Power Kite Forum

The trick to "Scudding"

joecat - 11-5-2007 at 04:30 PM

I know that alot of you can give up details on how to "Scud". From what people have told me, its an important part of power kiting and for buggying... What are the tricks of the trade?

Bladerunner - 11-5-2007 at 06:18 PM

I think that for most of us scudding becomes more of a survival technique than the fun it is at 1st.
I suppose if there was a tip for scudding ( for fun ) it would be that you will not get enough power at the edge of the window to keep up momentum so you need to only fly near the center of the window, back and forth. It's a great phase to go through when learning. Good for kite /body control and figuring out where the power zone is.

joecat - 11-5-2007 at 07:38 PM

Hey Snowbird, so you are saying if there is not enough wind to scud, then buggying will be difficult because there is not enough power,, But you can use the center of the power zone to propel your buggy. Working it back and forth. But as far as scudding itself,,, do you lean back, dig your heals in, is there any special thing you should do or not do?

Pablo - 11-5-2007 at 10:27 PM

Smooth bottom shoes, point your toes, If you dig in your heels it'll be hard to slide. Usually if you have enough power to skudd 5-10ft, you have enough to buggy no problem. If you find that you can fly the kite low across the window and not have to lean back, then you're badly underpowered.

The problem with being underpowered is that you may be able to get some pull in the middle of the window, but this will pull you down wind. When you try and go cross wind the kite will load up and shoot to the side of the window where it will stall out or just sit there and you'll slow down. This is common for people having trouble staying upwind. If you've got enough power, once you're moving the kite will stay powered up towards the side of the window, pulling you across wind instead of down wind. Because the kite's pulling you across all the time, you don't lose that much ground, once you get it figured out you'll have an easy time making it back to your starting point as well. When your well lit or slightly overpowered it's easy to get upwind, it just sort of happens as you're trying to cut upwind to slow down or stop.

Bladerunner - 12-5-2007 at 08:48 AM

The body position will come somewhat naturaly when scudding. flat shoes + keep your toes up likes tips up on skis.
Without a ride you won't be able to use the power at the edge of the window to continue travel as you would on a buggy. You will only get dragged downwind in an s pattern. A joy to look back at the tracks ! That is why when scudding you work the power zone more and narrow your window.
To practice the feel of taking off with a buggy or board sit down, dive into the power zone and use the power to lift yourself up. Take a few running steps toward the kite as you send it overthen run like a mad man across / slightly upwind and try to keep tension on the lines by flying the kite in a sine wave as you run. This will teach you how to react to the kite as you take off a bit downwind and cut across. You won't have to think as much about it when you take the 1st ride then.
While you are down on your butt. Close your eyes and spin around . Flying blind and recovering.This will be good practice for :evil: It looks kind of foolish when practicing but so does an ambulance ride !

joecat - 12-5-2007 at 10:01 AM

good info,,, thanks,,, anymore tips would be great.

Pablo - 12-5-2007 at 09:59 PM

One thing people never do but it can teach a lot is to fly the kite sitting down.

On a buggy you don't have the option to take 3 steps backwards when you make a mistake, by flying while seated you're forced to figure out how to fly the kite without luffing/stalling it. If you fly the kite static while seated you are forced to learn proper flying technique.

If you're into ATB, then learn to fly standing without moving your feet. You'll learn how to lean back and when to ease off on the lean without getting dropped on your rear.

joecat - 13-5-2007 at 07:01 AM

See, this is good,, I never thought about that before, sitting and learning to fly that way. It makes sence, that is the position I will be in while on the buggy. What does ATB stand for?

Bladerunner - 13-5-2007 at 10:23 AM

All Terrain Board = 2 KGB ( kite ground board )

The flying blind while on your butt is more for when you land on it after and OBE ( out of buggy experience ) :P
+ a good position to practice getting pulled up and downwind ( and countering for it ) when the kite powers up.

Pablo - 13-5-2007 at 10:45 AM

Then there's days like yesterday, flat on my back, head first, 20ft downwind from the board, somehow my shoe made it another 20ft. Thanks to a helmet and padding, All I've got today is a sore neck. I know I cracked my head pretty good on the ground when I went over.

joecat - 13-5-2007 at 06:34 PM

Took all the advise, Today on the Wildwood beach. I thought it was a little too windy for "me" today before I made it to the beach. Made it to the beach and took out the Pro-foil 1.5 just for the hell of it.. The winds on the beach were only registering about 12mph. Not a good direction either but what the hell I just wanted to get some flying in and practice. Had the Big foot with me just in case. Wasn't getting a whole lot of pull from the kite but still I was able to get some good practice in for getting in and out of the buggy, sat on my butt in the sand for awhile also getting use to that. Actually got the buggy moving slowly but still moving. Then decided to brake out the Beamer 3meter. Now the winds were only about 11mph. Again got some practice in with sitting on beach then into the buggy moved along slowly for about a block then nothing. I still think it was a good day,,, practiced all the tips,, good practice getting in and out of buggy... did manage to make a turn and start moving back toward starting point.. Alittle more wind and I think I will be doing good. All in All good day>

Pablo - 13-5-2007 at 07:00 PM

Sounds like a good day out and you're starting to progress nicely. It'll take a while of not really getting it then one day it'll just click. 3m kite usually start doing really good in the 15+mph range as well.

As long as you've got some time in on the kites and can handle them fairly well, don't be afraid to start taking them out in a little more wind than your used to. If you've flown the 3m in 11mph wind this time and did good, try it in 15mph or so, anything under 20 and see how it goes.

Bladerunner - 14-5-2007 at 09:45 AM

WAY TO GO JOE !!!!! :cool2:

joecat - 14-5-2007 at 04:50 PM

Thanks,,, I will do that.. Try the 3meter in alittle higher wind.. looking for the 15 but under 20. I took the 1.5 pro foil out while waiting for my son at his soccer practice. Winds wern't that high but I was just getting some practice in with handling. Seeing how the kite reacts to certain hand movements. Quick question.. When spinning a kite,, say trying to unspin, what is the motion of the handles? If I want to spin counter clockwise say? Or clockwise?

Pablo - 14-5-2007 at 05:33 PM

So if you've got a clockwise spin in the kite with the lines twisted and you need to spin it counter clockwise, a hard pull on the left handle, commit to it and hold it until the kite's come around and starting to point across/up again. If you have a 4 line kite you can pull hard left and add some left brake to snap the kite around even faster, but usually with less power.

Of course looping a kite is always a bad idea when you're close to the top of the wind range for that kite. It's a good way to either get really powered up or spanked bad depending on your skill level.

joecat - 14-5-2007 at 05:45 PM

Thanks Pablo,, I will keep that in mind.. Of course I never spin it on purpose unless its to unwind it. I read someone elses horror story about the "Death Spin". once you get to a certain point you loose control.

Bladerunner - 14-5-2007 at 09:17 PM

An important kite move to learn for the buggy is the " downloop ". In lower winds. When your kite is at the edge of the window and you are sort of losing it you can turn the kite down and then low across the window instead of trying to turn it up and across. . Usually a better move ( in low wind ) do to the nice long power stroke you get coming out.
When doing kiteloops notice how if you do them high they aren't so intense. Lower and your in the power zone, big time ! Both good things for different purposes.

joecat - 15-5-2007 at 05:38 AM

Hey snowbird what do you mean exactly by "downloop". Sine? figure eight? So if I am traveling west, kite is at the edge of the window also going west, what would I do,,, How would it look?

Bladerunner - 15-5-2007 at 09:11 AM

For a downloop on the left pull hard on the left handle and add a bit of brake to increase the speed of the turn. The kite will turn as though heading straight for the ground. ( if you pulled right it would turn up to the sky ) If you remain commited and turn fast enough the kite will come around low and you can then fly it across the window for a big long powers stroke. When you need to do this on the buggy do to being underpowered you want to be initiating a turn to the right at the same time using the long power stroke to get moving in the other direction. When practicing it you'll see how you get power across the whole window this way. A good way to turn and ride away in low wind.

Flying in a sine wave is done when in motion. Flying the kite up and down as you go increases the kites speed so more power is generated as you stroke. If you have stronger winds sining isn't so needed because you can set your kite in one spot and it will have enough power to pull.

These are good low wind flying techniques so are helpfull at the beginning.

Figure eight is simply flying static swinging the kite back and forth in a figure eight pattern. Sort of what you do naturally .

joecat - 15-5-2007 at 10:11 AM

hey, Snowbird,, thanks,,i will give it a try next time I am out..

j55 - 23-5-2007 at 11:37 AM

only problem i have with scudding is when the ground it too hard, and i have no option to run, beginers mistake i know but its extremely difficult to resist when the ground is rock hard

BigSiler - 23-5-2007 at 07:30 PM

I went out yesterday with my 5m sami to do a little static.. Winds were 24mph.. Awesome scuds.. The wind and kite was perfect. I would scud close to a 1/4 mile then walk back to do it again and again..My legs are sore today... Took off like a rocket !!

Pablo - 23-5-2007 at 07:50 PM

Yeah, 20+mph with a 5m kite will give you a whole new appreciation of the sport.


Man I need to work less and kite more.

joecat - 23-5-2007 at 08:02 PM

Ok,,, so you start skudding,,,,,, its sounds cool,, still haven't done it.. but back to what I was saying.. you start skudding and now you want to stop,,, what are the options? Steer the kite out of the power zone? Put on the brakes? Let the kite go, with kite killers on? Or most of the time it just stops on its own?

leebrianh - 23-5-2007 at 09:32 PM

well~ you are scudding, that means the kite is in power zone. Since you (your scudding) are not as fast as the kite (unlike buggy), the kite will quickly move to side of the window, which means lost power. You will slow down and eventually stop unless you move the kite to the other side quickly.

