Power Kite Forum

BEST Depowerable for 8-25 mph wind range?

firewirepl - 22-11-2007 at 11:50 AM

OK Guys,

I need to know what your opinions are on the best depowerable kite out there. I would like large wind range of around 8- 25 or something like that.

The reason is want to know is that I want a all around kite for water boarding mountain boarding and snow boarding.

I was thinking flysurfer pyscho 3 13m or something or pulse 2 (anyone know how good this is and what the difference is compared the the psycho?)

I know they are expensive, but are they worth it compared to ozone or flexifoil?

I want it to have the same lift as a blade IV and power also when theres no depower on.

Let me know :)

DenisLaMenace - 22-11-2007 at 02:28 PM

I think you might consider the Flysrufer Speed2

will have a bit more lift and depower than Pyscho3 according to their specs on flysurfer.com

Pulse2 is supposed to get same depower range as Speed2 as it is the same bridle+pulley setup for the lower apsect ratio so may be less lifty than Speed2

If you want to kite in 8mp on water, consider the Speed2 SilverArrow, this is the ultimated lightwind machine out there

acampbell - 22-11-2007 at 03:58 PM

For a relatively affordable (compared to Flysurfer) tool for your stated wind range, consider a Peter Lynn Scorpion. Great amounts of de-power and a stupid amount of adjustability. Between the center power strap inside the kite, the turning straps inside the tips, the adjustable tip bridles and the normal pull-pull adjuster at the bar, it will be a while before I figure out every combination. Oh yeah, and play with pigtail extensions on the rear lines (thanks Pablo), you have even more range.

Easy to fly and has let-go-of-the-bar-and-eat-a-sandwitch stability.

For water and snow, consider the 16m. It's a lot for a land board, but as stated, you can turn the power down a lot.

firewirepl - 22-11-2007 at 07:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
For a relatively affordable (compared to Flysurfer) tool for your stated wind range, consider a Peter Lynn Scorpion. Great amounts of de-power and a stupid amount of adjustability. Between the center power strap inside the kite, the turning straps inside the tips, the adjustable tip bridles and the normal pull-pull adjuster at the bar, it will be a while before I figure out every combination. Oh yeah, and play with pigtail extensions on the rear lines (thanks Pablo), you have even more range.

Easy to fly and has let-go-of-the-bar-and-eat-a-sandwitch stability.

For water and snow, consider the 16m. It's a lot for a land board, but as stated, you can turn the power down a lot.


it seems like its shaped a lot like a C, istnt that less power.

acampbell - 22-11-2007 at 07:31 PM

For a given size, arguabley, compared to a bow or open cell. But the PL twinskin has greater de-power than a traditional C, so you can size it a bit bigger and still have control. It's a whole different critter.

Pablo - 22-11-2007 at 08:38 PM

Important numbers for the Scorpion, something like 80% depower, more depower with the pigtails, gust munching, huge wind range. I've got the 16m, I'm 250lbs and fly it regularly on land in anything between 10mph and 25mph, on the water in 15mph up to 30mph. I've flown it in the buggy in 5 gusting to 25mph as well and gotten a ride. Been out when guys are on 2m foils with it. Super stable in the gusty stuff and you'll only have to launch it once a day. It'll park overhead for the rest of it. Pulls better than the 18m Phantoms, turns as quick as the 13m Venom. Lift is enormous, float is wicked. Then I can let the sheeting strap out and hand it to my wife for her to fly no problem.

Downside, under 10-12mph it's best left in the bag. Time to fly an open cell foil.

Ashe - 22-11-2007 at 09:10 PM

I agree with buzz - the only kites that will be water relaunchable, have a bottom end below 10mph, and be depowerable will be the big Flysurfer Speeds - if you're below 180lbs, a 1.5 modded 17m Speed1 or 15m Speed2, if you're heavier, you'll be better served by the 19m Speed2. The Silverarrows are even better, mainly because they don't fight their material weight as much as the standard cloth - however I've seen it said that they only really buy you an extra knot on the bottom end, so the margin may or may not be worth it for you. Also, concensus seems to be for folks over 200lbs, the SA2 is not benefitting you on water over the Speed2, but having an SA1, I definitely like the lighter material on land as it stays up through most lulls.

It's really your low-end requirement limiting you there. In addition to my Air Evo and Scopion, I used to fly a 13m Psycho III - and none of them have the bottom end of a big Blade.

