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Blitzhound  
Ssayre. Even the OP thought it to be harsh. His words. Doesn't matter the kite. Telling someone they are better off chopping up there kite is inappropriate at best. You could have explained why this kite was not good for a beginner. You could have shared your experience with this kite (oh wait...you don't have any.) I could even see this as a possible comment if he were asking if he should buy the kite. (Don't buy this kite. It's not worth the Dacron it's made out of.) But he already owns it. Now he's asking for advice on flying and launching it. The best advice you could come up with was chop it up. Yet you base your advice only on what you have read?
You wouldn't fly it? What do you fly again? It's one thing to let someone know that what they are suggesting is unsafe and why. It's another to tell someone they are better off making purses out of there newly bought kite.

I know I know. You're thinking this is a harsh response.

Ssayre. "My comments are not harsh at all."


Blitz I don't see your comment as harsh. In fact your 100% correct. I've owned and used arcs and peaks. I currently fly a peak and fixed bridles. However, I did take the time to Google the exact kite he was referring to and look at its control systems. Did you? I know a thing or two about kites and considered it more of a harsh warning. My apologies to you. Mooms is less sensitive and I think he is managing my harshness just fine. :)

I've never been to Siberia either but I've read enough that I might need a jacket. :P

"mooms, be careful, it's a very old c kite". Is what I should have said, but it was more fun to ruffle blitz feathers.

ssayre - 26-7-2017 at 04:07 AM

My initial comment was intended to start a conversation for mooms sake which it did. If this thread causes him to proceed with caution then I'll count it as a success.

Don't take my word for it. Just read Bladerunner's comment.

Windstruck - 26-7-2017 at 04:43 AM

Jeez, I leave PKF for a couple of days for some vacation with my family and all hell breaks loose! :frog:


m00ms - 26-7-2017 at 07:50 AM

everyone on this site has been such a help to me with my kiting and buggying ssayre included that im not taking any offence to a cheeky comment about my old donkey of a kite.i wouldnt be kiting or buggying without this site.

i am just shocked at how bad a kite it is and how bad old C kites are! guessing fixed bridle got it fairly right then as i fly a couple of old flexi bullets 5.5 and 7m which i think are great but i assume there of an age as well.

Bladerunner - 26-7-2017 at 02:31 PM

I think the nastiest stuff I have seen on this forum was centered around old C kites.

Some folks truly have cut them up to keep them out of unexperienced hands. Mooms has shown he has common sense so I didn't want to say cut it up. Most manuals back then suggested you launch from or get into the water ASAP. Even the makers didn't think flying them on land was safe. Keep it low and go was the rule.

The thing I learned is that trying to go cheap and work to make inferior products work ( mostly from Pansh ) is that doing so actually slowed my progression. Similar with chasing the newest model of kite before I ever got the most out of the gear I had. I lost a TON of valuable kite time trying to make inferior products work and getting accustomed to new product.

LOTS of old kites are good ( to a degree ) The Bullets that MooMs is flying and Blitz's Waroos / Bularoos are a perfect example. Both great older kites. Models that have been improved on but are worth the money.

What I wish Mooms and others would do is ask on here if their purchase will be a good one before throwing money. We don't all always agree but a person can get a good feel for a products qualities and flaws as we argue about it. I would have and do suggest that Mooms look for old Bow kites like Waroo and Swithchblade if he wants in the LEI world at bottom dollar.

Anther big debate about old C kites : I used to say you can not reverse launch them but was proven wrong. The fact that some do reverse launch is a big deal on land. Much easier on the kite than the drift and lift method shown in the manuals.

ssayre - 26-7-2017 at 02:45 PM

.

crazyherb - 26-7-2017 at 03:00 PM

I learned landboarding on 04/05 North Rhinos - (5-line) C-Kites.

They have moments, but here's the best video on launching one that I can compare to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5XvVmf1pas

The key point is right about 1 minute into the video, to let the kite roll back on it's back a little bit and it takes some pull off and start working the upper brake line.
She'll roll on to a tip and pull to the edge of the window....be ready to FLY the kite..and slide a little if you have lots of wind...and keep it sheeted out (bar away from you).

Watch for edge of the window (back stalls) or you'll get yanked a bit too...
Otherwise, fly it like anything else and try not to BONK it.

Steve


m00ms - 27-7-2017 at 10:57 AM

thanks bladerunner as i would like to hope i have common sense.

i think i didnt ask for advice before buying as LEI side is just something i would like to try in time and the flexifoil storm was just there cheap so i just went for it.my main focus is getting better in the buggy which i am especially at coast in cleaner wind and next step is depower kite to use in the buggy.i have another thread running about depower options.

thanks for link crazyherb which i have seen before,that jake kelsike seams to have a great life as ive watched few of his videos!!

m00ms - 27-7-2017 at 11:03 AM

with regards to looking at safer LEI could i use the bar/lines from the storm or is that defeating it as the safety is on the bar/lines?

Bladerunner - 27-7-2017 at 02:36 PM

If I was to spend more money ( and I did ) trying to upgrade my old 4 line I would add a 5th line safety. I had to get a tab sewn on for the 5th on my Airush lift and my Niash Aero II had a tab already for the pump leash. Re-launching a 4 line is a PITA. It was a just big waste of money. Early versions of kites had less throw in the bar and generally less depower.

I would suggest you look for 2006 and newer Waroos, Bularoos and Swithcblades. Bow kites in general. These kites were the big leap forward and offer a greater degree of safety on land. Put your money towards a kite that will suit your needs by design rather than trying to redesign a kite or control system that doesn't work. I made that mistake and worse than money I lost all sorts of quality fly time trying to do so. It slowed my progress.

Blitzhound - 2-8-2017 at 08:29 PM

I apologize if I came of too rude. I just found the cut it up comment completely out of line IMO. Ssayre. I did read about these kites when I was looking at buying one myself because they were so cheap. I didn't buy one because of what I read. But...mooms did. I felt at this point let's give him the help he needs to make it as safe as possible. Cutting it up doesn't help at all. But again my apologies.

On another note. Like so many noobs before me. Purchased a few older LEI's because they were so cheap. I ended up buying a 3 kite quiver or Best Waroo's. I will say. I have enjoyed these kites. They are fun, they are fast, and they handle well, and they were crazy cheap. Butif you are looking into a cheap depower option. Personally I would suggest either an ARC such as a Phantom or Venom. Or a (I can't believe I'm saying this.) A Flysurfer Peak. I have only ever flown the 12m in the 2nd and 3rd version. But this is a wonderful kite in both offerings.

Windstruck - 2-8-2017 at 09:04 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Blitzhound  


(I can't believe I'm saying this.) A Flysurfer Peak.


Hah! You've got the SS fever! Hits ya like a freakin' tidal wave, don't it? :lol::lol: :moon:

Randy - 3-8-2017 at 08:58 PM

Quote: Originally posted by Blitzhound  
Quote: Originally posted by ssayre  
04 LEI??? Probably better off cutting it up and make some single line kites or donating to a kite museum.


WOW!


That's how I got started making kites. Harsh or not. Friend game me an old c-kite and I used the fabric to make kites with. Can anybody guess the brand it came from?





ssayre - 4-8-2017 at 05:40 AM

Quote: Originally posted by Blitzhound  
I apologize if I came of too rude. I just found the cut it up comment completely out of line IMO. Ssayre. I did read about these kites when I was looking at buying one myself because they were so cheap. I didn't buy one because of what I read. But...mooms did. I felt at this point let's give him the help he needs to make it as safe as possible. Cutting it up doesn't help at all. But again my apologies.

On another note. Like so many noobs before me. Purchased a few older LEI's because they were so cheap. I ended up buying a 3 kite quiver or Best Waroo's. I will say. I have enjoyed these kites. They are fun, they are fast, and they handle well, and they were crazy cheap. Butif you are looking into a cheap depower option. Personally I would suggest either an ARC such as a Phantom or Venom. Or a (I can't believe I'm saying this.) A Flysurfer Peak. I have only ever flown the 12m in the 2nd and 3rd version. But this is a wonderful kite in both offerings.


No apologies necessary. I'm estimating, sales, and customer service, and scheduling department for my company. I have at least 1 person mad at me every day and that's not including my wife. So I'm used to it. :)

Mooms also mentioned trying out water down the line. I don't kitesurf, but I would guess he would want a easy relaunch and friendly kite for learning water.

ssayre - 4-8-2017 at 09:23 AM

randy, it was you that put the idea in my head in the first place. I had remembered you mentioning before that you had made kites from old lei. So this is all your fault.

Randy - 4-8-2017 at 09:41 AM

Yeah - friend gave me an old c-kite to use the fabric and parts and started me down this road to ruin......

Bladerunner - 4-8-2017 at 10:46 AM

It was the issues around water relaunch that had me spend the money to upgrade to 5th line. Learning to relaunch an old 4 line C kite can be a huge struggle. Even once you get it down it's a PITA.

RedSky - 12-8-2017 at 10:18 AM

Quote: Originally posted by m00ms  
hi and apologies if this question is in wrong section!

little while ago while looking around on ebay i found a cheap LEI in the form of a flexifoil storm 9m which i think is a 2004,it was complete with lines and bar and was so cheap i thought why not.

i know its an old kite but curious to try it and have watched videos on youtube on launching LEIs.

is it possible to self launch them on grass and if flown in low wind first times can i just middle of window launch it?

thanks


Hey mooms,

There is a fifth line method to solo launching where you allow the kite to tip over onto its back and then walk around to the edge and carefully un-peel the kite off the ground. It take some practice. It also means fitting a 5th.
A better method especially if you're impatient like me is to simply rock it from side to side until one of the wingtips stands up. The kite must be directly downwind of you and you start with crossed lines, but get ready to be pulled! This is how I launched all my kites back in the day, except of course when it was really windy.

No real point launching in low winds tho. As counterintuitive as it sounds, you need good wind to fly safely (within the kites range). The lines need to be tight for responsive steering and quickly deployed safety systems.

Here is a crappy video from the dark ages on rocking a C kite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBHnUacMnpQ&feature=yout...

jimbocz - 13-8-2017 at 07:01 AM

Hey Red Sky,

I hope you got the package with your bag in it - thanks again for letting me borrow. I almost gave you a shout yesterday because me and mooms went to Wales for the day , but I figured it was a bit of a trek for you. We are going to Les Hemmes soon and I'll be sure to let you know when. You need to get back on the beach mate.