Just follow wind and follow kite and you will be cruising on the beach no time :tumble: - Brian

BeamerBob - 24-5-2007 at 02:41 AM

Yes to all your questions. Most appropriately, you will steer out of the window instead of the more drastic bail outs. I am just learning and make zig zag trails across the sand. Each zig is a pass through the window. If the wind is stronger and you maneuver the kite to stay in the power, and you can follow the wind, you could feasibly scoot right on down the line.

joecat - 24-5-2007 at 08:35 AM

Cool!

Taper123 - 24-5-2007 at 09:23 AM

Once you get the hang of scudding... for added bonus, lift your feet up a little... do little short hops like that to get the feeling of a little air. Just don't try this if your overpowered... scudd... hop... scudd....

I like baseball infields for scudding. I can rip from home plate to second base in no time with the right wind direction and speed. Beaches are even better...

I used to have a really big ice chest lid I found. I could sit on it, and brace my feet against the front lip... dive the kite, and cruise around the field. All kinds of ways to enjoy scudding :)

joecat - 24-5-2007 at 10:05 AM

That sounds pretty cool also. I guess if your careful you can find alot of different ways to enjoy it. I diffently have to get out and get started with this. Anymore ideas or opinions would be great.

Taper123 - 24-5-2007 at 01:36 PM

Just remember, especially when learning... pads and protection are a must. Knee and wrist guards at a minimum. WIth a good set of knee pads, you can even scud a little on them :)

logantheninja - 13-1-2009 at 11:58 AM

what im doing is getting some old shoes and covering the bottom with duct tape or just go in the morning to a grass feild with moring dew:ninja:

f0rgiv3n - 13-1-2009 at 12:01 PM

:alien: lol whoa! reviving a 2 year old thread :P that's a good idea logan ;)

furbowski - 13-1-2009 at 09:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by logantheninja
what im doing is getting some old shoes and covering the bottom with duct tape or just go in the morning to a grass feild with moring dew:ninja:


one small problem -- if the grass is slick and you have duct tape on your shoes you'll get going really quick, almost as soon as you lean back. try without the duct tape at first as the transition from holding your ground and leaning back to scudding is really sudden, you'll need to be quick...

best way to scud is on loose dry sand in smooth winds, then the transition from holding / leaning back to scudding is really smooth, natural, and intuitive, none of this quick sliding jerk you can get in the wet grassy stuff...

If you can handle, it will be super fun! :wee:

BUT you'll be at more risk of a fall, AND you'll be falling onto harder ground, something to keep in mind...

keeping your feet flat rather than digging in your heels -- makes a big difference...

after you progress a bit, then yes, it's a survival technique for when you're well powered up, a good skill to have!

this is the thread that got me scudding, it's good to see it live again!:thumbup:

logantheninja - 14-1-2009 at 04:26 PM

well like only the heels so if too fast i hit kite killers and brake with the toes

furbowski - 14-1-2009 at 05:22 PM

Heels to hold the kite, hold your feet flatter on the ground to go / help you go, but pushing on toes too hard would be bad, and make you much more likely to face plant, esp. if the ground is uneven.

At the windspeeds you'll be flying the 3m in the kite will be moving fast through the window. You should be able to stop by flying the kite to the edge of the window, and stop quite quickly at that. If you don't feel like you have that degree of control, you shouldn't be scudding.

And now allow me to get all pompous on you: that wet grass is fun, but slicky quick to slide on and dangerously hard to fall on if you get going to any speed...:cool: I see from your response to the kitemare thread that you have some idea of what I'm on about...

Be aware that I have the greatest respect for Bladerunner and his advice to you in another thread, and that my experience, at best, is only a few percentage points of his. There are lots of guys on this forum who are to him as he is to me, as well, and most of them post less than I do.

well, anyways...:lol: have fun out there doing the wind thing! But please do be careful and manage your risks by flying the little kite first if the wind looks exciting, getting protection / body armour, and all that....

:Ange09:

logantheninja - 14-1-2009 at 08:33 PM

im used to falling hard it will take alot to get me to make a kite mareha but i like the thrill :wee:

WELDNGOD - 20-1-2009 at 08:03 PM

well put Furbs', and we just don't want ya to become"loganthegimp":shocked2:

furbowski - 20-1-2009 at 08:26 PM

yeah, well, after ninja boy here finishes "testing" his health insurance I just hope he has the balls to put his x-rays online and learn from it like our friend dustin... :flaming:

In the meantime, I wish him the best of luck... :Ange09: :o

Scudley - 27-1-2009 at 08:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by logantheninja
well like only the heels so if too fast i hit kite killers and brake with the toes


You forgot about the part after braking with toes: landing on your nose.
S

geojones - 19-2-2009 at 08:27 AM

i bought a poly utility bin thats 53 inches long 25 wide and 11 on the sides and its perfect to sit in and get dragged all over the place--it is comfy--i never get pulled out and i can use it on the snow,also......and i dont have to worry about injuries:shocked2: