Power Kite Forum

Beginner with 3M but I want more, Please help

Timber - 21-7-2007 at 11:41 PM

Well I am a beginner. I have a P3 right now but I am ready for a larger traction kite. Ultimatly I would like to get off the ground or get on a buggy or board. I am 210 lbs and would like something that will challenge me but not totally frustrate me. So I am thinking of something like a beamer 5M or Flexifoil rage 4.7. Will a 5m kite be to much for me? Unfortanatly I don't think my wife will be hip with me buying a smaller kite and then stepping up to a larger kite later so even though it may be rough starting I think I want to challenge myself. So what size would you guys recomend?

Rye - 22-7-2007 at 07:13 AM

The challenge comes from the wind, not the kite. I am about your weight and have several sizes of the Rage. In my buggy I have hit my personal best buggy speed with the 2.5, good wind day for that kite, bad wind day for the 4.7. If I had put up the 4.7 rage I would have been pulled from the buggy, dragged into the sea and drowned! Ok, I exaggerate a bit, but you get my point. The 4.7 is a great kite, so is the 2.5, it is all wind dependent on which gives the thrills for the wind you are in. In light summer winds (average) I use the bigger kites, in some of the fall/winter winds I find the smaller ones do the same thing. Having one kite just leaves you watching others much of the time.

Hope this helps.

khooke - 22-7-2007 at 09:03 AM

Exactly as Rye says, it's all about the wind conditions. If I were you to make your choice which one to get, think about the average wind conditions for where you like to fly and at what time of year. Then check out the recommended wind speeds on the manufacturers website and then make your choice.

If you pick the smaller one but the winds are lighter most of the time, or the larger one but the winds are mostly stronger, then you'll be kicking yourself that you should have got the other one.

Of course ideally you'll have a range of kites to cover all wind speeds, but then again that's not practical for most of us.

The biggest mistake you can make it to fly a kite thats way to large for the wind conditions because 'that's all you have'... that's just asking for trouble (and at some point I think we've all done it).

Timber - 23-7-2007 at 08:24 AM

Thanks Rye and khooke. Around here winds are generally not very severe so I think I might spring for the larger kite first. Still that seems kind of backwards but I don't want to get board. I don't think I have enough respect for the power of a traction kite as I have only had stunt kites so far. There is a local guy selling a used 2m quadrafoil with a land lizard buggy for $325. Does that seem like a good deal or a good starter package?:puzzled:

GulfSandEater - 23-7-2007 at 01:37 PM

Timber, speaking of respect for power kites...

I'm new too and just flew a quad line for the first time this weekend. In 5-10 mph winds my 3.0m was offering some respectible pull to learn how to manage.

Taper123 was kind enough to let me try his 8m after only 15 - 30 minutes of flying my 3m. Well, maybe kind isn't the right word...maybe he was looking for entertainment.

I told myself, "Stay away from the power zone..." and "keep the kite high in the sky". Did I listen? No!! I tried to turn the 8m, it dropped down a little bit, powered up, pulled me off my feet, and drug me down the beach a ways before it came down.

I was laughing the whole time :lol:, but I think I'll keep working on the smaller kites for a little while...

(But I'll gladly fly your kite again Taper, if you'll let me! haha)

acampbell - 24-7-2007 at 10:11 AM

The Beamer 5.m and the Rage 4.7 are different kites, nevermind the different price. Both are easy to fly and stable and that will serve you well. The new Beamer III's are no slugs but the slightly smaller Rage will be a bit more aggressive and cut upwind better. The wind range will be smaller for both these kites than with a smaller kite, so the irony is tht you get more ripstop for your money but less flying time while waiting for wind that will not scare the crap out of you.

I have a Crossfire 7.7 that is something of a novelty in light winds like 5 kts, but it does not come out of the bag much. When it does, it is a lot of work to fly so where's the fun in that?

Rye and Khooke have it right. Two days ago I was in winds 16- 20 knots in my Wide-axle Flexi bug and a Rage 3.5. I had some of my fastest buggy runs and was anything but bored but still always felt in control. After a few upwind slogs my arms were shot so I put on the harness and strop. My abs are still sore from holding the kite down on the upwind runs.

If you had to compromise, 4.0 is as large as you should go, IMO. In that range there is the Beamer III 4.0 m, the Peter Lynn Reactor 3.8 for something more aggressive but still easy or a PKD Buster II. You will enjoy it and get a thrill in winds 8-12 kts and later when comfortable you will enjoy the thrill at up to 20 kts. Even then, one day in 10 kts it will spank you when you are not looking and you will learn never to be bored.

Timber - 24-7-2007 at 11:10 AM

I was afraid that I would have newbie writen all over my forhead and it coming true. I am doing lots of reading and you guys are so helpfull. Now I am thinking of starting with a pansh b/c of the afordability. I have not been able to find a website that talks about the different characteristics of the pansh kites? Thinking of the Pansh ace 3.5. Is this a bad move?

lee_m - 4-8-2007 at 01:27 PM

Hi peeps, 1st off what an awesome site! loads'a great info, and easy to read!!!! well done!:saint:
2nd i'm a new be and this is my first!! SO HELLO!!:lol:

Now
I really want to get into kite buggying as it just looks amazing! i've flown some of the old type power kites, and i just love it! i was a bit smaller back then and it scared me! LOL
I would like to get back into it and i've been looking at the HQ beamer II 3.6M.
would this be a great kit to get back into it? i would be flying it in and around the 10-20 kts!
Does this kite have De-power?

acampbell - 4-8-2007 at 01:56 PM

That's a perfect kite to start with and just the right size. Start off in the 10-12-kt range and work yourself up. Good buggy engine too, for starters.

The Beamer is a fixed bridle foil and as such is not a de-power rig. The Beamer II is better off on 4-line handles (that it comes with) than a control bar, neither of which are the same as a de-power bar.

Good luck and have fun.

Samuel_j - 4-8-2007 at 02:08 PM

im begginer and i got a radsail 1.8sqm and that lifts me off! but then i am a skinny #@%$#! and the wind is allways high! i definately need a kite with brakes though!!

lee_m - 4-8-2007 at 02:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
That's a perfect kite to start with and just the right size. Start off in the 10-12-kt range and work yourself up. Good buggy engine too, for starters.

The Beamer is a fixed bridle foil and as such is not a de-power rig. The Beamer II is better off on 4-line handles (that it comes with) than a control bar, neither of which are the same as a de-power bar.

Good luck and have fun.


Great thanks for the reply mate!!
would i be better off getting the Beamer III kite in 3M as i think it has this De-power they have called it (kite killer) is this the same thing??

acampbell - 4-8-2007 at 02:55 PM

Both the Beamer II and III have kite killers and that is not the same as de-power. Kite killers are a safety device used on 4-line fixed bridle foils. De-power is a different kind of rig altogether than fixed bridle and is whole different class of kite in many ways.

Kite killers work on 4-line fixed bridle foils like the Beamer or other similar kites. They consist of wrist cuffs to which leashes are attached and the other end of the leashes go to where the brake lines connect to the leaders coming off the bottoms of the handles. By letting go of the handles (if you are having a brown-trouser moment), the kite is grabbed by the brake lines, flips over on its back, deflates and turns into falling cloth on slack lines. The added benefit is that the handles do not go flying away and bonk somoene on the head or get wrapped around a tree.

A de-power rig is always used with a harness and a de-power bar. It differs from a fixed bridle foil (that uses the brake lines to deflect the trailing edge of the kite) in that it changes the angle of attack of the entire kite. Here is a basic schematic of a de-power rig....
http://www.coastalwindsports.com/servlet/the-De-dsh-power-Ki...

A system of pulleys in the bridle allow the whole kite to pivot on the center bridles (the "b"), while the front ("a") and rear ("c" or "d") are pulled in or out respectively. There can be variations but this is the basi idea. This allows your to power up the kite (pull the bar in and increase the angle of attack) or de-power the kite (let the bar out and reduce the angle of attack, effectively putting it in "neutral").

Examples of de-power kites are HQ Apex, Montana 2, Flexifoil Sabre 2, just about all inflatable kiteboarding/ kitesurfing kites. These are more sophisticated rigs not suggested for first timers. They are a lot more expensive too, but it can be argued that because of the de-power, their useable wind range is large, so the kite can take the place of two or more fixed bridle kites in your bag.



Depower bars should not be confused with simple control bars used on 4-line fixed bridle foils, such as the Beamer TSR. In this case the main lines connect to the ends of the bars and the brake lines run through a pulley rigged at the middle of the bar. Moving the bar to turn changes the geometry of the triangle formed by the bar, main lines and brake lines and effectively pulls on the brake line in the direction of the turn.

An advantage of the Beamer III over the II is that it will fly on a control bar (remember, not a de-power bar) as well as a Beamer TSR, so it is argueably more versatile.

Hope this helps. De-power and bar type is confusing at first to most folks looking at kites for the first time.

lee_m - 5-8-2007 at 12:51 AM

WOW:oThank you very much for the write up!!!!!!!:thumbup:

From what you have said i think i'll try and find a Beamer II with the kite killers for now:thumbup: the hole De-power sound odd to start off with!
Right off to e-bay to see if i can find a NICE second hand one!:thumbup:

If anyone has a Beamer II they would like to sell to a New-be! can you PM me!

Thanks for the help mate:thumbup: