Gravityguy - 13-3-2018 at 05:42 PM
I have been really enjoying my PL Venom I lately and several of you have been singing recently about the PL Phantom I. I have not flown the Phantom or
any other arcs. So at the risk of being told something that will change my feelings about the Venom. Who has flown both? What opinions do you all have
between the two?:puzzled:
shehatesmyhobbies - 14-3-2018 at 04:00 PM
I have flown both, the venom is a great kite, pulls like a tank, especially the first series. The phantom original is and has been my choice kite for
many years. The aspect ratio is considerably higher on the Phantom. It was designed for big air, long hang time and super fast. The shape is much
different, the phantom wimg tips are much more tapered than the rest of the line up.
With that said, I feel 100% confident flying the phantom without fear of being catapulted into the air unless I want it to. The 12m though, that one
is a different animal, for whatever reason that thing will start to lift by itself in the higher end wind range for its size, but an awesome kite non
the less, you just have to respect it and its power. :D.
markite - 14-3-2018 at 10:11 PM
yup Rich has hit on some of the differences. You have to also look back at whet was happening at the time of the different generations of arcs.
Kiteboarding had started and the arcs were a great kite for self launching, landing and depower compared to early LEIs and were a lot more user
friendly in many ways but the LEIs would deliver more power at the same size. The Phantom is a higher A.R. kite and like most arcs they like to fly
fast and the phantom in particular likes to sit forward at a good angle upwind so it doesn't creep back and sit beside you having more side pull like
some other kites. The Phantoms, Venoms and a few later models are all very stable. With kiteboarding growing in leaps and bounds the majority of
riders wanted kites that would deliver more grunt power and turn faster. When kite boarding with a Phantom it was a stable kite but needed to be
really at the top end of it's range to deliver grunts power and then they are a fast kite so you had to work the kite to keep it in the wind window
and not get ahead of you - on the water you are not as fast (for most people) as you are on a buggy or on skis etc. The higher A.R. of a phantom in
lighter wind you can see the kite starts to helix and twist in the wingspan so you don't get the immediate fast turn when the kite is underpowered.
Arcs take that style of flying different from other kites. The Venom was a kite that gave that more grunt power and still trying to get the faster
turning. there were a number of mods that arc users figured out such as the shoulder wedge to bring the LE shoulders of the kite a little more forward
and then a trailing edge tuck putting pleats along the trailing edge to increase turning speed - these mods were incorporated into the design for the
Venom 2.
Many of us used arcs as an all purpose kite surfing with them, buggying and also kite skiing and kite snowboarding. As new generations came out quite
a few of us followed the "upgrade" path hoping for faster and more power and again much of this aimed toward water use so we wouldn't have to keep
working the bar so much to keep the power on especially riding in waves. After a couple of generations many buggy pilots came to realize that the
characteristics from the Phantom were a good balance of what we were looking for in a buggy as well as the graphics on the kite still stand out as a
favorite. I use different kites on the water now but will use my arcs for winter and buggying.
Later models of arcs some found some models were not quite as fast as a Phantom and then those that were fast were not as stable as the earlier
Phantom - it's tough changing characteristics in a kite because what you gain in one characteristic you loose in another. But much is personal taste
as to what you are looking for as far as speed, turning, power delivery etc. In a buggy you want the speed and stability but not necessarily the lift
or needing so much pure grunt, but surfing you need the power but not as high of speed and more want more lift ...
i think in the end there are several models that you would see out on the playa being flown by skilled pilots and we would often follow each other and
that's when you start to see the subtle differences when all pilots are riding the kites at their max potential - some turn slightly quicker, some
have initial acceleration faster, some go a few degrees higher upwind - but for most people those differences aren't that noticeable when you are just
hanging on for dear life.
In using an arc I can't emphasize enough that the kites like speed so don't choke them too much in light wind, let you kite run up some speed and then
at a certain point BANG the apparent wind and speed kicks in and power comes on and then you can pull in the bar more - work the kite like hell to
make it do what you want - Fly It Like You Stole It and it'll reward you. Overall you won't get that same tight snappy response that you get with a
fixed bridle but fly them at their upper range and you get great response and you aren't fighting the gusts you are eagerly hunting them.
I have to add to this that I really liked my Scorpions in the buggy as well. The 10m had me constantly dancing 55-60mph range on the playa. They were
really quirky when new with inflation problems on many and refusing to climb and inflate - then could be a real bastard bow tying when partially
inflated but they seemed to be way bette after a couple of years of flying and stretching them out. I have my Scorpions stored at Fiona's in Scotland
so they are retired from playa dust of Ivanpah and canadian snow to the salt air of the north sea when i get over for a visit.