Don - 8-1-2008 at 09:22 AM
I am learning to fly on the smallest of the Profoils, the 1.0M
This is a cute little kite. It's only a little bigger than I am. I have added a set of 50' 150lb shanti lines. I've had it out in decent winds, and
it doesn't pull hard enough to be a threat.
Now that I'm flying, I am learing quickly. Only 3 or 4 sessions so far, but I figure its time to start asking questions...
This kite is very fast, and quite twitchy. Part of it is my inexperience, but the kite occaisionally seems to want to suddenly turn or spin with no
appearent control input. Is this just a newbie thing, or is there something I should be watching for? I can't seem to intentionally make it spin
in the oppsite direction...any techniques?
Another thing is that the kite occaisionaly seems to just collapse. Either a tip folds over, or the kite just turns from a wing into a flag.
Usually a tip foldover immediately preceeds a spin, but sometimes I can pull on the non-collapsed end and have it recover. What's up with that?
Total collapses are another thing. If they occur straight over head, the kite drifts downwind and occaisionally recovers at about 30 degrees of
elevation dead downwind (ZOOMMM - hope its not pointed down) If it occurs off to the side, then it just flutters down. What's up with that?
So, what's the newbie mistakes that I am making?
Thanks,
Don
BeamerBob - 8-1-2008 at 10:07 AM
You could have an issue with uneven line length but it may be more likely that you are touching the brakes, maybe on only one side. You can spin the
profoil by just touching one brake, so it would be disconcerting to accidentally tighten up a brake and wonder why the kite is spinning when you
didn't think you encouraged it to do so.
Yes this kite is twitchy. I used my 1.5 to teach a newbie last week and I know it hit the ground 15 times. I told him he could keep it off the
ground by not going upside down because his head would tell him that he needed to control the kite differently upside down. He wouldn't listen but at
least he spread his arms real wide to avoid the crash. (Never worked) It can change direction very fast and you need to be able to counteract the
effects of gusts and such that will make it jump.
When the wind slowed down a little, I put him on the Beamer, and he did much better because it is a slower, more foregiving kite.
DAKITEZ - 8-1-2008 at 10:36 AM
The wing folding over sounds like you are flying out of the window. Especially when you bring it over head. You don't want the kite to overfly you.
When you bring the kite overhead just tap the brakes alittle to keep it in the window.
beachrights - 8-1-2008 at 11:21 AM
I have the same kite and experienced the same issues. I think it is a combination of the line weight and being such a small kite it reacts that much
quicker.
Try flying it on 2 lines- Run your flying lines through the brake bridles loops-it worked for me. Much better temperment.
BeamerBob - 8-1-2008 at 11:29 AM
I flew my symphony a little on the beach last week and it was fun as usual. But when I switched over to the profoil, I just grinned at how you can
dive it straight down to the ground and hit the brakes, pull a handle to spin it around and then straight back up again. A real crowd pleaser and its
lots of fun. I might try the profoil on 2 lines and the pure speed might be fun but I would always want to come back to the spinning, stopping fun it
has with brakes.
Is the 1m just too small to be flown on 4 lines?
gbrown - 8-1-2008 at 12:58 PM
I have a Pro-foil 1.5 and it is really fast kite so it can be a little tough to learn on but in the end you will be a better flyer. A couple of
thoughts;
50 foot lines a pretty short for that fast of a kite you can get from one edge of the window to the other in a blink of the eye.
You didn’t say where you were flying but shifty windy of even 10 degrees can drive you nuts because you can be near the edge of the window and with a
shift actually be past the window and the kite never moved. The results is the folding and collapsing you see.
The Pro-Foil responds really well to brake input and once you learn how to use them for turns and control you will love it but it can be hard to
“feel” that you have brake applied because the ratio of pull on the top of the handle to the bottom is significant. Trying it as a two line will give
you some time to see what it is like without brakes. But I would try and make the brake lines longer so you need more handle movement. You can do
that by tying the top lines closer to the handles.
George
speleopower - 8-1-2008 at 08:06 PM
I've got a smaller Quadrifoil Q2002. It does a similar thing. If you overcontrol it will collapse easily. That is holding the left handle at arms
lenght and then pull the right handle to your body or vise versa. That amount of control throw will sometimes make the kite collapse especially if
your at the edge of the window. It's probably not related to brake lines but to pulling to much on the main lines. Put a short strop line between
the handles to stop from over controlling.
This might help.
Also, try lighter weight lines in the 80'-90' length. You don't need very heavy lines unless your flying in very very heavy winds. Maybe 80-100
pound mains and 50 pound or lighter brake lines.
I have a very short strop between my handles on my Q2002 to keep me from overcontrolling.
Good luck-Scott
BeamerBob - 9-1-2008 at 05:42 AM
Yes Scott, you are right. When I fly my 1.5 the handle movements are about a foot max in either direction. Most inputs are less than 6 inches. If
you were really flailing the handles the kite would lose it. An 18-24 inch strop would let you do anything the kite can respond to.
GlideGuy - 9-1-2008 at 01:44 PM
It's possible that it has more to do with where you're flying your kite as opposed to how you're flying it. If the kite is collapsing or luffing with
(as you said; no input) it seems likely that you're flying it in the wind shadow of some obstruction. Depending on the wind speed, you need a
substantial amount of clearance between your kite and any upwind obstructions that are inducing turbulance, like buildings, hills and trees. A good
rule of thumb is 5-10 times the height of the obstruction. IE...if there is a two story building 20ft tall, stay 100-200 away from it.
Hope this helps.
Dean L
speleopower - 9-1-2008 at 09:20 PM
True, gusty wind/obstructioned wind can do this on the smaller kites easily. Didn't even think about that. I have found my small kite will suddenly
luff/flip in gusty conditions especially out near the edge of the window.
Scott
Don - 10-1-2008 at 06:48 AM
Thanks,
This gives me a whole heap of things to try.
I was flying in the middle of a lighted football field, so the lightpoles may have had a wind effect.
I also may have been overcontrolling it a bit....I'll try to calm down...
Last thing would be to muck with the lines...
Now all I need is the right amount of wind. (10-15, with gusts to 25 today, wich is just too much...
BeamerBob - 10-1-2008 at 07:10 AM
All the football fields I have access to are horrible for kites. The bleachers or stadium seats (if any) really swirl the wind. They also tend to be
at a lower elevation than the ground around them, which blocks and swirls the wind as well. The light poles probably don't bother you much. Let us
know what seems to fix the problem.
Don - 20-1-2008 at 06:11 PM
Well,
Took the kites out again today. Same field, winds 15-20.
After a few arguments with the 4m ACE about which one of us was going flying. (I wanted JUST the kite to fly, the kite wanted me airborn too...being a
newbie, I am not ready for jumping yet...much less being lifted bodily), I banished it to the kite bag, and pulled out the 1M Profoil.
Anyways, Smaller inputs seemed to do the trick. Between moving the hands up so that one finger wrapped the power lines, and keepling less than a
6-inch throw, it seemed to behave a lot better.. .
I was actually able to un-spin the lines quite a few times.
I could also get a feel for when things were getting to outside the edge of the wind. That would cause a collapse, but once I got used to avoiding
those areas.
It's a good thing that these kites have no sticks. It slammed into the ground quite hard quite a few times. I got the hang of using the brakes to
bounce it off the ground and go zooming off in a randum direction...
Fun fun
Bladerunner - 20-1-2008 at 06:29 PM
Ha Ha,
Learning by trial and error can be fun and funny if you keep it all under control. You are running to the edge of what's called the wind window. If
the wind is nice and clean your kite should sit nicely along the whole edge from above your head to the ground at each side. Try slowly working the
kite along that edge . See how adding brakes ( or a lull in the wind) makes it drop back. When the kite is sitting calm over head see how working just
one brake a little causes the kite to turn with no push pull type input.
Your 1 meter kite and 4m will fly a bit different. Once you are ready for it, the 4 will turn and travel a bit slower. Making it easier to control.
Good to hear you chose to put the kite that scared you back in the bag. Soon you will crave the power it will give ! All in good time :cool2: