Power Kite Forum

PL Arcs vs. Flysurfer

barnes - 16-12-2007 at 07:50 PM

I was wondering what the main pros and cons of the PL Arcs versus the Flysurfers.

I still can't make up my mind what kind of kite to buy!!

Pablo - 16-12-2007 at 08:20 PM

In a bucket

FS, wicked kite, awesome all around, solid low wind performance, no auto zenith, not as gust absorbing as the PL.

PL, wicked gust absorbtion, auto zenith makes learning super easy, down side, low wind performance truly sucks.


In normal conditions they're both incredibly brilliant kites.

DenisLaMenace - 16-12-2007 at 08:28 PM

Pablo

would it be fare to say that FS are easier to launch

barnes - 16-12-2007 at 08:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by buzz
Pablo

would it be fare to say that FS are easier to launch


I see we aren't being bias here, thanks!

I like PL due to price point, but my landlocked area would like a more low wind able kite. Tough decision...

canuck - 16-12-2007 at 10:09 PM

Pablo and Buzz are right on (based on everything I have read).

It is a tough decision. Either way, you will end up with an awesome kite. I had narrowed my choice down to PL vs Flysurfer too when looking to broaden my quiver for kitesurfing. I am landlocked too but it is windy and gusty and so gust absorbtion was a higher priority than low wind performance. Auto-zenith sold me on the PL - I ski (snow & water) and having a kite that you can launch and then park on a ground stake or an ice screw sounded better than laying everything out, getting on the skis, then trying to launch (time will tell).

Since you have a 3m and a 5m now, the jump in size with a PL to get your low wind performance might make Flysurfer an easier step. I found there is a big learning curve going from small open cell fixed bridle foils on handles to large closed cell depower foils on control bars. If there is any way you can try before you buy, do it.

Enjoy

lunchbox - 17-12-2007 at 12:08 AM

I too would agree with everything that has been said...both are great kites.

Some additional considerations -

Flysurfer - complex bridle, could become tangled if not put away properly. More points of failure. Faster set up time (if no tangles to deal with) and pack down.

Peter Lynn - Longer set up time. No bridles, 4 lines, very simple and effective.

Both have great depower capabilities,,,probably give the edge to the Flysurfer however.

Either way, you'll be happy with either.

Have fun!

Bladerunner - 17-12-2007 at 07:27 AM

Flysurfer = Pricey

Peter Lynn = some amazing deals

You get what you pay for !

domdino - 17-12-2007 at 08:40 AM

In my opinion... the performance on the current peter lynn's are no match for flysurfers, maybe that will change with the Synergy...

Everyone praises the auto zenith lots on peter lynns, and when you're learning it is a really nice feature to have, how ever, most people progress and feel like the peter lynn isn't quite cutting it enough and want a little more (especially us water based folks) then the autozenith you've always relied on kind of bites back at you and you'll find you've kind of got into bad habits of leaving the kite over your head or not redirecting properly which causes problems on other kites!

Still, if you're happy with peter lynns then i guess you could stick with them, but i like to try everything :)

The other thing that used to annoy me about my peter lynns was their bar pressure... serious tennis elbow after a session...

powerzone - 17-12-2007 at 08:43 AM

they both have their places in the world...

PL gusty inland (better in smaller sizes)

FS low wind and hangtime

gotta have both !!

barnes - 17-12-2007 at 02:50 PM

I'm landlocked as it is, so PL Arcs sound like the right choice. Not to mention the better price and locals who can teach me how to use one.

Thanks for the help everyone.

DenisLaMenace - 17-12-2007 at 02:57 PM

you should check with brian lee, he rides FS, and I think is not too far from you, may be he can point you where to try FS

barnes - 17-12-2007 at 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by buzz
you should check with brian lee, he rides FS, and I think is not too far from you, may be he can point you where to try FS


Brian is a great guy, and will surely let me give his a try. Learned this first hand at our Mini Wildwood Buggy Bash when he gave me a shot on his Manta. :tumble: (Thanks Brian!)

But considering I want to fly these in PA, I'd like to have a good gust absorbing kite, not to mention I havn't had a great deal of time under a depowerable kite, so the auto-zenith will be godsend when I'm learning, and strapping into my snowboard bindings.

I'm starting to think that the PL Arc 1120 might be an older kite, but the best for my price point...

barnes - 18-12-2007 at 04:34 AM

Uh oh, I found a great deal on a Flysurfer Extacy 13m... :thumbup:

domdino - 18-12-2007 at 09:01 AM

I would try and get a guerilla 1 over a flysurfer extacy... i rave about flysurfer, but only the ones beyond Psycho IIs... I must confess i am not very keen on any flysurfers pre-2005. The extacy was decent though...

If you're looking for cheap kites though i would personally just rule out flysurfer.

The peter lynn guerilla 1 you should be able to find from someone on arcusers, and it's one of my all time fav. kites. got one for my girlfriend recently, a 10m, it's truly amazing. SUPER SUPER stability, not very fast turning but that shouldn't be a problem for you. Try and track one down!

Otherwise, i, personally, wouldn't look at any flysurfers before the pulse/psycho III, which will be well out of your price range...

barnes - 18-12-2007 at 12:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by domdino
I would try and get a guerilla 1 over a flysurfer extacy... i rave about flysurfer, but only the ones beyond Psycho IIs... I must confess i am not very keen on any flysurfers pre-2005. The extacy was decent though...

If you're looking for cheap kites though i would personally just rule out flysurfer.

The peter lynn guerilla 1 you should be able to find from someone on arcusers, and it's one of my all time fav. kites. got one for my girlfriend recently, a 10m, it's truly amazing. SUPER SUPER stability, not very fast turning but that shouldn't be a problem for you. Try and track one down!

Otherwise, i, personally, wouldn't look at any flysurfers before the pulse/psycho III, which will be well out of your price range...


Awesome info. I appreciate honesty. I think I might wait til the Synergy comes out, that way GII's will go on sale (the team riders just posted theirs on arcusers) and GI's will become much cheaper.

awindofchange - 18-12-2007 at 06:39 PM

On the PL's....

The G1's were great kites, especially in the smaller sizes. The larger ones were a bit of a pig for performance and all sizes likes stronger winds much better than the lighter winds. Light wind performance was very poor compared to other kites. Depower was very good and the Guerilla models had much wider wind ranges than anything else on the market at that time. The G1 was updated to the GII and it was a slightly better performing kite with better turning and more power, the only problem was that light wind performance actually got a little worse. You had to really fly the kite hard in light winds or it would seriously stall and was a little difficult to get moving again. Still, the GII was a great kite and again the smaller sizes rocked where the larger sizes were so-so. In the stronger winds the G1's and II's were awesome machines. Smooth and powerful. You still had to work them a little to get the max performance. The stronger winds made these kites come alive.

The G's were replaced by the newly designed Venom kites. The Venom was a breakthrough in design by PL. They increased the cell count on the kites by nearly double giving the kites a more solid feel in the turns and a lot more stiffness in the sail. The gust absorption was still as good as ever but the kite produced a ton better power in both the stronger and lighter winds. The stalling issue of the G's was eliminated but light wind performance was still not as good as some of the other brands out there but much better than the G's. A couple of people started to tweek their kites and some simple mods made the Venoms perform even better. These mods were incorporated into the Venom II which came out about a year and a half later. An experienced middle weight rider could match power per size on most other LEI/bow kites on the market where the earlier models were usually one or two sizes off (16 meter PL was about the same as a 14 meter LEI). The Venom II is an awesome kite with excellent depower and huge range. The low wind performance was also very "decent". The low wind performance is still not as good as the Flysurfers but that could be said about most surf kites on the market today.

The all new Synergy is still in the production stages and we are expecting our first shipments in about 2-3 weeks. The Synergy is said to have the best light wind performance of any ARC every produced while still providing the extreme gust absorbtion and stability that the ARC's are known for. We have not yet had the chance to test-drive one of these but have seen video footage and talked to the factory and team riders and everything so far sounds like another great breakthrough design. Time will tell if the "hype" lives up but PL is not a company that produces a kite just because the calender turns another year but one that produces a kite when they find a new design that is much better than the previous models. We are pretty excited about it and cant wait for it to get here.

Anyways, the 1120 is the first model ARC produced, it is a very powerful kite but it has very limited depower and can't really be compared to the ARC's that are being produced today in both performance and quality. On the bright side, once the Synergy hits the stores I believe there will be quite a few people who will be giving up their Venom's and VII's to upgrade. If you can hold out for a little longer you should be able to score a very awesome kite at a great bargain thanks to the Synergy. I would tend to look for the Venom or newer kite and try to stay away from the earlier models, not only are they going on 4 and 5 years old they just don' t have the performance that the newer models have. That being said, we still got a guy here that rides an 1120 and 840 and he rocks on them.... The life and longevity of the PL's is a strong argument against other brands.

In summary to your original question - Both Flysurfer and PL are awesome brands, if cost is a factor then the PL's will be your best choice, if not then you cant go wrong with Flysurfer or PL. For light wind performance - Flysurfer for sure (might be a harder choice once the Synergy gets here but we'll see).

Good luck and hope this helps.

Pablo - 18-12-2007 at 08:06 PM

Lots of good info here,

Yes it would be safe to say that the FS is easier to launch. Gusty winds and low pre-inflation can cause you some greif launching a PL kite. Some have complained about the pull you get on the safety with the FS as well, Once again though both are great kites.

You've just got to look at your conditions, wind speed, what you need the kite to do and pick the best choice. If you can, fly both.