My buggy build (Zephyr I)

I am addicted ..... New build.

This will be the first buggy that I build The Zephyr I.
I am hoping to get feed back, tips and hints. Thanks for reading.

This is all the steel and wheels for the rolling chassis.


Actual size lay out for the goose neck.

Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh

The rims are 8in x 7in 52mm hub 52mm x 20mm bearings. Tyres are 18in x 9.5in x 8in 4 ply. (midi XL) If increasing the distance between the axle and fork, do you need to change the head angle to be more in line with the axle? (more caster, more caster is more stable)

yes true, but too much can shake/shimmy the tire and rememder: there is only 1 frontwheel on your bug, it's not a car.( or a Crab.. )
i've just measured mine and i have it neutral. (give or take 0.1 degrees due to tire-pressure)
so riding backwards is also stable.. :D

i've driven so many time's well over 50Mph and backwards not that much slower and the stability with neutral caster is great.

even with the side-ride wich adds an easy 100kg with passenger (with or without kite) has no negative influence of the stability.
also with the tandem (speed +50Mph) wich increases the downforce on the rear-axle dramaticly, i only need to deflate the front tire slightlty to go like it's a solo-run.


but that's how is see it, it is your project.
perhaps a trialrun with neutral and then positive caster will make it easier to choose..

keep them pics coming.

Quote: Originally posted by jantie

Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh   The rims are 8in x 7in 52mm hub 52mm x 20mm bearings. Tyres are 18in x 9.5in x 8in 4 ply. (midi XL) If increasing the distance between the axle and fork, do you need to change the head angle to be more in line with the axle? (more caster, more caster is more stable) yes true, but too much can shake/shimmy the tire and rememder: there is only 1 frontwheel on your bug, it's not a car.( or a Crab.. ) i've just measured mine and i have it neutral. (give or take 0.1 degrees due to tire-pressure) so riding backwards is also stable.. :D i've driven so many time's well over 50Mph and backwards not that much slower and the stability with neutral caster is great. even with the side-ride wich adds an easy 100kg with passenger (with or without kite) has no negative influence of the stability. also with the tandem (speed +50Mph) wich increases the downforce on the rear-axle dramaticly, i only need to deflate the front tire slightlty to go like it's a solo-run. but that's how is see it, it is your project. perhaps a trialrun with neutral and then positive caster will make it easier to choose.. keep them pics coming.

So, yesterday it was too cold to work in the garage. Instead did some reading about the geometry on front of a buggy. First off I think I used the wrong term, I am speaking of rake and trail. PTW site has a page on explaning the rake and trail on a buggy.

It looks like 25 - 28 degrees rake and 80mm - 100mm trail seems standard.
I will check the geometry of the several fork designs I have in mind.

May need to change the goose neck. At the moment the rake is at 28 degrees.

Stay tuned.

Ok, the tepm was in the 40s today and I had some time to mess around in the garage.

Worked on getting some Ideas down for the back axle.


Also, I bent the side rails.

Shaping up really nice. Can't wait to see it in fall.
Two thumbs up

Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh

Does anyone have any suggestions for the distance from the ground to the bottom of the goose neck? What is it on and MG or an Apex? Thanks

The last part of the gooseneck wich is horizontal is
about 5 inch in height on my homebrew buggy. But need to say that I use bigfoot fullsize
inflated to 0.2 bar so it drops a bit due to bodyweight.
Not all goosenecks are horizontal like for example the Libre V-Max that I used as a baseline for the Crab.

I'm very curious to know what kinda seat your gonna use or fabricate because of the form me the little odd shape of the sidebars.
The one I mostly use is a Libre full Race seat and would never fit on your buggy.


For the rear axle M20 and the sidebars M16 i used this instead of a short and regular bold:


Keep posting

Quote: Originally posted by kteguru

Shaping up really nice. Can't wait to see it in fall. Two thumbs up

Thanks Dean, there is a lot more to figure out. I hope to have it done by then.

Quote: Originally posted by jantie

Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh   Does anyone have any suggestions for the distance from the ground to the bottom of the goose neck? What is it on and MG or an Apex? Thanks The last part of the gooseneck wich is horizontal is about 5 inch in height on my homebrew buggy. But need to say that I use bigfoot fullsize inflated to 0.2 bar so it drops a bit due to bodyweight. Not all goosenecks are horizontal like for example the Libre V-Max that I used as a baseline for the Crab. I'm very curious to know what kinda seat your gonna use or fabricate because of the form me the little odd shape of the sidebars. The one I mostly use is a Libre full Race seat and would never fit on your buggy. For the rear axle M20 and the sidebars M16 i used this instead of a short and regular bold: Keep posting

Thanks for the info, I was looking at 4 inches but that seemed too low. 5 sounds better.
The side rails will have a few more bends, plus they are not trimmed to length yet. But I was so excited, I had to kinda size them up.
I like the stand off for the axle, I will have to find some. Some metric hardware is hard to find in the US.
The seat I will be making myself. Plus, there will be a backrest.
Lots of ideas, I may have to change somethings...???

Quote: Originally posted by rtz

You can get 3/4" ones easily, then swap out your bearings; or have a slightly loose fit in the bearing to bolt connection.

I found some today McMaster Carr a little pricey...


I really would like to stay with the common hardware you would find in the industry. I did consider going the 3/4 inch rout.

Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh

Quote: Originally posted by rtz   You can get 3/4" ones easily, then swap out your bearings; or have a slightly loose fit in the bearing to bolt connection. I found some today McMaster Carr a little pricey... I really would like to stay with the common hardware you would find in the industry. I did consider going the 3/4 inch rout.

a little pricey..??? that is what we call stealing..

Quote: Originally posted by ColinW

I am following this with great interest! Thanks for taking the time to post the progress in such depth.

Thanks, I will post as progress is made. Also any corrections or discoveries.
Are you considering building also.

Ok, some more components finished..

First some axle parts...
I the was planing on finishing the axle.
But the 17.5mm drill I had did not drill mild steel.
I ordered a new one, but it will be middle of this week before it arrives.

So I made the goose neck...


Thanks for looking.

High quality build!

Nice..!!!!


those steel rims are so cool.

Yesterday the new drill that I ordered showed up.

I was able to finish the end caps for the back axle.



I will probably finish the back axle this weekend.

Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh

Quote: Originally posted by ColinW   I am following this with great interest! Thanks for taking the time to post the progress in such depth. Thanks, I will post as progress is made. Also any corrections or discoveries. Are you considering building also.

I have a bunch of buggy parts that mostly fit together... The existing fork is too short for the disc wheels I want to use so I got some plates made up to extend them. I wasn't at all sure about the angles and trail and rake, so made the plates BIG and put many holes in them. The goose neck will have to be extended and re angled as well. I also need to reinforce the side rails (not nearly stiff enough).

I am a carpenter and don't know how to weld but I've finally got the equiptment set up to try. I haven't been able to find any local welding courses that aren't full time trades courses. I have met a great guy who does lots of shiny stuff for the local yachting market, but I don't want to take advantage of him, AND I want to do this myself.

colin

Quote: Originally posted by tomdiving

welding isn't difficult, BUT, do you want to potentially risk your life on something that may or may not be done correctly while you try to learn a new craft? tom

Point taken. I was more concerned with setting fire to the house or myself. This is why I am not sure the University of Youtube will suffice. Looks so easy tho.

Also not really willing to admit that this is out of my reach So I'm going down to the garage to round up all the flamables out of the way.

Got the rear axle done.







Now I know, some might be like ..... Hey that seat Rocks!!!
But, the seat is not staying.....

This week I will work on getting the side rails finished up.
Still trying to figure out how to hold everything together / alignment for welding.

And I need to get the rest of the hardware...

Quote: Originally posted by rtz

I suggest everyone pick up a welder and learn how to use it. Acquire a bunch of scrap metal. Chop it up into smaller pieces. Set the machine settings for the thickness being welded. Get some half way decent welds. Now try it with the machine set to high and too low so you know what that's like. When the machine is dialed in; cut some of your welds in half so you can see what the weld penetration looks like. Take 2 pieces that have been welded together and put them in a vise and beat the end over with a hammer to see how strong the weld is. Mig, Tig, stick. Take up the one that appeals to you.

That's a great way to learn. I actually think we did a very similar thing 30 years ago when I took welding in school.

Ok, moving along.... Yesterday I started the side rails.
I think the shape is Ok, have not made any other bends.

I don't have any actual size drawings. Here is what I did so far.



Then I lined them up and trimmed both ends. Still need to even them up.
I drew the width of the goose neck plus the plates and then the inside of the rails width, to get my trim angles close.

looking good..!!

