Power Kite Forum

Landsegler Wheels - discussion

cheezycheese - 3-7-2018 at 10:04 AM

Now I own a set. I'd like to freshen them up a bit. New spoke nipples at the least. However, I am afraid to proceed because these things come with a bit of mystique...? What makes them able to handle the lateral load..? Are they structurally different than a motorcycle wheel...? Different materials? Is the way they are laced..? Straight spokes..etc...? To my uneducated eyes they dont look any different. I would hate to change something and compromise their integrity.

Any input from the braintrust...?

slapbasswoody - 3-7-2018 at 11:48 AM

Hi Cheester,
Reply to your post on the Bigfoot thread:
Even though the pit bike wheels are super strong it is advisable to have a camber on them due to the excessive side loads generated when kite buggying.
I am not sure of the differences but I think they are just simply more robust because of the components used.

The Landseglers are made differently, more to that of Motocross sidecar wheels and this is why they do not strictly require cambered bolts.
Saying that, I do know of Landsegler wheels that have buckled during races and speed runs, but this is not a usual thing that happens.

Hope this helps
Woody

RedSky - 3-7-2018 at 12:19 PM

I would not use them on dry grass. I've seen it happen. A strong tug from the kite will pull the bug over when stationary or at low speed resulting in injury.

bugymangp - 3-7-2018 at 02:55 PM

Back in the day I had pl speed wheels nothing more than bike spoke
Rims 16x2 1/2 I never use them didn't trust them I sold them

BeamerBob - 4-7-2018 at 07:10 AM

I think the no camber requirement is due to the straight lacing and spoke tension. If you took the wheels apart, it would be important to evenly get the spokes back to the spec tension. I think the parts aren't super special, but rather they perform well due to geometry and design.

cheezycheese - 4-7-2018 at 07:57 AM

Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  
I think the no camber requirement is due to the straight lacing and spoke tension. If you took the wheels apart, it would be important to evenly get the spokes back to the spec tension. I think the parts aren't super special, but rather they perform well due to geometry and design.


I agree with this. Looking at them, they don't appear to be made of anything different. It's the strict specs by which they are made that gives them their strength. With that in mind, I wouldn't even think of messing with them, however I noticed over the three wheels, several nipples are loose enough to turn by hand. So they definitely need to be trued. That's where the idea of new nipples popped up.

cheezycheese - 4-7-2018 at 08:00 AM

Quote: Originally posted by cheezycheese  
Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob  
I think the no camber requirement is due to the straight lacing and spoke tension. If you took the wheels apart, it would be important to evenly get the spokes back to the spec tension. I think the parts aren't super special, but rather they perform well due to geometry and design.


I agree with this. Looking at them, they don't appear to be made of anything different. It's the strict specs by which they are made that gives them their strength. With that in mind, I wouldn't even think of messing with them, however I noticed over the three wheels, several nipples are loose enough to turn by hand. So they definitely need to be trued. That's where the idea of new nipples popped up.

Just wanted to tap the brainpool here first. I'm sure Sam is pecking away. I'm waiting for the data sheet to appear... :D

BeamerBob - 4-7-2018 at 08:40 AM

I snugged up the spoke tension on one set of mine a few years ago. I didn't have an instrument but felt confident they were all similarly tensioned. They have been perfect since. I used a hoop shaped spoke wrench and only tightened enough to feel firm resistance on the nipples. Usually an eighth or quarter turn did it.

skimtwashington - 4-7-2018 at 01:07 PM



I'm going on some experience with 'truing' traditional bicycle wheels with spokes...

With a bike wheel, the wheel's rim is what you want to watch as you spin it freely.

But you need a guide to do this. Usually it is done several ways. Wheel is taken off and put in a truing stand or you can keep it on bike and use the brake pads(old style..doesn't apply if disc brakes) or back stays of frame as a guide. You are watching two things:

1)side wobble- that the rim spins straight and also is equal distance away from truing stand bar on each side of wheel or equal distance away from back stays of bike frame.

2) rim rise or fall- the rim radius is equal throughout spin and has no 'hop' or up or down movement.

How?

Watch videos on youtube...too long to ever explain here..

Bicycle RIMS may be MUCH much more flexible to spoke tension than yours, but..., but I think the principals are relative.

Truing wheel is a bit of an art.

In other words don't just willy-nilly tighten spokes. SPIN THE WHEEL before and after each adjustment of a spoke.


Check some you tube videos on' truing motorcycle/bike wheels' for ideas on what to do for tuning BEFORE DOING ANY SPOKE ADJUSTMENT. Good luck!

cheezycheese - 5-7-2018 at 09:49 AM

Quote: Originally posted by skimtwashington  


I'm going on some experience with 'truing' traditional bicycle wheels with spokes...

With a bike wheel, the wheel's rim is what you want to watch as you spin it freely.

But you need a guide to do this. Usually it is done several ways. Wheel is taken off and put in a truing stand or you can keep it on bike and use the brake pads(old style..doesn't apply if disc brakes) or back stays of frame as a guide. You are watching two things:

1)side wobble- that the rim spins straight and also is equal distance away from truing stand bar on each side of wheel or equal distance away from back stays of bike frame.

2) rim rise or fall- the rim radius is equal throughout spin and has no 'hop' or up or down movement.

How?

Watch videos on youtube...too long to ever explain here..

Bicycle RIMS may be MUCH much more flexible to spoke tension than yours, but..., but I think the principals are relative.

Truing wheel is a bit of an art.

In other words don't just willy-nilly tighten spokes. SPIN THE WHEEL before and after each adjustment of a spoke.


Check some you tube videos on' truing motorcycle/bike wheels' for ideas on what to do for tuning BEFORE DOING ANY SPOKE ADJUSTMENT. Good luck!



Thanks Brian. Actually have access to a trueing stand(and someone who knows what they are doing) :D

BeamerBob - 5-7-2018 at 01:28 PM

I didn't mention that I did my snugging in a truing stand. I had no detectable wobble before or after. The rim acted like it was machined from billet.

skimtwashington - 6-7-2018 at 07:53 AM

Is it true?





BTW Marc, Dan D. was mentioning to be careful of debris on a beach (like a stick) that can fly up into spoked wheels. How likely is it? probably not very if beach is 'clean'. Just be aware of such kinds of debris where you ride.

(Solution? Disc wheel covers)

cheezycheese - 6-7-2018 at 09:59 AM

Have covers Brian... :thumbup: