Power Kite Forum

Some Q's about moving from handles to a bar..

wolla - 19-12-2007 at 11:24 AM

Hi all,

so here is the story so far.

I been flying my Elliot Magma 3.0 (3m) for about a year now, and for x-mas i got my olds to chip in to get me a bar, harness and Pansh Ace 5m. i have always flown using handles. and i have a few things i would like to get cleared up b4 i get to take my new toys out.

the bar is a flexifoil extreme (cant remember if it was a 60cm or 70cm)

1) Is there any major differences flying with a bar than it is with handles?

2) Is there a specific techinque i need to adopt to fly using the bar?

3) by the looks of it, the brake lines cant be used unless the quick release from the strop is used in emergencies. or am i looking at it wrong? do i just have to grab the brake lines then selves and pull?
(how do i go about landing if the brakes arent used like they are to land using handles?

4) according to this Page it says 60cm are for up to 4m, and the 70cm is for 5m+. because i cant remember (and not allowed it till x-mas) i am concerned that if its the 60cm one, it will not be suitable for the Pansh Ace 5. is that right, or will it be ok? the guy in the shop recommended it for its price and ability to use on larger kites... i guess i'm just concerned that it might not be ok.

5) any other things i should know about flying with a bar?

thanks in advance

Bladerunner - 19-12-2007 at 12:44 PM

Flying with a bar is easier in so much as you don't have to think about the brakes.

There is a modification you can do to the bar in order to increase the brake input on turns. It's called a cross-over bar ( search bars and handles) and has been discussed many times on here. Or google Spider bar to get the idea.

wolla - 19-12-2007 at 01:13 PM

yeah, i have read up on the cross-over bars.. they look pretty cool, but i already got the bar. didnt hear about the cross-overs till after i got the flexifoil one. thanxs for the reply tho..

any other replies/answers to any of the questions, however small is greatly appreciated..

B-Roc - 20-12-2007 at 10:34 AM

When flying with a bar on a fixed bridle kite you have no brake input. Brakes are for safety only unless you have a cross over. Some bars allow you to make a brake trim adjustment but nothing like using handles.

If the bar is too long for the kite, the kite will be too reactive and may spin instead of turning. If the bar is too short the kite will not be as responsive.

There is no technique needed for a bar. You do need to get your brakes set correctly so if you drop the bar the kite will be killed but once set, just pump the bar and the kite should launch and then its like steering a bike.

You can hit the brakes by grabbing the brake leader but that applies both - not like independant brake control on handles.

You may need to work on your reverse launch technique depending upon how your brakes are set. I grab the leader and pull way in with the one side of the bar held back so the kite lifts and rotates - not as easy as handles but equally effective for the most part.

Recovery is usually easier with handles IMO simply because the brakes aren't as effective on a bar and can't be applied to control the kite.

acampbell - 20-12-2007 at 11:13 AM

There is actaully brake input on most bars and certainly on the flexi bar (pulley in the middle). The Bar, main lines and brake lines to the middle form 2 opposing triangles with the bar as base leg and the brake lines the respective hypotenuse. When you turn the kite with the bar (pull one end toward you), the hypotenuse of the triangle oppoiste the turn gets longer and puts tension on the brake line in the direction of the turn. Watch the lines slide though the pulley when you turn and you will see it.

The cross-0ver bar increases this barke input about 2:1

I find that bars are trickier in light wind when you lose the finesse your get with handles.

Bladerunner - 20-12-2007 at 05:31 PM

BANG ON !!!

The bar you bought is a good one. It will provide you with some brake input when turning stock . Most peoples complaint about the bar is that the don't have as much independent brake control as with handles. I find with the 2:1 action I have PLENTY ! I can loop the kite on it's wingtip or power through with no brakes. It seems that the 2 extra pulleys add just enough weight to mess things up at the lowest of the wind range.

If you find you need the advantage of the 2:1 you can convert your bar for the price of 2 pulleys and about 10 ft of line. EASY !!!



Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
There is actaully brake input on most bars and certainly on the flexi bar (pulley in the middle). The Bar, main lines and brake lines to the middle form 2 opposing triangles with the bas as base leg and the brake lines the respective hypotenuse. When you turn the kite with the bar (pull one end toward you), the hypotenuse of the triangle oppoiste the turn gets longer and puts tension on the brake line in the direction of the turn. Watch the lines slide though the pulley when you turn and you will see it.

The cross-0ver bar increases this barke input about 2:1

I find that bars are trickier in light wind when you lose the finesse your get with handles.

wolla - 21-12-2007 at 03:29 AM

THats great info/advice guys, thanks... i guess i dont really use the brakes at all using handles when flying my 3m, except for landing. i generally hold the handles with my index finger above the power lines, and the other 3 below, so ultimately as high as i can.. i guess i'm just concerned about using my 5m ace first time round without brakes.. but i'm not too bothered now thanks to your posts.. i may probably use my handles on the 5m at first to get a feel for it, then move over to the bar..

thanks again..

Bladerunner - 21-12-2007 at 07:14 AM

Generally the bigger the kite the more it needs brake input to speed up the turns. It's a smart iedea to try it both ways. That way you will know what works for YOU. Seems more folks prefer handles to a bar. But don't worry about normal. Go with what works !

acampbell - 21-12-2007 at 08:21 AM

FWIW, in early 2008 HQ is coming out with a replacement for the Beamer TSR called the Scout, and it comes with a cross-over bar standard.

I have no doubt that they will add it (the cross-overer bar) to the catalog as an accessory.