I now am trying to figure out how to hold everything square.
I made a fixture from things I had around the garage. It is lining up Ok.
I still need to trim the back of the rails a bit. The one on the right side is not angled correctly.



I am hoping to finish up this week. Then I will need to figure out the fork.

Thanks for looking.

Ok, here is more progress. I was unhappy with the way the fixture was holding the buggy parts. So, I decided to change a few things... Now, I did not want to spend money on a fixture that probably will only be used one time. (we'll see) Anyway, here is what I came up with after scavenging some parts which have been laying around my garage and at work.

Here are the parts loaded into the fixture.

After welding the side rails, I borrowed the seat from my other buggy just to see what it would look like.

Quote: Originally posted by rtz

Looks awesome. I like the look of the wide axle and those tires. Where did you source the wheels or what is their standard application?

It's funny you should mention that. Because the tire size is what started this whole build. I saw Claude's VTT Black Widow at the Wildwood Buggy Bash last fall with this size tires on it. The tires were mounted on a wider rim, I think the rims were an 8 x 8 Sysmic. Well to buy Sysmic was a lot of $$$ with shipping. Then I found these rims, I was originally thinking of putting them on my custom Flexi wide axle.

(http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=36640)

But the buggy would have been too high up. So, I finished that build with Midi tires. And made the decision to build from scratch.

Quote: Originally posted by jantie

Looking very good so far. When you finished it, how are you going to treat it? Galvanized or powder coating or....?

Thank you...

As far as finishing I am not sure yet. I was thinking of primer and paint.
One of the main reasons for paint is... I am not sure if I will need to change some thing, make any adjustments, new parts, or modify existing parts.
So, paint will make it easy to strip / repaint and mach parts.

Quote: Originally posted by eric67m

This exists. I have never used it. It is a generic version of "steel-it" a weld through paint. https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Steel-Protective-Spray-Pain...

Thanks for the link. I think this might be a good option.

Ok, started working on the front fork. I did not have a final design in mind. So, I did not put anything on paper, just started working to see where it was going to end up. I knew I wanted some adjustment in the fork for trail and for the foot pegs. With that in mind here is what I have so far. It is only tacked together at the axle plate and at the foot peg plate, the rest is still loose. If anyone is interested, I can get some measurements and post them.

Ok here is this weeks progress.

I tacked the fork together. And I made a back rest. The back rest is not my design. I found a YouTube video by Popeye the Welder, the back rest turned out nice. Thank you Popeye for your contributions.



So, then I put the seat on again and sat in it. It was really flexi... the side rails 1.25 tube .125 thick still really bouncy??? I could not let that go. I am a bigger guy, and it felt like it would not hold up with me riding in it. So, I made struts to stiffen the rails. At this point all is tacked into place and the buggy will stand on it's own, with out any supports.



Things left to do..... Finish the foot pegs, finish welding, paint, make seat, make side rail covers, and bag.

Foot pegs....





I was hoping to finish all welding/grinding this weekend but I ran out of welding wire. Hoping to finish up in the next few weeks.

Also, I found this to use as padding..
https://www.zoro.com/tundra-pipe-ins-poly-1-18-in-id-6-ft-6x...

This insulation is 3/4" wall, the center is to size and it is more firm then the stuff at Home Depot.

Here is a side by side.

OK, Jacks back......

It has been a while since I had any time to work on my buggy.
This week I finally got some time in.

Here is the long story... Finished the front fork.

If you notice, I put supports in in the middle. Once I did that I could not take the fork of the Swan Neck. The wall of the yolk was a bit taller then the bearing. Both on top and bottom. Here is a picture hopefully you can see what I mean. To get the fork off, I had to grind the top and bottom of the yolk.



Now, I also noted that the bottom tube of the swan neck was a bit too long, about 4 inches.



So, I ground the top and bottom of the yolk, shortened the bottom tube, and I added a sleeve in. The sleeve will, down the road, give me a place to tie / hook off an AQR. Here are a couple pics.

Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh

I have not used an AQR system. I am actually still getting comfortable with using a harness with my power kites. I have a homemade harness and a PL Divine. The swan neck extends about two inches into the seating area when the buggy is adjusted for me. That puts the thru hole just in front of me. I will put a grommet around the front area of the seat to allow for access. I know the object is to get as close to the release point as possible. Well if it dose not work having the sleeved hole there wont effect anything.

