Bladerunner - 20-11-2007 at 11:08 AM
We have a new player in town and all of North America I think ! A nice young couple from Europe. They are rep'ing for Sky Country ! 
I hoped to get some more time on the kites before my down time but it didn't
happen. Now Scudley has recieved a 10m I will have a chance to review the 5, 7 and 10 reflex in the new year :tumble:
I have only had a chance to static fly the 5m so far 
My 5 minute impression was :
VERY well made with an unfamiliar sail material. Very slick and crispy but not crepe paper thin. the next thing to jump out was an unfamiliar super
tight slippy mesh over the air inlets. These must be the ANSWER to snowballs or fine sand in your kite . I didn't pay attention to the lines and
handles but if they had a problem I didn't notice.
Most folks who fly this kite end up saying that the name Reflex is a good one.
I was flying my 5 ace that day ( on a bar ) and the 5m Skycountry handled in a far more controled manor ( on handles ) . Far better for a beginer. It
sat with far less lift and was far less twitchy over head. The power came on smoothly and dramatically . The ace feels like it has more power across
the whole window and my flexi is more snatchy . For a kite with a high aspect it acted far more friendly than I expected. It responded to brake input
with a strange " knowing " type manor. I can see how Egan could fly this as a stunter. I have seen him do it with a Sami. I have never flown a Sami
but guess it may be the closest match.
The bridle is adjustable so I expect that the lift can be dialed up. As it was set it made for a great buggy engine and friendly kite for newer folks.
With lift turned up I can see how this kite was also designed to work on snow + ATB.
I look forward to getting riding on these kites !
Here is a review from our local site + a link to the website. ( I'm not the Ken in the review ) (( nor am I the Ken refered to in the following
rants. That Ken is a FAR better kiter than I am ))
http://skycountry.ca/
I stole this from my review on www.racekites.com. I have to change one thing: I am now associated with SkyCountry. I have agreed to provide some language assistance for their
web site. I did buy a 7m and now have a 10m. I still think they have a great product, but feel that you should be aware of my tie to the company.
INTRO
Just bought this kite for my girl friend. She had been trying to master the buggy for a couple of weeks and was not having much luck with any of my
kites, (3m' firebee, 5m firebee force, 7 m bullet). She could not go up wind and and was always blowing the turn. She was getting very frustrated and
some what po'ed when a friend, Ken, showed up with a new kite these Russian paraglider pilots asked him to try and sell. We had been giving him a load
of crap about his "lada" kite. I asked if my girl friend could try the new kite. "No problem" was the reply. The girl friend takes the kite and in
less than five minutes is tearing across our local field and doing power slide turns. She is laughing her head off and screaming yeehaw. (This is a
mid forties, mother of two, both of whom are in their late teens. Although she has static flown my kites for a couple of years, her previous adventure
sport was quilting.) The tourists looked on with amazement as she chased after, and kept up with, Ken in his buggy flying a Butane 7.8. When Ken came
into the landing zone, I bought the kite.
The Kite:
Five meters with a 5:1 aspect ratio with 32 cells. I have no idea what the material is, but it is nice and crisp,( I will assume that as Sky Country
is a paraglider company that it is east bloc parachute cloth). The cell openings are reinforced and screened with fine mesh to keep out dirt. The
windward face of the kite is white and the back is white and orange with a blue lighting bolt. The GF, a quilter, was impressed with the quality of
the workmanship.
The kite comes with a nice, generously sized back pack with a compression zipper and draw string closure designed so you cannot snag the kite in the
zipper no matter how cramped and cold your hands are.
I believe kites do not come with lines or handles, but Ken tossedthe ones we were flying on in as Becky was having such a good time.
Flying the Reflex:
The Reflexis aptly named as flying it is almost reflexive. At 5:1 the Reflex is a very high aspect kite. It does not fly like one. It does not: luff
in the smallest wind shift; overfly the window; have sudden massive changes in power as it travels across the window. It does: fly straight to zenith
from launch even in very light winds; sit calmly at the windows edge and zenith waiting for your input; provide input to the brakes without requiring
the strength of Atlas; turn snappily with the afore mentioned input to the brake; increase the power with increasing kite speed.
The GF loves her new kite and can not be removed from my buggy. On Friday she exchanged flights with a local stunt and Revolution flying legend. She
got to fly his Rev', he got the Reflex. Becky did not have much luck with the Rev, but Egan tested the Reflex's reflexes. He had the kite doing things
I would not have believed possible with a foil.
After spending fifteen minutes showing me that I know jack #@%$#! about kite control, Egan handed the kite back saying, "Nice kite. I like it." Now
seeing as Egan has been flown to competitions around the world and has designed some very revolutionary stunt kites and originated some amazing
tricks, these words are not without weight.
Its Uses:
This kite is a great buggy engine. It is fast and nimble. It does not require a lot of strength on the brakes to control it. The kite is so easy to
control I think a beginner would quickly get the hang of it, but I hesitate to recommend a five meter kiter to someone with no experience.
The kite loves to be flown and generates much of its power by moving fast. For this reason I suspect boarders, I do not board, would find the kite
lacking in lift. (It maybe that my kite was tuned for speed.) Jumping with a kite this fast could be very tricky but the larger models may be more
suitable. Like boarding, I am a little old to be very interested in jumping.
This is a kite for those who like, or need, to use finesse rather than brute strength to make their buggy move fast. Static flyers will enjoy its
stunning control and great power scuds as it speeds across the window.
The GF says the kite is great for women as it is easy to spill the air by applying the brakes and she can generate "almost" as much power she wants by
moving the kite through the window. On Sunday, she demonstrated this at our local tidal flat with a brilliant downwind high speed run of about two
miles swinging the kite from side to side counter-steering the buggy leaving a sine wave curve buggy track down the beach. She now wants a buggy and a
gps to see how fast she is going.
Value for money
I am not sure what the cost of the kite will be retail. The GF has the only one in North America. I am hoping to amend this as soon as I decide if I
need the 10 or the 7 m model. If the costs are as anticipated, this kite will be an excellent value option for those looking for a fast, light
responsive kite.
When I saw how much fun the GF was having I had to buy her the kite and seeing how much fun she was having, Ken gave me the kite at cost as well as
tossing in the lines. I do not how it is any where else but in Vancouver BC, power kiters are a great bunch of people - Thanks Ken.
Scudley
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Last edited by scudleydoright : 11-09-2007 at 05:16 PM.
Pablo - 20-11-2007 at 09:37 PM
Hey Ken, when you have it out again I'll race you upwind. I flew the 5m SkyCountry, good build quality, looks nice, fairly fast, only complaint is
it's upwind performance, I kept going back and forth between the 4m Brooza and the 5m Skycountry. I kept getting stuck at the down wind end of the
park with the SC, and made it back in 1 tack with the smaller Brooza. Found the same thing at NABX. Great cross wind, very quick downwind, but upwind
was hurting.
Hopefully with the adjustable bridal they've solved this problem. Apparently the older ones were shrunken para sails, do you know if they've gone with
a kite specific design for the new ones?
Scudley - 20-11-2007 at 09:52 PM
A follow up to the review.
The GF is now pretty adept at buggying and has completely taken mine over. I had to get a new one, PL Comp XR+. Thanks to Tim and DS, who were very
generous with their buggies while I waited for mine. The Libre Special is now officially hers.
I got a 7m Reflex in July, very pretty white face, blue and green back with white lightening bolt. Not quite as friendly as the 5m, but very nice, a
lot harder on the arms, reminder to self: must get harness. First day I had it, I let pick me from sitting. I really did not expect top find myself
5 feet in the air.
I recently received a 10m Reflex. When I first saw it I was stunned, the face was this weird day glow yellow/green, see my avatar, and the back
blue, with a white lightening bolt. I thought whoa, but in the air it looks pretty damned good. Takes a nice photo.
The wind has only been mildly cooperative: pretty much dead calm, <1m/s, or a howling gale, or its raining. I have done a little buggying with it.
Seems to pull pretty well in the low stuff <2 m/s. SkyCountry says the top end is 8 m/s (29 kmph), but I think I will let you try
that.
Our small flying field is pretty slick right now, half underwater, and your wheels are well lubed with goose grease so even in low wind there is a lot
of side skidding. When you start to make your turn it can be quite a while after you kick the wheel over before you actually turn. So I have not
really been able to put the kite through its paces in the buggy.
I have been static flying it. DirtSlide and I have been working on kite ballet, DS with his 7.8 Butane and me with the 10m Reflex. You have to see
our pin wheels. The Butane is a little quicker in the turn but not hugely so.
The other people who have flown it seem to think it is a pretty good kite. B-Boy was doing some very nice tricks on his ATB in very low winds. Greg
had it out in the buggy and was moving in wind that barely moved cigarette smoke.
When we get some nice steady low speed wind and a drier field, I am sure that my new kite please all those who fly it. ArchKiter, if you are coming
up this way, we can probably arrange a test ride with either a 5, a 7 or a 10m Reflex or perhaps all three. Someone will have a board or buggy for
you. Unfortunately, as far as I know there are only 4 Reflex(es) in North America and all of them are in Vancouver. It is only a 12 hour drive.
S
3m FireBee
3m Sami
5m Reflex
5.3m FireBee Force
7m Reflex
7m Bullet
8m Jojo Rage
10m Reflex
ripsessionkites - 20-11-2007 at 10:31 PM
I've flown the Reflex 10m in light winds, i mean light winds. Its a very forgiving kite, and highly stable for a race type kite. In those light winds
I managed to pull off one slow 360, and got going to probably ~15mph.
I've used the Reflex 7m for land boarding, its got lift for jumping.
The bridle system has adjustable knots for the AOA. IMO, it flies best at the setting it comes from factory. It flies fast across the wind window, and
doesnt luff at the edge of the wind window. User Friendly.
If you're in the market for a race type kite, minus the huge $$$, SkyCountry would be something to look at.
I'll race you upwind!?! do you want to do it going forwards or backwards?!?
We could play around GP Lake :D
Bladerunner - 20-11-2007 at 11:38 PM
Looks to me like they have 3 styles and have been making
" kites " since 2000. Paragliders since 1995. Since there 3 kites are all quite different I get the feeling they know the difference between them and
paragliders. The way that this kite responded to brake input tells me they know a lot about kite design. Just like Ozone and Flysurfer know the
difference!
I can't speak about the upwind performance personally. YET !!! From what I see it is more than acceptable. I haven't heard of anyone else complain
about having upwind trouble with them :?: Becky seems to roll back into camp no problem with hers.
I think the kite is designed more as an all rounder so expect it wouldn't match a full race kites upwind performance. What it lacks in the race end it
more than makes up for in it's friendly nature :!:
GlideGuy - 21-11-2007 at 08:57 PM
While kites aren't subject to any sort of certification process or any type of industry agreed upon quality control standards, many paraglider
manufacturer's, who also build kites, work towards the high quality construction standards that DHV certified paragliders are build to.
It's worth noting that although Sky Country has been building Paragliders since '95, they don't have a single DHV certified glider in their line-up,
and they only have one CEN certified glider.
I have some serious doubts about the quality of Sky Country's products just based on their inability to meet DHV or CEN standards for their
paragliders.
Bladerunner - 21-11-2007 at 09:05 PM
I don't know for gliders and not a whole lot about kites but is it possible that DHV and CEN certification aren't the " norm " in the Ukraine ? Sounds
like they use AFNOR and EN ?? Even so if they want to go international I find it odd they wouldn't get certified that way?
It would be nice if they had something like that for power kites !
Scudley - 22-11-2007 at 12:25 AM
I do not represent or speak SkyCountry in any way. I am not even sure why I taking the time to do this, but;
I believe these standards were not the norm for the ex-eastern block. Until very recently SkyCountry was only available in the ex-eastern bloc, and
certification was not necessary. As certification testing appears to have to be carried in Switzerland, they were an expensive luxury for a small
company not selling into the market requiring the tests. Prior to the introduction to the EC and North America the products were tested by the
company using the AFNOR test procedures and met the standards under these tests. As the tests were not carried out independently in western Europe,
they were not certified.
It should be pointed out the EC is routinely criticized, by non-1st world nations and many NGO's, for using certification and standards as
protectionist trade barriers to keep non-EC products from reaching their markets. I am not saying this is the case for paragliders, but they do have
the reputation for this in other products.
I worked on the CE certification, equivalent to CSA, for a piece of industrial equipment. Tthe required testing cost over $100,000, not small change.
I should that our piece of equipment was worth over $350,000 and it was still a large financial burden for the company.
Now there is a coincidence, as I was writing the above, Denis from Sky Country Canada called to tell me the Sky Country Ukraine's new web site is up,
mostly available in English.
http://www.sky-country.com
Quoted from their new web site:
SCorpion2's aspect ratio is one of the highest in AFNOR Standard class: 5.81. Of course this means that SCorpion2 performs as a real Performance wing.
This glider easily contests the modern DHV 2 / AFNOR Performance machines while keeping the high passive safety of an AFNOR Standard canopy.
DiSCovery3 is a modern Intermediate paraglider with EN B sertification.
SCorpion2's aspect ratio is one of the highest in AFNOR Standard class: 5.81. Of course this means that SCorpion2 performs as a real Performance wing.
This glider easily contests the modern DHV 2 / AFNOR Performance machines while keeping the high passive safety of an AFNOR Standard canopy.
MyStiC has passed the EN pretests with the D result. The D mark was obtained only in 2 tests so the MyStiC is very safe for a high performance glider.
Denis tells me MyStiC apparently failed the collapse test as the pilot in Switzerland was unable to collapse paraglider, too much pressure on the
leading edge. The test pilot was not strong enough to collapse it. Denis said this is a competition sport 'chute and that many companies do not
certify their competition 'chutes, (I have no idea if this is true as I have little interest in paragliders). For those interested the results of
these tests are available.
I am new to this forum. I would like to compliment Glideguy and Ripsession for showing on they posts that they are in the kite business. It shows
that they are ethical businessmen. It is nice to see this disclosure as it does not hide the fact they may have a financial gain from from what they
say. I am not saying by any means that they base their writing on that potential gain, but that I thank for them having the courtesy to tell us all
that the potential is there. I believe it would be a pleasure to do business with either of you.
I would also like to thank Ken, for having the courtesy of asking my permission to use my writing.
S
KiteProject - 22-11-2007 at 10:51 AM
Their website doesn't have any prices. How are these kites priced?
ripsessionkites - 22-11-2007 at 08:12 PM
IMO, its a good kite "race style" for someone on a budget. I hope they will improve on the 2 things.
1. The kite bridle, it would be nice to see them use Dyneema or Spectra.
2. Kite Handles, they seem to be too big even for someone with a x-large glove.