Power Kite Forum

Making My Own (Proper) Buggy, How Does This Look?

NPWfever - 13-11-2007 at 03:41 PM

It is made of square steel tubing, the wheels rear axle and front fork thing all bolt onto the seat frame. This will be achieved by welding 4 nuts together and welding them into the tube, then the bolt will go through the wheel/frame and into the nuts. Also the ground clearance is about 5 inches, how can I increase it without adding bigger wheels? I am going to use 12" wheels.

Any help is great!
Nick
NPW

ProperBuggy.png - 17kB

action jackson - 13-11-2007 at 05:19 PM

My clearence is less than an inch.....aj

1oldkid - 13-11-2007 at 07:41 PM

Some quick comparison measurements on my Flexi:

Rear axle tube = 53” (it’s the wide axle model)
56” center to center on rear tire tread (they are the wide tread tire)
The seat length is about 20-22” from backrest to front of seat
The backrest sits 20” ahead of the rear axle
From front of seat to center of steering head bolt is 14”
Ground clearance with my little bitty 160lbs is 6” on factory 16 x 6.50 – 8 tires (I don't get enough pie)

:rolleyes:

Good luck, have fun!

GlideGuy - 13-11-2007 at 07:41 PM

here's a link for drawings to build a PL clone...

http://www.racekites.com/reviews/getReview.asp?reviewID=1132

I'm a licenced machinist, I can weld, I have access to all the right metal working tools, band saw, welder, tube bender and I can get material at wholesale prices and I wouldn't build my own buggy.
The mass manufactured bugs that are available now are so inexpensive and well built that it's really hard to justify building your own.

NPWfever - 13-11-2007 at 07:49 PM

Well yeah but when you are 15 and your job pays $6.91 an hour. $500 for a buggy is alot, versus a day of labor and $60 you have a fairly nice buggy, at least a ton better than my current one. I will try the clone one.

NPWfever - 13-11-2007 at 09:34 PM

K new design based off of some pics.
Note the changes:
Frame "peaks" by the seat
More clearance
Facing right
And larger gap between wheel and seat, enabling attachment for a buggy bag.

I will take pics and post instructions if all goes well.

UberBuggy.png - 4kB

gerd1022 - 14-11-2007 at 09:53 AM

if you build it out of junk, it is very cost effective. my roommate and i spent about 40 bucks on our buggy, and it is sweet. we have been beating it up about 3-4 times a week for a couple of month and it is holding up like a champ. we built it off of the geometry for a "basic buggy" on popeyethewelder's site.

geometry is more important than the materials, provided they are strong enough of course. (we usea 2x4 for our rear axle)

being able to sew helps too, we made some nice rail covers and a seat out of a backpack and a junk windsurfing sail.

the side rails are pretty important, we made ours out of some steel fence post and used our machine shop pipe bender for precise bends.

popeyethewelder - 14-11-2007 at 10:45 AM

making them http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder/?g=33349545

ones I have made http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder/?g=33348430

ones others have made http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder/?g=41859403&cr=7

and

http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder/?g=17244836

that should give you some ideas...

GlideGuy - 14-11-2007 at 01:22 PM

PTW's buggies are works of art, but they aren't the kind of thing a teenager is going to build in one day on a limited budget.

Maybe something like whats pictured in photo #118 in the third link could be built without bending any tubing.

gerd1022, does the $40 include the wheels, tires and tubes? If so manybe you could let Nick know where to source them.

gerd1022 - 14-11-2007 at 02:51 PM

it does include the wheels... i got them off of www.freecycle.org, which is a local yahoo group in which people post either things they are getting rid of for free, or things that they want. within two days of posting someone offered me 2wheelbarrow wheels. one of them goes flat quickly, but i just pump it up before every outing. (the front wheel i found in my garage)

i spoke too soon on the buggy not breaking. i just had a 2 hour session in 15 mph winds gusting to 20 with my new frenzy, and the from wheel bearing imploded. its ok tho, that was the weakest part of the buggy, now i have an excuse to improve it.

my buggy is #121 on the third link, however that is an older version... the newer version has a backrest, better foot pegs, better padding an a much improved seat.

WELDNGOD - 14-11-2007 at 05:19 PM

hey NPW, I have tried to weld nuts together,to make a threaded sleeve. doesn't work too well. the nuts shrink together and you can't run a bolt through. even if you put bolt in first, it shrinks and seizes the bolt. But kudos to you for working with your hands,not many youngsters will even try anything that close to work. good luck and remember every discarded attempt, is a lesson learned. oh yeah I'm #127 on the second list.

GlideGuy - 14-11-2007 at 06:55 PM

When I was a kid me and my brother built a very fast, not so safe go-kart in my dads shop. It had a 400cc Rotax engine that we scavenged from a wrecked snowmobile. We had fun building it. I took most of the winter to build it and a couple of weeks to wreck it.

If you need long nuts to secure the wheel bolts you can get coupling nuts at most industrial hardware places. They're just really long nuts for splicing readi-rod sections together. The commercial heating and plumbling guys use them all the time for hanging pipe and HVAC equipment.

http://www.calfast.com/catalog.html#

If you can scavenge an old bike with steel cranks, the bottom bracket would make a pretty solid base component to fabricate a headset.

I second what Weldngod said...kudos to Nick for the enthusiasm.

NPWfever - 14-11-2007 at 07:11 PM

Thanks guys. Yeah building is my life! Aside from kiting. I am looking at picking up a flux core welder to actually start welding myself. And stop taking advantage of my friend. LOL! And I know the nuts you are talking about, those would work rather well. And I'm not going to bend any tubing, on my chopper other buggy and ATB we just cut a sliver out and bent it and welded it back toghether, not the prettiest thing ever but it holds. Oh and I am using steel square tubing as it is easier to work with and cheap, but will still hold up. And my front tire is a wheelbarrow tire I have and I will get 2 simmilar wheels that match for the back. For now I wil use 2 old 16" bike tires and a 13" wheelbarrow in the front. But I want wide closer in size tires later, It just looks odd. Oh also my old buggy has a 2X4 with a ready rod axle, the nuts are stuck tho unless i cut the rod ends off, as the bearings chewed into the thread. Also a backpack is a great idea for a seat, I have a ton laying around. Thanks gerd!

NPWfever - 14-11-2007 at 07:13 PM

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://webhome.idirec...

WOW that is a huge link! K so I was thinking maybe something like that, looks a ton easier than mine.

Pablo - 14-11-2007 at 07:26 PM

Just bought a wire feed flux core welder, works off a standard 115 volt 15 amp breaker, I think it likes a 20 amp but I haven't managed to pop anything on a 15 amp. welds up to 1/8th inch on a single pass, cost was about $130 can after taxes. I think they may have a couple left if you're serious about getting a welder, nice little unit. easy to use. complete barrow tires with the cheapo barrow rims and bearings are $14 can complete.

NPWfever - 14-11-2007 at 07:43 PM

The one at Ace by me is $210. Where is the welder you are talking about? Is that a hobby welder? The one I was looking at is a step up from a hobby welder. The tires sound good, do you have a link? And I guess my link is busted, oh well.

Pablo - 14-11-2007 at 09:05 PM

http://www.princessauto.com/PAcountry.cfm?CTRY=CAN&INF=h...

The site's a bit of a pain to navigate, but the prices are dirt cheap. Yeah I got the hobby level welder, main reasons are it works on up to 1/8 no problem and it works on a standard wall outlet, so no need to rewire your garage. If you have a 30amp breaker in there then it won't be a problem running a larger welder, but be sure to check first. I got this one because a larger one wouldn't work on my house wiring.

I had no problem whipping together a buggy rack to hold a 100lb buggy with it though.

art_lessing - 14-11-2007 at 11:27 PM

I made my buggy out of scrap metal and black iron pipe fitttings...al in all it cost about $130...the pipe is nice because all I had to do was screw them together adjust everything for the shape and then weld it soild...althought I had to make a custom swan neck for the front out of larger stronger pipe.....check out the pic on PTW page..#106....there is one thing to know though..its called pad point...it deals with the angle of your forks, the rake and the trail....this page it super rad for calculating all of the above...this page saved me from asking many questions when it came to fork geometry....

CHECK IT OUT!

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/advchoppercalc.html


oh and one more very helpful thing...I bought a minibike axel...it is about 8 bucks..plus all the right washers and nuts with extra..came out to be about 19 bucks with shipping......this is a really nice snug fitting 5/8 inch axle with medium/fine threads.....it fits like a glove in the wheel barrow wheel..for my buggy I got the 10" one but there is also an eight inch too..depending on the size of that particular wheel's hub

http://www.mfgsupply.com/

hope this helps

DQ

NPWfever - 15-11-2007 at 05:52 PM

YAY finally settled on a design, will start construction on it Monday. The fork I am making a 45' angle as that is the angle my front tube thing comes off the seat so we will just weld it right onto that. And for my axle I am just going to weld long nuts into the some square tube and bolt the wheels on. Easy enough, and for the front axle I will get some steel rod and have them thread the ends.

Thanks for your help, and expect an instructable soon!

Peas!

NPWfever - 19-11-2007 at 07:21 PM

Well I started it today and got all the steel cut and the seat welded. And I learned how to weld today. Did pretty well actually. Its tons o fun and I am looking at a welder. Of course It's probably not the best idea to learn on my buggy but oh well.:o

NPWfever - 19-11-2007 at 10:39 PM

Here are some pics of it just layed out

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

NPWfever - 19-11-2007 at 10:41 PM

They don't work unless you copy and paste:ticking:

Pablo - 19-11-2007 at 11:53 PM

That's looking a lot better, one suggestion though, for sure, move the foot pegs down so one comes off each side of the forks, With your feet down lower it'll be way more comfortable to ride and probably a bit more stable when you get moving.

NPWfever - 20-11-2007 at 11:35 AM

I am going to see if it works like that and if I need to I can always weld on some pegs. And the downtube angle is really harsh, it is only going to be at about a 15degree angle. It's just sharper because the seat isn't up on wheels.

art_lessing - 20-11-2007 at 07:03 PM

another thing I learned right away....with the foot pegs up like that.....I know because my original design used a kids bike handle bar upside down for foot pegs.......the front wheel can spin like a freestyle bmx bike...and that sucks when you are going twenty and one of your feet comes off the pegs...so I suggest you figure out a way to make stops for the fork so it can't travel 360 degrees...
otherwise you bug looks great....I just came up with a great design for a seat if you want it?

DQ

NPWfever - 20-11-2007 at 08:51 PM

Yeah sure a seat would be great. I'll get some measurements when it's all welded up. I am thinking about taking off that bar and using upside down BMX handlebars with the crossbrace cut out. They would hit the tube and stop, and the pegs would be lower. And thanks for all the help guys!

1oldkid - 22-11-2007 at 07:43 AM

Pic # 113 in the list others have made looks similar to the one I was thinking about...Looks like steering is done with the left hand..?
Quote:
Originally posted by popeyethewelder
making them http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder/?g=33349545

ones I have made http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder/?g=33348430

ones others have made http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder/?g=41859403&cr=7

and

http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder/?g=17244836

that should give you some ideas...

NPWfever - 24-11-2007 at 01:17 AM

I GOT MY WELDER!!! So I started work again. Here are some pics.

K so I can't find the answer to this question in the manual. The welder has a high/low setting or 15/20 amp. To put it on high can I have it in a normal outlet, or do I need to plug it into a 20 amp outlet? If it needs to be 20 how can I tell?

Welder

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

What is done as of now

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

NPWfever - 24-11-2007 at 01:17 AM

links don't work unless you copy and paste

art_lessing - 27-11-2007 at 04:49 PM

by the way I found a better fork calculator

http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/elenk.htm

this one is way easier

DQ

1oldkid - 27-11-2007 at 06:34 PM

Hey, now that's pretty neat!

NPWfever - 28-11-2007 at 07:59 PM

Just need the rear tires and I am set to go. Anyone know where to get cheap buggy style wheels, besides wheelbarrow, at $30 a pop that hurts.

Pablo - 28-11-2007 at 11:31 PM

Well, you could give PL or Libra a shout and get a set of proper rims with the nice durable 20mm bearings.

I've gotten standard barrows complete with cheapo bearings and rubber for $15 a peice for other projects from Princess Auto. I think they do mail order as well.



Just a sidenote, if you're going for Ghetto Cheap, I remember seeing a large number of bmx bikes and tricycles being scrapped in the recycling pile at the local landfill while dumping some stuff off. You may be able to come up with something like that locally, We also have a local "Freecycle" program where people list stuff they're willing to give away to someone who needs it.

BeamerBob - 29-11-2007 at 04:55 AM

You can't hardly tell a 20 amp outlet from a 15. The thing to know is the size breaker that feeds the outlet. The amps will be written on the breaker when you find the one that supplies your outlet. 15 amp breakers can use #14 wire and 20 amps uses #12. If you run the welder set at 20 amps on a 15 amp breaker, it will trip eventually if not right away.

Edit:
Lots of times even if most of your outlets are on a 15 amp circuit, you can find a 20 amp in the garage for freezers, garage door openers and typical garage stuff. Worst case, you could have an electrician run a new circuit on a 20 amp breaker just for the welder. That would be ideal.

NPWfever - 29-11-2007 at 07:23 PM

Well I gave the welder a whirl on the 20 amp setting on the 15 amp circuit, and hasn't tripped even after a good combined 3 hours use, I think I'm fairly safe. And it penetrates alot more. And as far as bike tires, my current buggy has them and I just don't like the feel and the look of them, wider ones are nice. I will look at a couple places by me that has that kinda stuff cheap. There is a junk lawn equipment yard thing by me that will let you take stuff for free. There is a tractor with a set of 15" front tires out there that should go rather nicely with a 13" wheelbarrow. I'll give that a go. :cool2:

Pablo - 29-11-2007 at 11:23 PM

Remember, any tire that fits a 8" rim will fit on a standard barrow, so you could always hit up the junk yard for some barrow rims with the cheapo bearings, then either hit up the local golf course for some used turf/slick tires and mount them on the rims. Anything up to 12" wide will fit a standard barrow rim. 2 ply is best, but 4 ply will work, may need innertubes.

barnes - 3-12-2007 at 03:46 PM

Not to hijack..but I'm looking into making my own snow/land buggy, but I have no welding experince. What kind of welding are you guys using? Are the cheap electric arc welders enough to keep a buggy in one piece? Is it difficult to do itself?

NPWfever - 3-12-2007 at 08:38 PM

Mig or gasless mig (flux core) is super easy to learn, took me about 10 mins but I had a good "teacher" and an auto darkening helmet. If you want to start get a mig, you can get a decent one starting at about $200. DO NOT TOUCH STICK UNLESS YOU WANT TO MAKE YOU LIFE HARD. It is much easier to burn through with stick and much harder to learn. And my welder is producing some very nice welds on 20 amps, I welder to ends of a rod together and stood on it over a gap and it held up fine, just look for a welder that will do at least 1/8 inch steel 1/4 inch is better, and if you can get one that runs off both gas and flux wire. (Here comes popeye) He can answer better.

NPWfever - 3-12-2007 at 11:14 PM

Buggy update! Welding done except for a the rear wheel axle nuts. Seat is still in experimental stages tho.

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

^Frame

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

^Me In Buggy

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

^Packed Down Buggy

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

^Seat Installed

barnes - 4-12-2007 at 03:24 PM

Looks amazing! I love the handlebar method, the same way I was going to try it. The packing method it a great idea. I have no where to store a buggy, and no way of getting it to the beach in one piece. Nice work!

I'm going to head over to the hardware store and talk to them about it. I'm low on funds right now with the holiday, but I'll probably start building in the spring.

Your my age, what do you do to afford the kiting addiction?

Bladerunner - 4-12-2007 at 03:54 PM

Wow , that is coming along well.

My early generation flexi buggy has straight ( low ) rails on the side like yours and I see now why most other designs have the side rail swoop up. If you find your welds don't hold up through the center you could add a rail gaining side support and structural support ?
Once your done pool noodles are a good cheap way to finish + add padding.

Prop's on the stearing method :thumbup:

NPWfever - 4-12-2007 at 08:59 PM

Thanx guys, and another update! Wooooo, its done now. :lol: Yeah I was thinking pipe insulation, as it has adhesive, and I am going to add some side rails on still, just need some more steel. And I love how small it packs up! Ah that's why its sick to design your own buggy. Next is to sew some type of back pack carrying device that it straps onto, so I can ride my bike to the field.

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

http://s240.photobucket.com/albums/ff86/Powerkitetime/?actio...

1oldkid - 4-12-2007 at 09:21 PM

Good job!
Let us know how it works out!:tumble:

NPWfever - 5-12-2007 at 09:34 PM

Well uhhh...the rear wheels exploded going up wind, so need some proper ones though, other than that the 2 min run was fun. Does need some side rails though, that will be tomorrow as well as a trip to the store for a set of wheels.

art_lessing - 6-12-2007 at 12:23 AM

yep gotta get the barrow wheels...they are 20 bucks a pop at home depot....they have a 5/8 axle...and they need to be painted a cool color ....and can you lower your seat to make the side rails higher?

BeamerBob - 6-12-2007 at 04:58 AM

Yeah, I was thinking the first good side load is gonna drag you right off your buggy. After my extensive 25 minutes of buggy experience, I realized after getting out of the buggy that I had bruised my leg from wedging it against the side rails. I'm sure I would've been skittering across the sand without the side support.

Bladerunner - 6-12-2007 at 10:21 AM

I tried pipe insulation. While it's better than nothing it doesn't provide much padding. Pipe insulation is a place to start but I think you'll end up going noodles !

archkiter - 6-12-2007 at 10:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by snowbird
I tried pipe insulation. While it's better than nothing it doesn't provide much padding. Pipe insulation is a place to start but I think you'll end up going noodles !


Ditto. I tried pipe insulation and then found some pool noodles. The pool noodles were much puffier - cheap too!

NPWfever - 6-12-2007 at 11:09 AM

Yeah I guess I will go with noodles. And it will be easier to add side rails so I don't lose any clearance. I'll just throw a towel over the seat and weld a piece of tubing down from the backrest to the front. And then throw a noodle over it and maybe a piece of fabric from the rail to the seat.

kitemaker4 - 6-12-2007 at 02:05 PM

Pool noodles is the way to go for padding. They come in different sizes other than it is off season for pool supplies at Walmart now. I guess a pool supply store would keep them in stock all year round. Just wrap them up good with duct tape and them make some covers and then you are set to go.

Susan

NPWfever - 6-12-2007 at 02:57 PM

I did see some REALLY thick pipe insulation laying in my garage (only like 3 feet but if I can find some that might work, and it would look OK without covers. I also have a noodle so I will compare them, maybe put one on one side and one on the other and see which one works better.

barnes - 6-12-2007 at 03:07 PM

Basiclly, a rolling foam pit. Sounds fun to me!

NPWfever - 8-12-2007 at 12:11 PM

WeeeEEEEE!!!! lol no wind today so I think I will pick up some wheels and weld on those crossbeams, and no noodles in the *almost* dead of winter so I'll have to go with foam insulation for now. Hey barnes, where are you located? I really want to meet my clone!!! :frog:

Pablo - 8-12-2007 at 01:12 PM

How snug are the side rails, noodles and pipe insulation do well for most buggies, if you want a snugger fit, roll bar padding from a car parts shop has the hole inside off centre, so you get 1/4 inch of padding on the outside of the rails, but you get 2" of padding on the inside, effectively snugging down the buggy.

NPWfever - 8-12-2007 at 01:55 PM

noodles will be just about right, pretty snug right now. About 3 inches either side.

barnes - 8-12-2007 at 06:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by NPWfever
Hey barnes, where are you located? I really want to meet my clone!!! :frog:


I'm in the Philadelphia area. If your anywhere on the east coast, theres a chance we can meet up and go fly. :tumble:

I got my first bugging experince today, and now I'm looking more into building a buggy. I'm tempted by a PVC buggy. No welding, and easy to make collapsible to fit in my Ford Tarus. Not sure how stable or pricey it will be.

NPWfever - 8-12-2007 at 06:33 PM

OMG YOU ARE MY CLONE!!!!!!!!! I swear by PVC!!!!! I don't think it would work too well unless you used like 2.5" and the whole thing would have to be glued together. You would be far better off getting a welder and some steel. Bummer i live in colorado, but I go out to long island once a summer for like 2-3 weeks, and I am seriously looking forward to kitesurfing this summer. I would be happy to measure my buggy and send you "instructions" if you want to clone mine. How tall and how much do you weigh? If you make mine it comes apart into 2 tires an axle a seat and the downtube and frontfork. Fits in our sonata fine. Expect to spend about $50 on steel bolts nuts and such. And then where ever you get wheels the cheapest. should cost about $100, not bad at all. :singing::singing::singing::singing::singing::singing::singing::singing::singing:

barnes - 8-12-2007 at 06:54 PM

Its like looking in a mirror...but if the mirror only said words!

Let me know when your in Long Island. I'll be there. I'm super excited for kite surfing too. Have you gotten lessons or anything yet? If not, let me know. I'll hook you up with the best teacher in Jersey. :yes: (Lessons are more important then I thought...but good news is, since you've flown kites before, you can probably condense the 3 lesson system into 1 or 2...I did.)

I don't want to copy you too much. I'll design it from scratch. Start CADing it up. I'll look into other PVC buggies, see what they did, and start looking for an Arc welder on craigslist.

I'm 6' 150 pounds I think...

Pablo - 8-12-2007 at 07:15 PM

Dunno if there's ever been a decent PVC pipe buggy. I originally bought a stick welder for $50 and you can get enough metal to make a bug for another $40, So I'd stick to proven materials. Even my new wirefeed welder only ran me $130 new.

NPWfever - 8-12-2007 at 07:21 PM

My buggy shud work for you, the front connection would need to be a bit stronger tho. But if you don't want to copy, at least copy the rear axle fold up and front fork fold up design. Never kitesurfed before, but I no a guy there who is in NZ doing it everyday off of his yacht, LUCKY BASTARD!!!!! He is there untill feb and has been there since oct. :mad: This guy shud be able to get me going, then I will go out on a directional and maybe with an ARC i may be getting soon, or be balzy and use my ace. I would probably be the first person to use a pansh for KS. lol And as far as an ARC unless you have welded before, stay away. Drop the extra 100 and get a wirefeed, I learned in an hour. Any Q's you have about welding PM popeye or me.

NPWfever - 8-12-2007 at 07:27 PM

barnes, do u have an AIM?

jantie - 26-12-2007 at 06:15 AM

@NPWfever;

looking good, keep it up!!

looking at all you're pics i noticed that you don't wear a helmet.
i strongly advice that you are going to..!! (preferably a full-face)
you will not be the first and certanly not be the last that hurts his head on his own buggy during an unwanted exit. not to mension the surface that you ride on..

NPWfever - 26-12-2007 at 08:11 AM

Yeah most of the pics were in low wind days for better photography
if i really start to get going I have a ski helmet i wear especialy (cant spell) for jumps, my dad has an old motorcycle helmet but its too big :sniff: Thanks tho! unfortunatly the bug hasnt gotten a good run yet, couldnt find proper tires, got a $100 gift card to home depot so i might go that route, or find something somewhere. And we have had snow on the ground for the past 3 weeks, so there is too much, and ive been snowkiting. :P

kullas - 26-12-2007 at 12:39 PM

Lots of tires and wheels here at a good price. There is 5 pages of them

Northern Tool