Ashe

firewirepl - 22-11-2007 at 10:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Ashe
I agree with buzz - the only kites that will be water relaunchable, have a bottom end below 10mph, and be depowerable will be the big Flysurfer Speeds - if you're below 180lbs, a 1.5 modded 17m Speed1 or 15m Speed2, if you're heavier, you'll be better served by the 19m Speed2. The Silverarrows are even better, mainly because they don't fight their material weight as much as the standard cloth - however I've seen it said that they only really buy you an extra knot on the bottom end, so the margin may or may not be worth it for you. Also, concensus seems to be for folks over 200lbs, the SA2 is not benefitting you on water over the Speed2, but having an SA1, I definitely like the lighter material on land as it stays up through most lulls.

It's really your low-end requirement limiting you there. In addition to my Air Evo and Scopion, I used to fly a 13m Psycho III - and none of them have the bottom end of a big Blade.

Ashe


im 200 pds and will mostly do mountain boarding. Do you think a 13m'2 instead of a 19m'2 will be better for aroun 8-25?

What about a modified depowerable blade 8.5 iv?

firewirepl - 22-11-2007 at 11:06 PM

speed 2 versus psycho 3?

Ashe - 23-11-2007 at 07:08 AM

That's really apples to oranges. The best I can say is that the Speed would be better for the 8-12mph of the range you specified, and the Psycho would be better from 12mph-25mph. The Speed could probably take you to 20mph+ on land, and 25mph+ on water (or land if you're insane) - but the Psycho would be way more fun at that end of the range. Conversely, on pavement, hard packed dirt, or low cut (golf course low) grass - the Psycho could possibly get you moving at 9/10 mph - but the Speed would be a parS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-n'ride there while the Psycho would have to be worked like mad.

Keep in mind that most of your Flysurfer 3-kite quivers (low/mid/high) have both a 19 Speed and a 13 Psycho for riders of your weight. I'd pick the one that will serve my most common wind conditions - here in Indiana, we average 8-12 mph - thus my low end kites (the 10m Blade I had, and my Speed and big NPW now) rather than my midrange kites serve as my "main kites" - there are simply more days I can be out on those than my Air Evo or Scorpion. Were I on the coast, it'd probably be reversed.

As for modding your Blade - from what I understand, that will give you something on par with a 10m Ozone Manta - so you will give up some low-end to gain the depowerability which in turn will add alot more upper end as well as a measure of safety.

Ashe

firewirepl - 23-11-2007 at 10:10 AM

what would you say about the depower system of the speed2 versus the psycho3?

firewirepl - 23-11-2007 at 11:01 AM

i heard the fls is better and it lasts longer then the speed 2's

powerzone - 23-11-2007 at 01:20 PM

i dont think 1 kite could cover 8-25 mph winds... that is not reallistic. when it is windy, you always want to select the kite that is in the MIDDLE of its wind range. then you have the best performance for the particular wind conditions.

for the Flysurfer depower systems:

Speed2 compared to Psycho3 the mixer is slightly different... 3 pulleys per side opposed to 2. this allows smaller B movement than with a 2 pulley system. if you look at the lineplan... the B row on the Speed2 is closer to the LE than the P3 or Pulse. if you allow B to move too far past A when depowered, you get an unstable kite that front stalls. you could limit the travel on B relative to A with a WAC line but then B lines go slack when sheeted out . the speed2 and pulse2 depower systems are designed for those canopies, and will work well on Blades and other High AR kites or for bridle layouts where the distance from the LE to the B row is short.

hope that was clear.... ok moving on:

the FLS and FDS are safety systems... not in-flight depower. the work well to land the kites solo as well as in an emergency.

FDS is more effective IMO... FLS puts too much strain on one main line causing it to stretch. also the kite can Sprial around and thrash the flagged out side. i recommend the FDS over the FLS.

to answer your initial question directly... i agree with the SilverArrow option. once you've flown one you will never use a large kite without SA fabric. its cool to fly a 17m kite in 2 -3 knots of wind.

USA_Eli_A - 23-11-2007 at 03:44 PM

MAN i wish the vision was released. 8-28 is a huge wind range. you should think in the 15-28mph range. Get out there and demo some stuff. I use my Mantas in winds such as those. Look for some reviews, just google them, kites that aren't 100% before they are offered to the public are DANGEROUS. I never hear anything like that about ozone, flexi, or PL. Try asking this question on http://appozone.com

Pablo - 23-11-2007 at 05:51 PM

Well, if the new Ozone stuff is anything like the 14m Frenzy I rode, they'd be a killer option for a snow kite, I'd still consider using one of them for say 12mph to 25mph, then go with a large fixed bridal kite like the blade for the bottom end, keep it fixed power, probably run it on a cross over bar, it'll get you going in the 6-12mph range no problem.

USA_Eli_A - 23-11-2007 at 08:57 PM

:thumbup: that's the ticket really. Ozone depower kite or the flexi option. So much range. And totally safe!

Pablo - 23-11-2007 at 10:00 PM

I think they'd go great as a set, by the time you get a large enough depowerable kite to get the most out of the bottom end you'll be hating the bus in the higher winds. I think you'd get a wicked ride with a slightly smaller depowerable, possibly in the 10-12m range, then keep a huge open cell foil on fixed bridal for those days when the depowerable just won't get it done. By large I'm reffering to the 9m+ range, I'm 250lbs and have flown kites that I've got to put away when the wind hits 10mph for safety reasons.

firewirepl - 23-11-2007 at 10:13 PM

i have a blade iv 8.5 now, u think keep keep that for the low winds? And get maybe a speed 2 12/15 m for the higer winds, or wait for the pulse2?

Pablo - 23-11-2007 at 10:58 PM

If you've got a 8.5m, keep it for low winds, it'll be hard to get that out of a depowerable, then look at something for higher winds. If you like FS and are thinking of water then that's probably a good way to go, it'd also go good with a PL because the blade bottom end will work nicely with the PL top end.

I think Eli had some nice depowerable foils going for fairly cheap as well. May be worth looking at.

firewirepl - 23-11-2007 at 11:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pablo
If you've got a 8.5m, keep it for low winds, it'll be hard to get that out of a depowerable, then look at something for higher winds. If you like FS and are thinking of water then that's probably a good way to go, it'd also go good with a PL because the blade bottom end will work nicely with the PL top end.

I think Eli had some nice depowerable foils going for fairly cheap as well. May be worth looking at.


what do you recommend out of the 3 FS and what sizes then. I guess i might keep my blade iv 8.5...i wish i could have sold it for some money thought..

SecondWind - 24-11-2007 at 08:39 AM

Any damage to the 8.5m Blade IV? I know there are a few people here looking for one!

firewirepl - 24-11-2007 at 11:23 AM

no the blade iv has been taken out 3 times, it pretty much brand new. I got it 3 weeks ago.

powerzone - 24-11-2007 at 11:38 AM

Quote:
Quote:
what do you recommend out of the 3 FS and what sizes then. I guess i might keep my blade iv 8.5...i wish i could have sold it for some money thought..


we need to know your "stats":

weight, board size, windspeed, conditions, fresh/salt water, experience, etc....

then we can properly suggest a kite.

remember to pick a reasonable wind range

Pablo - 25-11-2007 at 12:21 AM

That's the problem, while there is kites that'll cover 8mph to 25mph, most of them will really be hurting on one end of the range or the other, I really think it's pointing towards 2 kites.

Bladerunner - 25-11-2007 at 08:48 AM

Pab's

It seems to me that you are getting very nearly that out of the Scorpian ? I suppose it is the 25 that's too much.
What would you suggest is it's range with pigtails and a 200+ body ? How about with my size ( 140 -150 lbs )

Pablo - 25-11-2007 at 11:52 AM

That's the problem, yes I can get that whole range out of the Scorpion, and it'll handle the top end no problem for a big kite, but it's funner to be flying a smaller kite in that sort of wind because of the quicker turning speed. And yes the 16m Scorpion will get me going in 8mph on the buggy, it's fun getting it inflated and airbourn in low wind, there's ways, but it's no longer in the fun catagory.

While one kite will do it, I think it's $$$ better spent on 2 kites, one well suited for say 14mph-25mph, probably a good depowerable, and then a large open cell foil for the bottom end. You've all seen the 13m Century or the 16m RM+ in low winds, even the 8.5 or 9m Blades do quite well in the light stuff.

powerzone - 25-11-2007 at 10:27 PM

well said "Pabs", i concur

Taper123 - 28-11-2007 at 09:56 AM

I cheat and use a cordless leaf blower for inflation on low wind days for my Scorpion.

Great kites, but a definet learning curve to launching and the how to get them into the air. But once in the air, you can just let go and forget about them... or pull in on the bar and WHOOSH!!!

Bladerunner - 28-11-2007 at 06:24 PM

I just noticed that the wind rating for the Blade IV 4.9m is 7 to 25mph. It matches your call but I don't think it's THE answer ! + it's not a depower.