Power Kite Forum

buggier getting onto water!

m00ms - 8-12-2017 at 07:45 AM

hi all,

i am a buggier that wants to get onto the water next year (when water is little warmer!) and just have a few questions to ask if people dont mind helping with.i will do few lessons to begin with.

i am trying to buy various bits of kit over winter ready for next year and have just brought a crazyfly sculp 11m 2013 year that is on a sick bar of the same year as price felt good and reviews on it seamed great so hopefuly ive done ok buying it?

my weight is 98kg so looking at boards am i right in saying needs to be around 150 in length? any good beginner boards to look out for?

to go with the 11m sculp what other size kite would be recommended as my thinking would be to go larger to start with then maybe smaller than 11m once ive made some progress and go out in stronger conditions.

i come from white water kayaking so i have wet shoes,trousers,boyancy aid,helmet which i can use if needed.

any help would be most helpful.

Kamikuza - 8-12-2017 at 07:02 PM

Kite should be ok, just check that it holds air and tune the bar and lines -- that usually means making sure they are the same lengths.

Bigger board is easier, and you can keep it for light wind days. Most (all?) manufacturers have beginner or "all round" boards in their line up, just scope out one of those. 150 might be overkill, you might look at something like Flyboards Flyradical XL 144x45 for example. Width is usually more useful than length.

Choosing kite sizes will depend on your location and the kinds of winds you get. . . .

Given you can fly a kite, you can probably get by with just a few lessons. Choose somebody/place who won't waste your time and money teaching you to fly a kite :D

Randy - 9-12-2017 at 07:42 AM

Hey Mooms - please let us know of your progress. I've thought about taking up kitesurfing myself and would be interested to know how the transition from buggy to kitesurf is.

jeffnyc - 9-12-2017 at 10:36 AM

I second that... let us know how you go. Moving to water has been my plan from the start (though I won't stop land - too much fun! Hoping to snow kite today or tomorrow for the first time!). I've been doing a lot of hunting around the internets and came across a ton of Kami's posts... listen to him - he went through every iteration of big boy boards and totally knows his stuff. The biggest take away I think is width of the board. I saw lots of posts where people started on boards way too small for them and only started progressing when they got a wider one. 45 is probably great for you. I got a great deal on a Shinn King Gee (50), so I'll start on that. The thought of foiling is growing on me - thanks a lot Kami! - but I'll put that off for a bit. Rocker was the other thing to look at - I think the general idea is the flatter rocker boards are better to start with. Another piece of advice I got from multiple people was get a cheap board to start - you will probably lose it (depending on where you're kiting - I'm in ocean).
I pretty much know that I will be doing low to medium wind, and playing with light wind boards like the king gee, surfboards (maybe sup), paipo (will build a couple), mako. I have no interest in boosting huge airs and tossing my body around. So that makes narrowing what I want to look for easier, I can wait around for deals.
Your kayak gear gives you a big leg up... pretty much the same gear for kiting. Wear your helmet!

Randy - 9-12-2017 at 01:37 PM

A friend of mine was starting to kitesurf and struggled with a smaller board until he picked up one of these. Said it made all the difference.

https://progressivesports.com/manta-2d

Cheddarhead - 9-12-2017 at 06:20 PM

I'm learning water and have a Crazyfly Cruiser LW board. I'm a 100kg so I need the extra size. Works great and starts planing early. I come from a strong skiing background so learning board skills was a little difficult for me. Body position, etc all feels very foreign to me. Average summer winds in WI are fairly light so LEI kites in the 12 to 17 meter range are common. Water with a twin tip just requires more horse power than other disciplines. Rare to use anything smaller than a 10m. I took 2 professional lessons even though I had 9 years of flying experience. Everyone kept telling me water is a whole different world and I would still benefit from lessons. They were right.

jeffnyc - 9-12-2017 at 07:23 PM

I think this thread is buckling under our collective weight.

I was also keeping an eye out for Cruiser and Cruiser LW - heard they were a good starter board.

