primekutzz - 22-5-2007 at 07:56 AM
Is is a common and/or smart thing to do to use kites designed for kite surfing for ATB landboarding? I know they're a "little" on the big side but
they have the advantage of coming as a full package with depower bar. Right? Help a confused noob.
j55 - 22-5-2007 at 08:33 AM
lol, well i am no expert but it seems that alot of people use them for landboarding, especially peter lynn kites, but im not quite sure if they are
kitefurfing or what, i know they have sealed cells but the zip on the back doesnt seem waterproof.
acampbell - 22-5-2007 at 08:45 AM
The Peter Lynn Venom II is an example of one of the twinskiin kites j55 referred to and is commonly used as a cross-over kite for land or water.
Problem is, as you guessed, is a sizing conundrum. Anyting big enough to haul you out of the water in moderate winds might (dependin go n your riding
style) overpower you on land. Snow skiing however is a good application for a larger kite since you can hold down a lot of kite with two edges in
snow.
The PL Vortex is an entry level kiteboarding kite but would not do well with a land board or buggy (but can be used on skis).
The Scorpion is designed for land use but can be used on water, however the PL folks tell me it is more difficult to water-relaunch.
Bladerunner - 22-5-2007 at 09:07 AM
I think you are asking about LEI's ( leading edge inflated ) kites.
The newer kites , especially the bow kites work well on land. Old 4 line C kites are a pain to relaunch on land.
The drawback with them for beginners is the potential to pop a bladder when you crash. Better left to those who rarely drop their kites.
domdino - 22-5-2007 at 11:11 AM
Hell yeah you can... check out what ollie gets up to that crazy lil kid! 
http://media.bestkiteboarding.com/videos/bularoo_landboardin...
Just be careful not to crash them!
The peter lynn isn't exactly a kitesurfing kite, its just and all rounder...
awindofchange - 22-5-2007 at 12:03 PM
If you are looking to do both, land and water, then the Peter Lynn kites are awesome. I have used both the Venom's and the Scorpions on land and use
the Venom's on the water. Haven't had the chance to use the Scorp on water yet but plan on doing so soon. The HUGE depower range of the Scorp is
just awesome for land use. You can get some huge air's with some awesome hang time.
You can use the inflatables (lei's) for land just as easy as you can for water and they do work well. The downside to this is what has already been
posted above, the bladders can take a huge beating, especially out here in Vegas with our sharp rocks and rough "sandpaper surface" dry lake beds.
If you are only looking for land use (land board or snow board) then I highly suggest looking into the depowerable foils such as the Montana 2, Apex,
Access and the Frenzy. These kites are sold complete just like the surf kites with depower bar, quick release safety systems, chicken loops, flying
lines, kite, bag, etc... The nicest thing about these kites is that you don't need to pre-inflate them at all. No pumps, no bladders to burst and
they pack down fast, easily and in about half the space as an LEI. Setup is just as simple, lay them out on the ground, walk your lines and launch.
Self launching and self landing is simple and much safer than with an inflatable. In most instances you are using a kite that is smaller in size than
their comparable surf kite sizes so they turn and react faster. The Frenzy'z and Montana's are true depowerable kites and have huge lift with
awesome hang time that is as good or even better than most surf kites. They also can usually be purchased for less than top of the line surf kites.
Prime...I noticed that you are here in Vegas. Come down to our store and I can show you the different kites and how they work. We stock all of the
kites listed in my post and we even have demo kites for you to try before you buy. We have our AWOC local fun fly every Friday night where you can
demo these kites and most everything else we carry for free (weather permitting of course ). Contact me for details. 702-736-1476
Pablo - 22-5-2007 at 08:40 PM
The Scorpion is awesome on land, planning on using it on the water as well, I went with the 16m being 250lbs myself. I've had it up in 10mph to 22mph
so far, at 22mph I felt I could have held down a fair bit more power in the bug and on the ATB. The depower range is huge on these kites, PL says 80%,
I figure that's accurate, easily depowers as much as the Bularoo. No bladders to pop either, the zips are waterproof, I had my old venom sitting on
the water for 10min to test it myself and still had no problem relaunching it. Scorp is a little harder to relaunch than the Venom on the water, but
still more than possible.
Once you get to the point where you're not crashing the kite on a regular basis, inflatable kites, Bows or C's both make wicked land kites, you just
want to be able to not hit the ground, relaunch problems and popping are both common. You can often find inflatable kites a couple years old for super
cheap.
Both those options are great if you're going to be on the water as well, But if you're thinking land only check out the Frenzy. I've flown these and
they're awesome kites, smooth, good low wind range for a depowerable. I haven't flown the montana yet, but have heard that they're good as well.
If you're in the area I'd take Kent up on his offer and fly whatever you can to get an idea of what you're after.
primekutzz - 23-5-2007 at 07:08 AM
Thanks for all the input guys. Here's the story. For a while I was considering getting into buggying. From my experiences flying my 3m Premier, I
thought I was set. However, from seeing videos, doing a lot of research, and asking around, I'm definitely going the boarding route (not that I'm
shunning buggying). As a matter of fact, I'm purchasing a board on this forum.
So...I'm pretty much a boarding noob. The only experience I have with kiting is with a 3m Premier QuadTrac. I feel that it's more of a buggy kite than
a boarding kite. So, I'm looking at my options and need advice on which kite to start with that would be easy to learn yet be versatile. I'm also
thinking that I would need a larger kite because my fat ass is 260lbs. Just as Kent said, I'm liking the idea of using the Frenzy, Montana 2, etc
because there are not bladders to worry about inflating or bursting. But don't know if that's enough kite for all my blubber. So please advise this
noob.
And Kent, I've been by the shop about a year ago to purchase a couple spars for my Rev Exp. I wonder if you remember me. I was the one with the blue
and neon yellow Rev that might have not been made by the company. Anyway, I'll take you up on the offer and maybe probe your brain a little more about
these kites and boarding.
primekutzz - 23-5-2007 at 07:24 AM
Oh and to add to that. I'm not really looking to do massive jumps and get as much lift as possible. What I really like to do is free ride and cruise.
I'd like to get some speed and maybe, just maybe get myself in the air a couple times. Breaking bones and face plants don't sound that good to me
right now.
awindofchange - 23-5-2007 at 11:02 AM
Prime,
I remember ya. How's that Rev going for you? Hopefully you have been able to get it up in the air and fly.
Anyways, you gotta get out to the park with us on Friday nights. We fly every Friday and I have a Frenzy and Montana you can demo. I also have a
harness and ground board for you to ride. We meet at the south end of the Sam Boyd Silver Bowl soccer park. Address is Russell Road and Boulder
Highway. We're right next to the RC tracks.
Weight is no problem. I weigh 240 and the kites have more than enough power to get you going. Your 3 meter should have enough power for you in the
right winds. The Premier kite is not as good as some of the others for power but it should still work for you on the dry lake bed.
Come on out and fly with us and we can get you hooked up.
j55 - 23-5-2007 at 11:19 AM
i am flying a sabre 7m mostly atm, what sort of winds should i be flying in to acheive jumps about 10' on a board?
Bladerunner - 23-5-2007 at 03:51 PM
Primekutzz, sounds like you have found a good shop with good advice. When thinking about fixed bridle or depower consider that even though depower is
more expensive, it is safer + you can possibly have a 2 kite set-up. The only big drawback I can mention about depower is that they often aren't the
ultimate low wind kites. If you go open cell depower they will fly as soon as there is enough wind to actually be fun.
J55, your weight plays into things ! Also your location and flying skills. If you mean 10ft high and clean wind you will need at least 11kts or more.
j55 - 23-5-2007 at 04:15 PM
i weigh about 75kg, i can ride a board fine, just learning how to jump jump 3-4' jumps arent really doing it for me, so i need to do some bigger
jumps, no tricks as of yet,
anything else you need to know??
Bladerunner - 23-5-2007 at 04:42 PM
OOPS, Now I see your weight above.
10 ft is actually a lot higher than I'm jumping so someone obtaining those heights will know better. I find that at about 11kts I'm able to jump well
even with my 7 Bullet. Not any 10ft though.
P.S. We have a local with a 7 Sabre. I think the only time I've seen him a true 10 ft up with it he got himself a spanking :moon:
Pablo - 23-5-2007 at 05:08 PM
If that's Greg's sabre it's a 9.5m
Words of advice, you've got a wicked shop in the area, Fly his kites, listen to his advice and I'm sure he'll get you into something well suited to
your ability and requirements.
j55 - 24-5-2007 at 06:55 AM
so i can get heights like this? with this kite?
and what is the wind speed i will need in mph, sorry i have no ides about knots, lol
:P
primekutzz - 3-6-2007 at 03:54 AM
I'm going to go for it. I can't really find a foil kite for the price I'm willing to pay and find that there are numerous LEI's on ebay (some even
complete packages) that are less than $200 used. I don't really care if the kite's used or not, just as long as it works and is ready to fly.
The question now is sizing for land use. I need your input here. I don't know what size to start out with. Winds here in Vegas can vary from 10-30mph.
I'm 5'10" and 250lbs. I'm thinking that I might need a larger sized kite for my physical size. Please help.
Pablo - 3-6-2007 at 10:47 AM
I'm guessing something like an old school 12m C kite would be pretty good if you've got to settle on one kite. If you eventually plan on going 2
kites, then probaby a 10m C and a 14m C would be just about right.