Snake - 5-7-2018 at 05:49 PM
I'm looking upgradeing my quiver to somthing more modern than my guerillas. I like the speed and depower of my venom, but it really only shines in
it's upper windrange, but it is usually too gusty around here to fly it in that range. I am looking for something even faster with more depower and
more aggressive as I really like throwing the kite around. The original charger seems like the perfect kite for that, but everyone seems to avoid them
like the plauge.
Is the charger still a good kite? All the reviews from when it came out talk about how it is leaps and bounds ahead of older arcs and improves upon
the synergy in most aspects, but most people now days recommend a synergy instead of a charger. I know some of them had a production issue that cause
tip clap but I thought that there was a fix for that? It seems like this kite was all but just forgotten about.
I've also thought about some other kites to upgrade to other than a charger, like a peak or speed 3, but I have flown almost exclusively arcs and
their performance in my wind that gusts to 10 mph above the nominal wind speed pretty good. A peak would excel in this wind, but I'm concerned I'll
find the performance a bit lackluster. I'm not to sure about the depower on the speed 3, but they seem pretty big and slow too, not to mention they
usually go for quite a bit more than a charger.
Right now my thoughts would be to get a 9m peak 1 or 2 for low wind, a 15m charger for the mid-range, and a 10m charger for nukin' winds.
What do you guys think? Is there a better kite I missed?
Bladerunner - 5-7-2018 at 06:53 PM
I turned away from arcs and picked up Flysurfers because my Guerillas were so slow.
I got to try the Charger when it was still a prototype. I was won back and put my name in for a couple. The release was delayed and in the mean time I
was given a 15m Synergy to demo out.
I originaly got an 18 and 10 but traded the 18 for 15 right away. The 15 was pretty sweet. I did my 1st and only kite loop jump with it by accident.
It turned that fast. The 10 needed a lot of wind and then was twitchy as get out. It would hunt for zenith aggresively at rest and I had to stay right
on top of it full time.
I sold the Chargers and bought the Synergys. BUT .... I wanted the more forgiving kite. So .... If you want an aggresive arc the Charger is it.
Another rare arc you might like is the Scorpian but they don't come up much.
Ed Cline - 6-7-2018 at 03:59 AM
Bladerunner, do you think I'd be happier with a guerilla 1 13m than with my new old charger?
I only tried it briefly in too light air, and preinflated tight. It went up scary quick.
Looking over the personal note you sent I got the idea that guerilla loved autozenith and was fool proof (it never met me) so what's your public
opinion?
cheezycheese - 6-7-2018 at 04:37 AM
I don't know you Ed, but seeing 3 Peaks in your quiver, I doubt any arc gets much airtime...
Ed Cline - 6-7-2018 at 05:57 AM
Quit peaking at my quiver. Owning, and being proficient with are different things. 
Bladerunner - 6-7-2018 at 01:52 PM
I got my 18 + 13m guerillas RTF for $200 with a whole bunch of other stuff as well. I just found them too slow. + they were a true pain to fill. The
oldest arc I would suggest is Venom 2. I think Cheesey is right. That you are very likely to like your SS more?
I think you are like me and prefer a kite that is more forgiving so for you I would say the original Charger is not a great choice.
cheezycheese - 6-7-2018 at 03:48 PM
:evil:I
Blitzhound - 6-7-2018 at 04:53 PM
Sounds like you and I are similar in our flying style. Your not gonna like the Peak. It's a very stable, very predictable, very forgiving, and very
boring kite. But...they are good light wind engines. I have no experience with the charger. But I had several Venoms over the years. They were ok but
again too slow for my taste. I now have a 15m second generation Phantom that probably isn't the fastest ARC out there but it's just plan fun to fly
and throw around. Looping and swooping are a lot of fun with that kite. It's stable, quick turning (for a 15m) you can get as aggressive as your
testicular fortitude allows. You won't be disappointed... No you can't have mine.
Snake - 6-7-2018 at 11:29 PM
Ed, I agree with Bladerunner on the guerillas being a bit slow, but if you got a big bar and want a kite to park and ride then they are pretty sweet.
They also have very strong auto-zenith, something my venom could never quite do. In the buggy I actually like the 13m guerilla more than my 13m venom.
They have alot more grunt and just pull while my venom never wants to sit still. They get going pretty good too. They are my go to buggy kites.
On a landboard however, I hate them. There is a very narrow window where they are enough to start moving but not overpowering once I get going. They
go into' tractor mode after I pick up some speed and I start sliding out instead of rolling forward. My venom on the other hand has enough depower and
speed to be useable here in my gusty. Useable, but not perfect.
My F-ARC's are fantastic on a board in low wind, they don't seem to pull that much but somehow I start rolling. Once the wind pick up a bit though,
they go into tractor mode like the guerillas and I am unable to hold them down. I haven't tried them in the buggy yet, I don't feel comfortable enough
in my buggy skills, but I suspect they will be pretty good as well.
I'm guessing that the charger has way more depower than my venom making it an even better choice here with my lumpy winds, along with the more speed
and pop for land boarding. It sounds pretty perfect for what I am looking for. I have looked into newer arc's, but they are still selling for more
than I can justify.
ikemiester - 7-7-2018 at 06:28 AM
What is your current stage of progression on the landboard? I cut a lot of my chops with a synergy once upon a time. I really liked my syn, and
that's coming from someone who is very freestyle oriented on the landboard. I've also owned a couple chargers, and honestly I could get pretty much
get the same amount of airtime from either, but I felt like the syn was more predictable which is huge when your back is to the kite. Looking back,
my syn and my speed are my 2 favorite land kites. I just spend to much time on the water to have a syn. LEIs for me except for light wind days.
Bladerunner - 7-7-2018 at 10:27 PM
We have 2 very different pilots here.
I feel like Snake understands how the Charger took arcs to their most aggresive C kite like limit. At the cost of some auto zenith and general good
behaviour. It sounds like you are somebody who may appretiate that. In my experience the 15 was a sweet size. The bad behaviour being a bigger issue
the smaller you get.
I think that it truly is likely that SS will win you over and the arc will just be an itch you need to sctratc Ed. If you buy an old guerilla it will
not show you how good arcs could be and will be hard to unload. If you get a Synergy, new or old Phantom or a newer Charger you will get the best
possible impression. When it is time to move it on these will sell a bit better.
I find it interesting that Scorpians come up so rarely. They were a breakthrough design and almost as wild a child as the Charger.
Bladerunner - 7-7-2018 at 10:51 PM
ikemiester - 9-7-2018 at 05:55 AM
All I know is I'm thankful that Bladerunner once recommended I go with a Syn, and it paid. Great kite. I liked my 12m Charger, and the 15 was a bit
weird, perhaps tuned wrong. 15 is def the size you want with an arc though if you're looking to jump. 
Ed Cline - 9-7-2018 at 10:25 AM
Ikemeister,
I flew your 12m this weekend. It wants to lift me in 10mph, at zenith!
I let a kite bud try it on the board, first arc flight Granville was impressed.
I want to try it on grass before I hop with it. Thanks again for a great deal.
ikemiester - 10-7-2018 at 06:29 AM
Glad you like it. The real fun starts in the 20s with that one! Although, I do guess that I prefer flying overpowered.....