@Cheddar - do you remember anything in particular you gleaned from your lessons? Did you go through a company, or find a personal instructor? Since you had so much kite experience did they let you skip the trainer kite day? I'm assuming board and kite will be fairly easy to figure out, things like self rescue would be useful to have someone watch over...

Cheddarhead - 10-12-2017 at 10:07 AM

Quote: Originally posted by jeffnyc  
I think this thread is buckling under our collective weight.

I was also keeping an eye out for Cruiser and Cruiser LW - heard they were a good starter board.

@Cheddar - do you remember anything in particular you gleaned from your lessons? Did you go through a company, or find a personal instructor? Since you had so much kite experience did they let you skip the trainer kite day? I'm assuming board and kite will be fairly easy to figure out, things like self rescue would be useful to have someone watch over...

I knew a good instructor before I took lessons with him. We skipped all the kite handling skills. Knowing how to control the kite with one hand is essential in the water. We worked on body dragging, self rescue and board starts. All mandatory things water riding requires. It was worth every penny.

Bladerunner - 10-12-2017 at 11:03 AM

It is good that you know that transitioning to water and learning to stay upwind on a board isn't easy just because you have kite control.

I took my original 3 lessons from a local who was following IKO steps but it was before certification. It was a group session and for some reason I did very well on the 3rd day. Got up and did a turn like a natural ( I wasn't ! ) . The other guy struggled and got ALL the attention for the rest of the final lesson. Careful about looking too good in a group lesson.

IKO give you a card that marks your progression. I strict IKO instructor will HAVE TO see that you have basic kite skills. Still, if you explain your background they can push it and get you in the water and up to the level they see you at fast. At the end you get a card marking your level for the next lesson.

If possible plan some time between lessons to practice what you learned. Not so much time that you fall back. That was one of my many mistakes.

Having and keeping the IKO card is handy. When I was in Aus. I took a lesson explaining that I am really wanting to rent gear. When I showed them I had my basics they left me with a kite and board for the afternoon. I was still working on my water starts ( alone ) but they could see I wasn't wrecking their gear.

The thing I heard most in my lesson and have taken with me is " Kite 1st! " . If your let the kite get out of control everything else goes that way.

One of the best tips I got for water starts was not to be too aggressive. If a light dive of the kite does not get you up at least you still have the kite and control. Dive the kite a bit harder the next time and ... until you find the sweet spot.

Most important. Get out after lessons and build on what you learned that same season. Taking a big break will set you back.

Body dragging is a HOOT! Especially if you go for a big downwinder. Similar to scudding down the beach. Body dragging upwind takes some skills that can be found online. If you have the time and inclination to try body dragging before your lesson it will help. Even if you just work on down wind.

I wonder if your impact / floatation vest will match with your harness? For some reason helmets etc. aren't as common on water. I personally would wear protection at least during the learning phase.



m00ms - 10-12-2017 at 12:16 PM

thanks all for your tips and advice,i am currently watching a couple of boards,one is 145x42 and the other is 148x45 so fingers crossed.

hi randy and jeff and yes i will keep posted on progress although it wont be till next year when water warms up and till then im planning to read,learn and round up kites,board etc over winter and carry on with buggy.

hi bladerunner and thanks for your tips which are most helpful and will be of great help when i get out on (or in!) the water.

i see that helmets are not very common but as i have it il use it anyway as its comfortable and will keep sun off bald head at least,and im sure whilst learning il be in shallow water and doing head first dives a lot!.

ive not tried my boyancy jacket yet with harness but it should be out as its cut very short for whilst sitting in kayak and having spray deck on to seal kayak opening,its also very slimline so it wont get in my way at all.

Randy - 10-12-2017 at 04:39 PM

Regarding helmets - the rule I heard was you only need one if there is something inside worth protecting.;)

m00ms - 7-4-2018 at 08:25 AM

hi all,

just a little update as ive now got myself a crazyfly board allround 145x41 which is hopefully going to get wet very soon!

i have a wakeboard cable near me which i have just been to look at.to me the cable pull angle looks similar to kite and speed looks around what i imagine by using a kite.only differance i can see is pull will be on arms and not by a harness.

i got chatting to them and they say they have had people using kitesurf boards on the cable before and did ok and feel it would benfit me as ive never been on a board on water before.

im going to go give it a go very soon either on my board or try one of theres as surely it cant harm me to try!

has anyone else tried cable before?

jeffnyc - 7-4-2018 at 03:10 PM

There are a few kiteboarding schools that do either cable or boat tow as part of the training, particularly for folks that never been on a wakeboard or water skied before. You should definitely do it if you have the opportunity, or if you feel like you need board training. I used to cable slalom in Florida probably 30 years ago - it was a blast tearing around on a perfectly flat lake with no noise. I'd imagine you'd want to go on the slower speeds.

m00ms - 26-4-2019 at 11:57 PM

Hi all,

just thought i would do an update on getting onto the water after a failed year last year due to time ,life and conditions all being against me sadly.

At christmas i did a land based lesson landing,launching,safety etc with LEI kites which was great and made me comfortable with kite.

I did a cable wake board session last week on a wake board and apart from struggling with the snatch of the cable i managed to get up and riding full laps of the cable.

Yesterday i did a kite lesson in the water doing body drags,water launches and a little time on a board which i did manage to get up riding if only brielfy!

My next lesson is to be spent on a board but i am thinking of getting out on my own before that lesson to spend some more time body dragging and getting more familiar with power of my kites first as i think that will benefit me more before paying out for another lesson.

Im going to make it this year or at least give it a better shot than last year!!

jeffnyc - 28-4-2019 at 05:07 PM

That's awesome m00ms! Bladrunner said it all above... keep at it every chance you get. I had some great progress at the beginning last year, but life/work kept getting in the way. So further progress has been very slow. Goal this year is foil, so I see a lot of faceplates in my near future :D
If you're comfortable handling/launching/landing your kite, definitely get out there and practice between lessons.
Good luck - love to hear how it goes.

m00ms - 2-6-2019 at 12:30 PM

hey all,

just thought id give a little update,i have been out twice now on my own just to body drag and spend time with kites to get more familiar with them.

ive been finding out that you have to go bigger with kites than i first thought after first time playing safe and going small only to find kite didnt fly well and would not launch from water!!

second time out i went bigger but found out it still was not enough so i used my largest being a 13m crazyfly sculp and bingo kite flew well and would launch from water,i managed to body drag up wind and down wind (great fun!) and spent time getting used to power diving at different strengths. i was just about to go get my board when the wind dropped!! i started to pack up but when i had finished the wind came back up to which the locals said was sea breeze which i need to read up on.

i seam to be making progress in a round and about way so looking forward to next time out.

pongnut - 20-6-2019 at 02:40 PM

Way to go m00ms! The water is my next progression in this sport, as I currently have no place to fly and landboard, since getting kicked off my old reliable patch of land from one of the farmer's sons who is worried about liability :puzzled: At least I was able to get out on the frozen lake this last winter. Keep us in your progress loop, please.

ColinW - 21-6-2019 at 08:13 AM

Hey Pongnut,
Won't Napka insurance cover you?
Register your field and time as a practice event?

Maybe Morrie Williams can weigh in.
This is the contact on the back of my membership card:
Napka safety insurance officer at insurance@napka.org

m00ms - 20-7-2019 at 11:58 AM

hi pongnut thats a shame about you getting kicked off your flying spot so if you do make it too the water i would like to hear how you are get on.

some more progress from then!! about a month ago i did another lesson two hours 1-2-1 all with a board doing water starts and by the end i was knackered but managed to iron out faults and get up briefly!

getting the board on your feet whilst keeping kite at 12:00 is an art by itself and i found that i was not turning board so it was getting dragged flat after the kite dive.

i have been wakeboarding since and now have mastered the start and turning the board which will hopefully help with the kite side. i have used my kite board at the wakeboard site on the cable and am very happy and confident on it now.

tomorrow i am all set to go to the coast to go out on my own to see if i can put togther my kite lessons and wakeboarding in the hope it will!! conditions look great for the following day (currently) so i may stay down there over night so i can get much time in over two days and hopefully make some progress.