The extra hole may come into play when attempting to set a PB. :evil:

Anyone else have a fetish for new tyres with spikes or just me ? Great build.

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Quote: Originally posted by Jack.Oh   I have not used an AQR system. I am actually still getting comfortable with using a harness with my power kites. I have a homemade harness and a PL Divine. The swan neck extends about two inches into the seating area when the buggy is adjusted for me. That puts the thru hole just in front of me. I will put a grommet around the front area of the seat to allow for access. I know the object is to get as close to the release point as possible. Well if it dose not work having the sleeved hole there wont effect anything. The extra hole may come into play when attempting to set a PB. :evil:

And brown pants

Quote: Originally posted by RedSky

Anyone else have a fetish for new tyres with spikes or just me ? Great build.

Time to make wheel spacers...

Look at them spikes ....


Thanks!

Ok, I am sure that all of you people here know about wheel spacers.

This is just the next step to the build. I am using 1" steel tube /.083" wall, this was left over from a fork I made for my other buggy. (pic above)

First take the bearings out, setup a flat surface, place the wheel on it, and measure the hub. It measures 3.250".


Next, setup the bearing, measure it and do some math.

Hub - Bearing seat times two = Spacer length
3.250-(.450x2)=2.350

I do not have a mill or a lath so sawzall and a belt sander.


Job Done!

The buggy is now all apart.


Next up is paint, stay tuned.

Nice job
Can't wait to see it painted and assembled
Wildwood will be here in no time!

Hey all,

I am back from a long time out. Last thing I posted was the buggy was ready for paint. So I took all the parts to my shop at work and it sat there for a while. Now a few weeks ago I finally did paint it.

This is the primer coat. Also, made a template for the seat.



I then painted it black and took it back home.

Now in my garage I started the fabric work. This is how far I am now.

Here are the fabrics used...
Rail covers and fork bumpers are done.
The seat is in progress.






The top of the seat is done... Next up is the bottom of the seat.

Fantastic work as always Jack .

Quote: Originally posted by jantie

Yup, video is mandatory!! Toptip: use transparent kitchen foil under the sidebar covers so any water won't soak the isolation u used on the sidebars. But it looks REALLLY good!!

Thanks for the tip. I will give it a try.

Here is the bottom part of the seat...



Later today I hope to put the two parts together and the seat will be complete. Then the Bag and the Fender. And maybe a phone mount, maybe.

Put some time in this weekend. Here is the rest of the seat.



With a complete seat my test pilot leaps into action.

Here I finished the bag and installed.
The bag has space to hold 3 kites plus some extras (6.5M, 5M, and 4M)

Looks like another sweet ride Jack . Although your test pilot seemed to look a little concerned

Nice work!

Quote: Originally posted by kteguru

Looks like another sweet ride Jack . Although your test pilot seemed to look a little concerned Nice work!

Hey Dean, I think he herd about the wheel coming loose on my other buggy at Nahant. I tried to tell him that was not going to be a problem but he insisted that I go first.

See you next week.

Quote: Originally posted by jantie

I'm curious about the handling when pulled by a kite. The length of the buggy in comparison with yours as can be guessed on the video I would say you're gonna experience understeer.. Especially when your loading the 'trunS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-... My buggy needed to be extended at the rear because I had a 14 kg weightloss. The extension are 5.5 inch and that made a difference between oversteer and balanced. When is the first testrun scheduled?

Hi Jantie, I am curious about the same things... I have some adjustment in the front, about 100mm, and actually do need to move it forward some maybe fifty. Also the seat can move forward or back about 50-75 mm. I don't really know how it will work out.. just taking a guess.

But the good news is I plan on going to the Wildwood Buggy Bash next week and then I think I will have a good idea of how the buggy will behave. Also, there are great pilots there with a lot more experience and knowledge then me, and they are good at helping and explaining the why and the how.

I am really excited about getting it out on the beach.

Oh and I did get that cam so hopefully I will have some videos to share.

Here is the completed buggy at Wildwood



It handled good.. We did not have great wind conditions, mostly off shore and gusty.

Being an inexperienced flyer I stayed on the conservative side and had to walk back a few times.

Overall it was good.

In a few weeks I plan on attending the JIBE, hoping for on shore wind to really get a good feel for how this rides.