Power Kite Forum - gravity always wins

gravity always wins

dustin.burch - 6-3-2008 at 12:24 PM

this is what happens when you think you know how to fly and its your first day out

8~mph winds a 6m pansh ace

tons of fun

IMG_0325.JPG - 69kB

Practice the PFL

USA_Eli_A - 6-3-2008 at 12:30 PM

PFL=parachutal (made up word) fall landing....\

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=459377

it won't save you rear everytime, but it will most of the time!

wexler - 6-3-2008 at 12:55 PM

Yes that pansh is a real beast and unpredictable.
I wish you a fast recovery

dustin.burch - 6-3-2008 at 12:55 PM

yeah the doc asked me why i didnt do that being that i am in the army and all but i didnt fall down i fell as i was being pulled happened as soon as i landed

wexler yeah your dad called when i was in the hospital i told i would try and keep him updated the xray is mostly for him

and thank you

[Edited on 3-6-2008 by dustin.burch]

USA_Eli_A - 6-3-2008 at 12:56 PM

gonna suck sittin out too!

DenisLaMenace - 6-3-2008 at 01:21 PM

quite interesting for someone who had not clue of what is PLF

So I searched youtube and found this:

[Edited on 3-6-2008 by buzz]

wexler - 6-3-2008 at 01:23 PM

Yea that looks like its pretty bad.

BeamerBob - 6-3-2008 at 02:12 PM

So how are things now Dustin and what happens next? Can you describe what happened when you jumped? What you did. What the kite did. How you landed. We can all learn from the mistake if you don't mind helping us out. You were quite the topic of discussion for about 3 days. References to your incident keep popping up elsewhere.

burritobandit - 6-3-2008 at 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob
So how are things now Dustin and what happens next? Can you describe what happened when you jumped? What you did. What the kite did. How you landed. We can all learn from the mistake if you don't mind helping us out. You were quite the topic of discussion for about 3 days. References to your incident keep popping up elsewhere.

I would appreciate that info as well. I think the info provided by people who crash/get hurt is very valuable to the rest of the community. It shows us all what can happen and (hopefully) gives us a new or renewed sense of respect for the kites/wind/sport. It also gives ideas of what not to do in certain situations and things to look out for. It's unfortunate that we have to obtain the info at someone's expense

I was reading where someone on the PKF forums was complaining about all the recent bad news from peeps getting hurt, and I can totally understand why, but reporting the mishaps really does more good than bad.

I hope you heal up quick, dustin

Has a crash/bail subforum ever been suggested or considered for PKF?

SecondWind - 6-3-2008 at 04:07 PM

Sorry to hear this Dustin - I wish you a speedy recovery :thumbup:

BeamerBob - 6-3-2008 at 06:32 PM

Information is huge on something like this. Sticking our heads in the sand (whoa, bad choice of words) about kite accidents can have as tragic a result as not telling teenagers about the birds and the bees.

The bad side of putting all this stuff in one place is that it could be used against us to limit places to fly. In other words to close flying locations down for "safety".

strictlycarved - 6-3-2008 at 06:41 PM

hope you a speedy recovery.

Baluk - 6-3-2008 at 07:22 PM

Ouch. Hope that heals nice and quick!

Just curious, how much do you weigh? I would never expect a 6m to do that to me in 8mph winds. Was there a gust?

BeamerBob - 7-3-2008 at 05:22 AM

As I remember, he was about 6 feet and 180-200 (give or take on both). Average build for his height.

Sthrasher38 - 8-3-2008 at 03:11 PM

It must have been gusty. I hope you get well soon thats a bad break.:o I really got lucky That I did not break my leg. Good luck and Sorry.

dustin.burch1 - 2-8-2008 at 10:47 AM

hello everyone sorry i did not follow up sooner to let everyone know how it turned out
what happened and what i learned

first let me say that beamerbob was right i pretty much did everything he told me not to, now on my behalf i did not disregard what he said it was going thru my head the whole time the truth of the matter was i just could not control the kite in the least bit i was trying to do as he said but having no real clue ( in my head i thought i knew what a was doing0
i was finding it very hard to manage the kite and have it do what i wanted

a little about the day the weather channel said 8mph winds ( this gave me a false sense of confidence)
i am 73inch and 212 pounds

the kite could have cared less it threw me around a large grassy field like i was a ragdoll

and i ended up with a metal rod and 3 screws in my leg and my head screwed on a little bit better for the whole thing
]

so things didnt not turn out that bad i am in the army so all my medical was paid for and i got 30days of paid leave
Although i was and am the butt of alot of jokes about how i let a kite kick my butt

what i am doing now.

well i am back to 97% think i lost that last 4% forever i bought a new kite a 1.5m i think is the best choice and should have done this in the first place

i will fly the pansh again ... someday after longing many hours on the 1.5 and with some one that knows how to fly is around ( beamerbob ever come to savannah let me know )

so for everyone that thinks its a waste to get a small kite first its not and i have pictures to prove it

dustin.burch1 - 2-8-2008 at 10:59 AM

Quote:

Well dont know if anyone cares anymore but i will going ahead a try

i was flying the kite sliding around the field on my butt the kite was around 45dregres from the ground pulling like a train i am getting close to the end of the field so i try and bring it up and over to the edge of the window but i keep going to far and it starts to kinda fold up so I would swing it back out all of this happing in like 20-30 secs its still about 60degrees and i try and cut it across to the other side of the window hoping that i can get it to relax so i can stand up and walk back to the other side of the field and it is going across its starts to pull so i use the pull to pull me to standing we it just keeps pulling and i end up in the air i get high enough to swing my legs in front of me and the kite takes a dive ripping me back to earth it happened so fast i did not even think to let go nor did i know my leg was broken until i looked down and say the bottom of my shoe i grabbed my leg put it back straight wiggled my toes to make sure i could by this time my friends had run up to see how i was i told them to call 911 and well the rest went as it should

and thanks for all the well wishs everyone

Sthrasher38 - 2-8-2008 at 11:06 AM

Sorry bro. Glad to hear you are back! :yes:

furbowski - 2-8-2008 at 11:48 AM

Glad to hear you got most of your leg back and also glad to hear you had good medical coverage!

A few of us were wondering how you were just a couple a weeks ago, glad to hear you are still flying!

I've broken a few bones in the past, the last bit of recovery on them took me most of a year, give it time, you might get the last few percent back....

ikemiester - 2-8-2008 at 06:44 PM

ouch man that hurt i'm glad your feeling better
ps stick with that 1.5 for a while
Not trying to be mean but hey guys by his description it sounds like he did a half kiteloop on his first day out :lol:

dustin.burch1 - 3-8-2008 at 04:45 AM

yeah i think i will fly the 1.5 for a while

... just some thoughts any one ever try to tie a line off to the ground and then tie that line to the bottom brake part of the handles like 5 foot or so just thinking that if i did that it would force me to controll the kite more because if i let it get away from me it would just put on the brakes kinda like kite killers only attached to the ground

just a thought

_____ - 3-8-2008 at 06:32 AM

Hope you get back to 101% soon man.

If I tied a line like that I would probably trip and fall over it so Ill stick to my KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s...lol.

BeamerBob - 3-8-2008 at 06:40 AM

that's where the kite killers come in. If you are in trouble, you just let the handles go and the kite falls out of the sky. I'm sure I mentioned them the morning I showed you the kite. I'm glad you had such a full recovery Dustin. It's too bad you had to go through this. I'm most impressed you are flying a kite again. Many people would never want to touch one again. Those that would jump back in usually would've been into it for awhile. You can certainly help us here with newbies asking questions about "get a big kite first to do some jumping" questions we get about once a week. Every time I think about your predicament, I feel a pang of remorse that I could've done something different to keep you safer, but anyone with a credit card could get that same kite with no questions asked and no demonstration of how to fly it and things not to do. We get in the Savannah area several times a year, and I usually post our vacation plans here on the chance someone could come fly on the beach with us.

dustin.burch1 - 3-8-2008 at 07:10 AM

yeah i noticed alot of the questions being asked by new people in fact thats how i found this post again

and i dont think you should feel any remorse i did not respect the wind or the kite ( i do now) and it was bound to happen
and i know that what happen to me was one of the worse things that could happen and i dont even really feel that it was that bad but, i am glad it happened to me and not any of my friends as i really have the best medical and job coverage

and you are correct we were going to get a kite regardless if you sold us one or not and i think that your advice gave us a very clear warning that while i feel i did not disregard it i did not adhere to it as tightly as i should have

also you did mention the kite killers and i have some on order i just read that some people use some type of anchors when they first fly a big kite and i was wondering how they did that

the reason i want to fly the kite again is two parts one its really fun and my feelings about flying have not changed really since i got hurt and two i am scared of the kite a bit not irrational fear but something I want to get over regardless so now i just have a better understanding one that i dont think i could have no matter how much you warned me i mean we were amazed that it picked you up you are a big guy and it was really low winds and it picked you right up that should have been enough for any non retarded person to realize that you have to respect the kite i mean you spelled it out for us, showed us and told us plenty of times that it can a will hurt you but you are right i was and still am to a lesser extent young and dumb i really feel there was nothing more you could have done other than running up and slapping me in the face every time i got over zealous but i would have just found a place that you could not go and continued with my foolish ways until i got hurt the hardest and best lessons are the ones you learn from your own mistakes so if you would be some kind as to replace the pang of remorse with a thought of dumb kids it would make me feel better.

stetson05 - 3-8-2008 at 11:39 AM

I just got a 5m ace and it scares me too. I think it comes from self preservation. Mine pulls like a freight train when I am not trying to generate power. I am glad to hear you are ok. Nothing like a little PT to rehab you I suppose. Just curious, what is your MOS? I was a 19D for 11 years.

I don't think that injury would have kept me from flying kites again either. But I bet it hurt like an SOB.

Thanks for the pics though. A little visual deterant is never a bad deal for us newbs.

furbowski - 3-8-2008 at 03:05 PM

somebody else with more experience may have something to say about the anchor thing with big kites, but I've never tried one nor considered it really...

There is tethering, which is tying the flyer down to something, some folks use long tethers to pull them a long ways off the ground, you wear a harness and attach the tether to the back. A couple problems: first if something breaks you drop / get pulled hard down wind without warning, and second the tether can overload the flying lines (which are only designed to lift an average body weight safely) and canopy tie-ins (ditto, but spread out across the kite). If a flying line breaks while in flight, it will be a power line, which will send the kite spiraling around the remaining power line, and it can take a while to come down! If you are tethered in the meantime, you're stuck in a loaded system that is out of control, sounds harsh to me.... If the canopy tie-ins rip out, it's an expensive repair job. "power kite tether" on youtube will show you what's up with tethers, and something like "helicopter kite crash" or "power kite spiral" should show you what happens when a power line breaks on a big kite.

But really you're trying to find a way to keep safe... And the only two things that can be counted on to keep you safe are first a good knowledge of the wind speed and potential, and second your skills in kite control. Quick releases help a lot, but still you need enough skill to recognize that you're in trouble and enough time to activate the safety. Helmets and pads help lots, but they won't keep you safe if you want to jump off a cliff, not that you do...

The 1.5 is a pretty hard kite to put yourself in danger on, and it will teach you lots of skill. It's harder in some ways because it's so fast, being a small kite. But give it enough wind, and it will give you trouble! Here's a thread full of small kites and high wind stories...

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=6467

and kite killers don't protect you -- one can always let go of the kite, but kite-killers bring it back down to ground quickly, protecting bystanders against lines and handles flying through the air as well as protecting the kite from trees, power lines, and tangles. They can also safe you from a long walk to retrieve your kite.

Last thing -- you sound like you might be feeling a wee bit down, don't be. Have you ever checked out the Darwin awards? http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/ I find they're always good for a reality check....

keep flying!

furbs

BeamerBob - 3-8-2008 at 06:33 PM

Hey Dustin, thanks for the pass. You make it sound like I really did all the things I thought I did. Also, you really sound like you have your head on straight and all your motives are adult like instead of child like. Put those kite killers on and try the 6m again in 5-6 mph winds that aren't really gusty. I recommend the beach for your first time out with it again so you have soft sand and relatively few obstacles. Two other things. Keep coming here to help with the noobs that don't respect the winds and big kites. Keep flying kites

dustin.burch1 - 4-8-2008 at 12:12 PM

stetson: i am a 68w which is the new code for medic

furbow: i was thinking of some type of anchor system for the 6m not the 1.5(it's 2 line only )

i am currently having a buddy that welds build me a rotating bar anchor system with 2 line that come off and attach to the back brake loops with about 6foot of line so you have to maintain control of the kite or it will put the full brakes on me and my other buddy tried this Sunday by tieing the line to a metal grate in the taxi section of an airfield ( its cool i got permission for flight control before. and there where no flights on sunday) with amazing results its really gave us a chance to try and fly this kite without being ripped around we had a few pretty big gust 10-15mph and all that would happen was that the kite pull and end up with full brakes and just land ( i'll try and get pictures up when its built or better yet video)

beamer: i am not try to make it sound any why just telling the truth. also this might sound like a dumb question but does the wind shift alot on the beach, also where do you go when you come to savannah to fly i can not seem to find a beach without a ton of people on it and that just does not seem safe for me to fly the 6m with so many people around,
i would feel better with less safety space with the 1.5m but for the 6m i need to find a place with a people for a good 100m to feel safe

note on noobs: i dont think there is anything that can be typed to really let people feel how strong these kites are i mean i am a big guy and it picked me and broke my leg but when i tell people about that just dont GET IT and say stuff like it was a freak event or kites are not that strong i think like me some people are just going to have to feel how strong these kites or you can just hope they let go.....

furbowski - 4-8-2008 at 01:32 PM

hey dustin, the whole kite tether thing was for the 6m, but it's pretty much a no go...

your airfield set-up with the bar anchor on the 2 brake lines sounds awesome actually, a good way to try a big kite and make it safe!! just getting pulled a few feet before the brakes go on would be a great way to intro your more skeptical work buddies to the power these kites can produce....

Just be careful not to load up the powers like that as they can easily break when there is more than a body weight hanging from them!

sound like your anchor set-up would also work hitched to the trailer ball of a pick-up....

also sounds like you are back at flying in a big way, keep it up!!!!!

csa_deadon - 4-8-2008 at 07:12 PM

I've been flying for over 20 years now. All I have ever seen with tethering is bad, or potentially bad.

Back in the eighties I used to work for catch the wind kites, and we would climb the main line on our big lifters, (stupid)!!

So much can go wrong, and that's just with a single line kite with sky garbage hanging off the line.

Throw dual line or a quad into the mix with a tether, and the odds of an emergency room visit increase atleast 10 fold.

When tehered, odds are you are using a tether line rated far more then you weigh. Most of us use lines that are maybe
double what we weigh. Bottom line is the safe money is bet on the fly line breaking before your tether line.

The last word on this is, tethering should stay where it belongs, "skydiving" i.e. dope rope.

_____ - 4-8-2008 at 07:29 PM

I would like to share that picture on a local photography forum Im on if you dont mind. Some of the people there dont understand the power of our kites.

dustin.burch1 - 5-8-2008 at 04:54 AM

_____ more then welcome to show it to anyone you woud like

_____ - 6-8-2008 at 11:48 AM

Thanks man