Power Kite Forum

Kite weights

beachrights - 1-11-2007 at 05:06 PM

I am working with one of my vendors at work who produces "draft dodgers" for our store. They are tubes of fabric filled with sand that are used to stop drafts under doors.
Anyway, I got to thinking that they would make a great kite weight if one was about 8- 10 feet long. So we started talking and he is currently producing a prototype for me made out of waterproof material filled with clean sand. It will be about 2 inches in diameter. Weight will be about 10 -12 pounds.

They will be filled just enough to allow it to be folded multiple times to be placed in a buggy, kitebag. I think it will be an excellent tool for weighting a foil on the ground. -No more hand fulls of sand for those spots that your water bottles can't reach! It will cover the WHOLE trailing edge so setting up lines will be quicker and easier.

I am going to start with a 10 footer and see how it goes. If it works as well as I think it will I will have him make a 15 footer for my 5 meter.

If you are interested in one let me know, prices have not been talked about yet but I see them being produced for under $20. He makes excellent quality products for our store so I am confident it will be a great product.

Of course, I will post a picture when I get my "Kite Snake"

NPWfever - 1-11-2007 at 05:37 PM

I see some serious potential here for land based kiters that are not around sand (parks and such) i find myself usually going to the backstop putting it on it so it holds the kite up and then hooking up the lines. Makes it easier (plus you can just launch off the backstop). Seems great tho cuz you could still launch it and the bags would just fall off. but instead of a 15 footer which would be akward to move and be harder to fold i might go with like 3, five foot sections. Or even 3 4 foot sections and just leave a 1foot gap between them, would do the same job with less bulk, not to mention easier to fill. I might have a go at making one (i would buy one but i am 15 and frugal)

Pablo - 1-11-2007 at 06:01 PM

I've used the little 1ft bags that come with our new kites and two of them seem enough to hold down the average kite in serious winds, that's all we used at NABX, either the little bags or someone filled some socks with rocks/bolts or something, they worked awesome as well. I think 5-10ft would just be hard to transport.

Pdxnebula - 1-11-2007 at 06:26 PM

I like the Idea, & even if it were only say an "inch" in Diam. it'd still have plenty of weight... Myself if I need to I have, about a, 4 foot peice of Smooth drift wood thats still plenty heavy, that I can & do use from time to time, that works pretty well & is just enough to hold down the TE & rolls off easily to launch... But I like the idea, the same could be done by just sewing together 2-3 of the door draft blockers...

1oldkid - 1-11-2007 at 07:05 PM

I use an old pair of socks I filled with pea gravel and covered with neon yellow duct tape. Usually two per kite out near the wing tips, maybe a couple feet in. I set them on the trailing edge, long ways pointing to the top of kite. Pull the kite edge flat to the ground and set them on between the brake line bridle strings. Then I can walk back to the handles and pull for the kite to fill and tug when I want it to lift off. The bags just slide off and away we go!

Pablo - 1-11-2007 at 07:28 PM

Yup, really large kites may require a third bag at the centre of the trailing edge to keep it stuck to the ground in higher winds.

action jackson - 1-11-2007 at 07:51 PM

i double up two walmart bags and fill with sand and rocks....aj

tridude - 1-11-2007 at 08:05 PM

I find 2 York 35 pound weights on a curl bar work nicely! I kid, I kid......................dive belt weights work awesome!

Pdxnebula - 1-11-2007 at 09:35 PM

For now I'll stick with my 4 foot smooth peice of, driftwood... The draft stoppers still sound like a good idea though, just not as thick even 1" in diam. are still close to 3" around & would weigh plenty to hold down the TE of a kite, as long as you've got your brake loops set over your groundstake, & unwind your lines the
way I do, & dont detatch them from the kite... For stakes two, 2 foot, 3/8" diam. Fiberglass rods, sharpened on 1 end...

Pablo - 1-11-2007 at 11:00 PM

Or use a ground stake on grass, $1.50 at the local hardware store, works great to hold down a kite, for larger kites, 2 stakes, one to keep some tension on the brake lines to hold the trailing edge down on the ground.

acampbell - 2-11-2007 at 05:38 AM

I bought a bunch of 2" tubular webbing and a length of 5/16" galvanized chain.

I produced "Kite snakes" in 1m, 2m, and 3m, lengths. Chain inside the tubing a few inches shorter than the tubing. Loop of light rope around end of chain hanging out of the end of the tubing. Nickel plated snaps to close the end of the tubing and keep the chain in.

2 each 2m snakes were most effective for most kites and easier to maneuver around than on real long one. Put on the trailing edge on top of the brake lines so that they roll off on the kite on launch. Use them as third hands while folding up later. Nylon/ Polyester tubing slides easily over the kite without scratch or damage.

also use as buggy tow line.

B-Roc - 2-11-2007 at 05:49 AM

I agree with Pablo - if you are on grass, nothing is simpler, cheaper and more reliable than a ground stake.

That being said, I have three five pound canvass bags filled with sand and I've used them in the winter when the ground is too frozen to sink a stake.

10 foot would be way too long for me to use and the longer the weight, the more potential it has to snag on a bridle leg before it falls off the kite.. I think you'd be better off making them in 2 or 3 foot sections so you can apply them where needed on kites and use them on smaller kites too.

DAKITEZ - 2-11-2007 at 09:02 AM

I also agree with B-Roc. 2 - 3 foot sections and use 2 or 3 of them. I was using long weights and they tended to get caught on my brake lines. I like the sock idea w/ some gravel. I will be making up a few of those today.

DAKITEZ - 2-11-2007 at 09:06 AM

I think maybe this got alittle off track. beachrights never said he was going to use this to launch the kite, just weigh it down to set up his lines. Or maybe it was just my mind getting off track. I am a newbie after all.

beachrights - 2-11-2007 at 11:49 AM

Well- the crowd has spoken! As you can see from the posts, we are all trying different ideas. My thought was to find the perfect tool for the application.

The idea of one long snake vs several small ones is to make it easier to pick up and get it in a bag quickly. I am thinking "buggy". For static, yes several could just "roll off" as you launch.

As for the bridle catching- this was the problem I was having with my weight bags. I see the round shape sitting on the kite below the bridle lines and rolling off as you pull back and inflate.

I hate wet blowing sand getting in the cells and your hands all sticky and full of sand as you launch. I will post my review when I try my prototype.

Keep the ideas coming!! maybe between all of us we can design something new!

macboy - 19-11-2007 at 11:18 PM

Chiming in my 2¢

I picked up a handful (six) ankle / wrist weights. You can get them in various weights and as a bonus the ones I got have a velcro strap which work great for lashing them to the gear loops on the Rage backpack. A pricey option but they work well and are soft a silk when I tug the kite up out from under them.

GlideGuy - 20-11-2007 at 02:58 PM

A couple of 12" plastic ziplock bags is all you need. If you don't want to carry them around full, you can use whatever is handy at the flying site to fill them, sand, snow, some small stones, and just dump them when you leave.

You only need to hold down one wing tip, not the @#$%ing trailing edge!

beachrights - 20-11-2007 at 03:26 PM

Hey GlideGuy- We all have different methods that work for our kites. Some are right for some but not for others.

Trying to show you are right in your opinion by using your swearing symbols is not what this forum is about. Your registration is recent and maybe you do not know how we help each other here. Check the rules.

art_lessing - 20-11-2007 at 07:09 PM

take a 26" inner tube, cut it so its one long tube, tie one end, then fill it 3/4 of the way with lead buck shot. Tie it off and thats it....four- five pounds.

GlideGuy - 20-11-2007 at 07:17 PM

beachrights, Are you here to help the other pilots or promote a product you want to market?

You evoke a certain amount of anger in me because you are advocating a kite launching method that is dangerous. Large long weights across the entire trailing edge of the kite are unnecessary unless you have the kite in the eye of the wind.

In strong winds foil kites should be rolled out at the edge of the window perpendicular to the wind with a small weight placed on a fold on the upwind wing tip. The lines should then be laid out across the window at an angle. Using this technique ensures that the pilot isn't exposed to the maximum force the kite can generate when he is most vulnerable...during the initial launch.

This isn't just my opinion; it's a technique that most PASA & IKO instuctors teach.

I'm new to the sport, and new to posting on this site, but I've read hundreds of posts on PKF, and I have hundreds of hours of experience in sport flying. Quite frankly I've found a lot of garbage being posted here by people with very little true knowledge on the subjects at hand.

There are also some really great people here with loads of experience willing to share what they know purely for the benefit of the sport. To those people, I say a heartfelt thank you.

Pdxnebula - 20-11-2007 at 09:14 PM

I usually power up directly in the middle of the window, just for that initial Adrenilan RUSH, & then have an Idea of what to look forward to the rest of my flying time, & those initial "FULL POWER" Scuds are a blast...

Pablo - 20-11-2007 at 09:30 PM

I'll admit, I usually "Hot Launch" in the middle of the window, but I've been doing it for years and sit it out in the buggy and have lots of room down wind. It's so much easier/safer when you have wheels, ride out the power burst then cut across wind as the pull mellows down.

If you're flying in big winds for the kite, Glide's right. Side of the window with a bag on one tip is the safe way to go. Fold over a wingtip and weight it, launch PL style.

acampbell - 21-11-2007 at 03:52 AM

GluideGuy
What you describe at the edge of the window is for Bows and similar LEI' that will launch and sit at the edge of the window like that. (also my PL Twinskin) That's why the PASA guys will teach that. It will not work for Open cell kites, generally. The closest you can get to edge of the window for a high wind launch with an open cell kite is about 45 degrees. I think most of us find that holding down the trailing edge in that case is quite useful, as it will still be exposed to the wind. At least that way it is much easier to launch.
Also useful for packing up and folding.

So you are going to swear at folks and then still get angry after a polite rebuke? Glide elsewhere, maybe.

BeamerBob - 21-11-2007 at 06:14 AM

I always launch in the center of the window. If I have my kite staked in a grass field, it would be very damaging to my lines to drag them over to the 45 degree angle that I could still launch with, assuming it would sit still there while I was walking the arc to get that angle. On the beach, the kite would just slide back downwind anyway without some sort of weight. In really high winds I lift just off the ground, then turn to a side and go up the edge of the window. I would do this with all fingers below the power lines till I'm out of the power zone. The weights would completely work with this technique because it would keep the kite stable on the stake.

There just isn't any talking down to anyone on this forum. You are welcome and encouraged to state an opinion that differs from others but you don't ever put others down for not agreeing with you. We might get testy about someone talking about doing something that risks their safety or the safety of bystanders or to a lesser degree, the rights of other kiters in the area to pursue the sport, but not about the way we fly our kites or the equipment we choose. Maybe you should read several hundred more posts and then if you come across a subject that you might have something to offer, then do so in a humble manner with the premise that there could be multiple correct techniques. You seem to come from a cousin sport to Power kites but in no way does your history in another sport give you the right to put down someone here. Would you want a brain surgeon to fix a tooth cavity on you? Yes they are both heavily educated professionals but use different equipment with vastly differing techniques. If you can't "communicate" here within these guidelines, then this forum probably isn't for you.

GlideGuy - 21-11-2007 at 04:41 PM

I apologize if my comments seemed caustic or hurtful.

I have a pretty thick skin myself, so personally I don't take offence when someone disagrees with me, provided he/she can back it up with a logical argument.

I'm here to learn and share what I know. I feel that having participated in both paragliding and kiting, I can bring a unique perspective which might be helpful to some pilots. The skills and knowledge base I've built up over the years apply to both sports.

Aerodynamics, reading the wind and weather and wing handling skills are all things that apply to both sports. Sorry Bob, but this ain't brain surgery!

If you want to advocate a certain technique, I'd like to hear why it's superior to what I suggest, and I'd like to feel free to reciprocate. (It's called constructive criticism.)

If debate isn't something that the members of this forum will tolerate, then I guess you're right Bob, this isn't the place for me.

beachrights - 21-11-2007 at 05:34 PM

Glideguy- The reason I took offense to your statement was the way it was stated and the impression you wanted to make

Quote:"You only need to hold down one wing tip, not the @#$%ing trailing edge!"

How would you take this statement?
That is not constructive criticism as you say you wish to give. It is border line flaming.

As for me promoting a product; I don't think so. I am just trying to throw out an idea and see if people thought it was 'Going to fly' [sorry- I could not resist!] There is a for sale heading in this forum so I do not think I am abusing the forum.

If you or any member think a technique is dangerous I think we all owe it to each other to call it out. Just try a little more tactful approach! I do not see much debating here just a couple of "tennis matches" of throwing ideas across the net at each other. I guess its a dogpile of info and we all take some and leave some behind.

Enough said on this issue- Lets get back to flying!!:thumbup:

PS: Thanks Angus and Bob for trying to iron this out.

1oldkid - 22-11-2007 at 03:36 PM

I still think the tube weight idea laid in the center of the kite on the trailing edge (right on the edge) sounds like it would work well.

The center is where you don’t want the wind to get under while laying out lines, or wrapping them up. If the wing tips flutter a bit, they shouldn’t cause any line tangles would they? Perhaps on the longer bigger kites it might...?

In higher winds on ground that has tall grass or stubble, the kite edge sometimes won’t sit flat on the ground, so I’ve sometimes used three of the foot long sock weights just to keep the center down, but space them out so two are near the wing tips, and one is dead center on the edge.

As the lines start to tension before lift off, the top leading edge and the wingtips seem to be what raise up to attention first, as you fill the sail getting ready, and the trailing edge is the last thing to take off….letting the round weight just roll off :spin:

This sounds like a cool idea, very versatile.

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
I bought a bunch of 2" tubular webbing and a length of 5/16" galvanized chain.

I produced "Kite snakes" in 1m, 2m, and 3m, lengths. Chain inside the tubing a few inches shorter than the tubing. Loop of light rope around end of chain hanging out of the end of the tubing. Nickel plated snaps to close the end of the tubing and keep the chain in.

2 each 2m snakes were most effective for most kites and easier to maneuver around than on real long one. Put on the trailing edge on top of the brake lines so that they roll off on the kite on launch. Use them as third hands while folding up later. Nylon/ Polyester tubing slides easily over the kite without scratch or damage.

also use as buggy tow line.

beachrights - 22-11-2007 at 05:06 PM

FYI: I am still waiting for my "prototype" to be delivered to me. The vendor who makes the regular draft dodgers has been very busy due to the xmas season so mine is still in the works.

BeamerBob - 27-11-2007 at 08:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GlideGuy


Sorry Bob, but this ain't brain surgery!

If you want to advocate a certain technique, I'd like to hear why it's superior to what I suggest, and I'd like to feel free to reciprocate. (It's called constructive criticism.)

If debate isn't something that the members of this forum will tolerate, then I guess you're right Bob, this isn't the place for me.


I can either take your statement above that you have no ability with reading comprehension or you are being inflammatory. You pick. I was using an analogy to make a point, not equating kite flying with surgery. But you knew that didn't you.

Debate is welcome. But it should take the approach of stating what works for you or what didn't work for you in the past and why. It is also appreciated if you think a technique is unsafe, that you state why you think so. Using these techniques, you would never need to say that another persons techniques or equipment *&$%.

If you want to "fit in" and see how this works, do a search on line-winding techniques. There are many different ways and each works for somebody. I've never seen that someone was talked down to for liking a certain technique. The result is an exchange of information that benefits anyone reading it.

I would rather you blend into this society than leave, because you can probably make many contributions to the knowledge base here. Are you up to the task?:smug:

Pablo - 27-11-2007 at 05:36 PM

Either way, the sock bags someone had down at NABX were awesome, short water balloon like, no chance of getting one hooked on a bridal at launch, 2 were enough to hold down a 5.5m kite in 20mph winds no problem. We were also using a handful of the weight bags that come with the PKD accessory pack, easy to fill and 2 will also hold down a fair sized kite.

I think the zip lock bag is genious, easy to pack around when they're empty as well.

BeamerBob - 28-11-2007 at 05:07 AM

I like the zip lock bags idea because you really don't need to haul the weight to the site. Didn't the socks pick up lots of sand? My field I usually fly in has a pile of sand in the middle for some reason, so I could even fill the ziplocks there.

Pablo - 28-11-2007 at 05:37 PM

Socks were down at Ivanpah on the lakebed, so mostly dust, no sand to be found. The PKD bags are almost like the zip lock idea, but with a velcro tab to close them up. But I'd say go with the Zip Lock if you've got to buy something, easy to find, easy to use, and cheap enough that it's not a problem if they happen to go missing.