Power Kite Forum - Making your own handles

Making your own handles

Dagon - 26-4-2008 at 11:27 AM

Ok I would like to start making my own handles so that all my kites have the same handles. I am tired of different handles. I love the squishy neoprene covers on my ozone handles so I figured I would use an old wetsuit and sewing machine to make covers. I have heard you can make handles with pvc, a heat gun, some plywood and nails. Then I need info on what material to use for the line atachments and the strop. There is a climbing gym here in town and I was going to use thin cord for the line atachments.
does anyone have experiance with this?

BeamerBob - 26-4-2008 at 11:51 AM

I've been thinking about the same thing. Problem is I don't need any handles right now. Tridude and I were talking on Friday about being able to bend pvc pipe in boiling water. If not, a heat gun certainly works. The padding would be the trickiest part. Firm enough but not too hard. Soft enough but not squishy. It will be interesting to see your progress. Aluminum tubing might be easier to get the bend in consistently. Use some sort of cheater bar extension to apply the force around some jig for the bend.

NPWfever - 26-4-2008 at 12:04 PM

You can also put sand in an old pot, heat it up untill its, well really hot, and pour it inside the PVC, then bend it. However I wouldn't use PVC on anything other than a 4m or smaller in light winds. If your gonna really apply any serious traction forces, or jump use aluminum. You can get tubing fairly cheap at local metal yards. And w/ your padding make sure you either sew the neoprene to some type of rubber, and not just along the edges, sew a diamond pattern accross it, then make it a tube. Or use some type of adhesive to attach the neoprene to the handles.

Good luck!

solarix - 26-4-2008 at 02:37 PM

I made a set of handles for the Rev 1. I used 1/2" schedule 40 PVC and a heat gun to bend it. I used a piece of soaker hose for the outer rubber as the pvc just fits through it after it is soaked in alcohol . I would not use PVC for even my 4m Beamer, the Beamer handles are just about finished. I am building aluminum just a bit longer than the beamer handles that came with the kite. Tennis racket leather wrap tape or the tubular padding for bike handle bars for the handle covering.

Jerry

SCREWYFITS - 26-4-2008 at 03:15 PM

Funny you all are talking bout this I've been working on the "Screwy Handles" with the "Screwy Kite Killas" :D

I'm working on a limited run of handles (probably 25 sets) Aluminum and gel grips without a (power) pulley and with or without Kite Killas... :thumbup:

Here is a sneak peek of the proto...:o

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Screwyfits/DSC00101-1...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Screwyfits/DSC00104-1...

I like orange but I have all kinds of colors for grips very comfy.:singing:

I'm working on a smooth sweeping arc for the bend in stead of just the crook bend... :smilegrin:

If I can give any help to any DIYer's I will...

The rope/line I use is the same type as the climbing rope (4mm) as stated... The grips is handlebar tape but the gel cork type... A lil more expensive...

My Idea is to do a "Pass the handle program" with a finished proto to get feedback from members to improve or put them thru the test and find any weaknesses... I'll post a thread later...:singing:

Screwy...

NPWfever - 26-4-2008 at 03:23 PM

AAAHHHHHHHH!!! STOP OUTDOING ME!!!!! :no:

High five on the handles though :thumbup:

BeamerBob - 26-4-2008 at 03:29 PM

I'd be happy to try them out and critique. I'm good at figuring out how to make things better, figure out what's wrong, etc. but not so good at taking a creativity project from start to finish.

USA_Eli_A - 26-4-2008 at 04:53 PM

i have handle plans with measurments. post em 2morrw! ish!

awindofchange - 26-4-2008 at 04:56 PM

A couple of suggestions. For your leaders you stated that you are using some climbing rope. You might want to look into some Amsteel or equivalent that doesn't have the stretch that most climbing ropes have. If your leaders stretch under load that would make your kite less responsive and mushy feeling.

On building your own handles - for power kites I highly suggest aluminum over PVC. I have seen home made PVC handles snap and it usually isn't pretty. Either the kite gets some damage by the sudden jerk loading and can rip out some of the bridle attachment points or the PVC will snap in your hands and can give you quite a gash. It usually breaks at the bend. Smaller kites that don't pull much might be ok but with the cheap cost of aluminum I wouldn't bother messing with the PVC. Just get a thicker wall aluminum tube, something in the .068 or larger wall thickness. Pack it plum full with sand before bending to avoid kinking the tube and then empty the sand out. Dip the ends in some of that plastic coating stuff for dipping tools into to protect your hands or grips from being cut by the end of the aluminum tube and then use some neoprene or other coating for your grips. Fairly easy to build and materials would only be about 20-30 bucks for enough to make about a dozen handles.

Just some suggestions is all. Let us know how you come out.

SCREWYFITS - 26-4-2008 at 06:47 PM

I agree with the climbing rope stretches but under 2 feet the stretch is minimal that I believe its gonna work fine for now... great advice on the Amsteel though I might have to look for some of that for the limited run handles. :thumbup:

I do have a lil secret surprise :saint: that I don't think anyone or company has done yet... :singing: I haven't seen it or even heard of it... :o It's not gonna be super tech or anything, just nice new feature that I hope catches on... when I do the "Pass the Handle" It will be equipped with this feature... :yes:

And would expect some feedback...

I probably get this "Pass the Handle" going next week to week and a half (keep your fingers crossed):D

Beamerbob love to include you in the "Pass the Handle" you opinion is valued. By the way did you receive the mail I sent you?

Screwy

NPWfever - 26-4-2008 at 07:15 PM

Ohh!! Do we get a free set if we guess the feature....? :D I would use paracord for the leaders, its strong, low stretch, and knots nicely.

jellis - 26-4-2008 at 08:59 PM

I don't have any problem the plastics I use to make handles with and have used since 95 on the handles without breaking them. I dislike it when someone copies my power handles and sells them for profit as that is not cool. I do not have any problem with anyone making copies for themselves and have encouraged it as a lot of you know.

NPWfever - 26-4-2008 at 09:16 PM

I saw a lexan set somewhere, totally clear, WAY COOL! :evil:

SCREWYFITS - 26-4-2008 at 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis
I don't have any problem the plastics I use to make handles with and have used since 95 on the handles without breaking them. I dislike it when someone copies my power handles and sells them for profit as that is not cool. I do not have any problem with anyone making copies for themselves and have encouraged it as a lot of you know.

I'm pretty sure I'm the one being talked about... at least the copying of "YOUR" power handles...

I'm unsure how to take this due to I came up with the same concept before I had even seen your handles and I was like... hey I did that too... so I apologize if you feel as if you are being copied...

(Edited 4-27-08 12:05am; I did some research and have to admit that you had this idea and concept longer than me by far, but in no way did I take your idea. I also found patents that date back to 93 that use similar ideas and in no way am I saying that you copied someone else, you coulda had this idea from 1990... no hard feelings, this was not an important part of my design and in no way will it affect what my intentions are. This reminds me of the saying "great minds think alike"... and you obviously thought before me... and you've obviously been around kiting long before me and deserve a lot of credit...)

I originally seen these on Kiteboarding bars (of coarse its a bar and not handles but the concept was there) and I incorporated it into a handle...
I can admit I was NOT the first to come up with a block and tackle design / or a pulley bar system / even your power handles...
I don't even know who came up with the idea first, if you were the first to ever think of this... my hat is off to you...

I'll be a big enough man to make and offer my handles without the pulley system...

I just hope someone doesn't hit me up for making kite handles since I wasn't the one that came up with them first... and I'd say I'm copying the handle idea (bent bar with two leaders coming out of them)...

Sorry if this sounds offensive but I felt like I got blamed for something that I felt I never did... so it was a lil offensive to me and I tried to say what I felt without attacking... I also never want to acquire any enemies of any type... I'll remove the pulley option for good measures...

No harm no foul... :smilegrin:

If you need an apology... I'm truly sorry...
Screwy

When I reveal my new secret feature (a very simple idea)... I apologize right here and now if anyone else has thought of it first... I have never seen or heard of this idea and I'm extremely surprised :o ... If I'm the first to ever think of this idea and bring it to market... "EVERYONE USE IT" I want to see it every where because it's gonna be very convenient... :singing: alter it ... improve on it... profit off of it... "NO HARD FEELING HERE" :thumbup:

SCREWYFITS - 27-4-2008 at 01:03 AM

dagon
Sorry your thread got hijacked... if you need any help just holler at me (U2U)... I'm in Livermore Ca. and I'm more than happy to bend some aluminum if you need even bending some PVC...
Screwy

B-Roc - 27-4-2008 at 08:51 AM

For padding on homemade handles, go to a bike store and get foam grips for 10 speed bike handle bars. They come in sets of four. They have 1/2" inner diameters and when soaped up they slide on no problem and when the suds try, they don't move. Very comfortable and very easy to work with and pretty cheap too.

I've done that on 3 sets of pvc handles I own and much prefer the grip and squishy / comfy feeling they offer.

jellis - 27-4-2008 at 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SCREWYFITS

Quote:

Dude take it easy, dislike and not cool is not an all out attack nor was it meant to be, sorry Screwy. Besides there is a major flaw in your pulley handles that you will find out eventually by using the wrong pulleys. Try the Harkin 404 pulleys and you will see what I mean. Thanks for looking up the patent thing as I have looked before and did not find anything, all though maybe I did not search enough or in the right place, nor do I care to patent the idea. Yes I have seen the pulley bar show up in later years and it looks like it helped the turning abilities as do the pulley handles we use.
Once again I am sorry you got upset by my post and I don’t have any right to ask you to do or not do anything.
jellis

USA_Eli_A - 27-4-2008 at 10:53 AM

to clarify, ellis built the idea, its his design....please go thru him for the handles

jellis - 27-4-2008 at 01:15 PM

Yes Eli that guy did have part of the equation that sparked the kite handle idea but I turned it into a great advantage for kiting. We still have the plans posted with all the part numbers with dimensional drawing and pictures to go with it, so anyone can make their own.
Once again Screwy I am sorry the post was harsh, and like Eli said do what you will no problems.

USA_Eli_A - 27-4-2008 at 01:28 PM

ellis did finish the design. improved it too! i love those pulley handles you make!!! awesome!

Taper123 - 27-4-2008 at 01:29 PM

For the leaders, find a boating store if there is one near you... and get some sta-setX (used as small sailboat rigging). It's a very low stretch line and quite strong. Goes through the pulleys nice and smooth as well if your using that system.

jellis - 27-4-2008 at 02:47 PM

Thanks for the tip I will try ista set and found it here..........
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSear...

USA_Eli_A - 27-4-2008 at 02:53 PM

http://www.kitebuggyspeedshop.com/accessories.htm

SCREWYFITS - 27-4-2008 at 08:03 PM

Like I said before "No Harm No Foul" :thumbup:

I'm just trying to give something to the sport that has give'n me so much... :saint:

Also just want to improve and create new product... :singing:

Screwy...

Dagon - 27-4-2008 at 10:04 PM

Wow, looks like handles are a hot topic these days. By the way Ozone handles use 1/2" schedule 80 pvc (the gray stuff) and they work great. The gray stuff is less brittle. but aluminum is probably a safe bet.
what does that pulley on the power handles do anyway?
Jon is a great guy, sometimes I think he would rather tell you how to do something your self than sell it to you, so I think everyone should know he meant no harm by his comment.

SCREWYFITS - 27-4-2008 at 11:25 PM

Hey Dagon,

Again sorry your thread got hijacked and out of hand, I think we are all good now... :thumbup:

I'd also like to add that I've heard nothing but good about Jon and take no credit from him...:saint:

As far as the pulley... with it... it allows the break line to travel a lil less than twice as far as the breaks on the handle... so if you pull the break (handle) an inch, the break line on the kite travels apx 2 inches (a lil less)... now as far as pressure, pulling on the break is apx twice as hard... :wow: now keep in mind the line that attaches to your power line can be moved up and down for infinite adjustment... from normal travel to the apx double travel... a trick knot that I give "Jellis" credit for (seen it on his handles) called a double larkshead knot, can be moved up and down easly on the power line but is locked when pulled from an angle... it has 4 loops (2 on the handle side and 2 on the kite side) around the power line...
IMO I like 3 loops... (I guess we could call it a one-n-half larkshead knot :D) 2 loops on the handle side and 1 loop on the kite side... its a lil smaller knot and seems to achieve the same result...:saint:

That being said it makes the kite react faster to break input... IMO they are more useful for the larger kites or the slower turning kites (hence larger)... I'd say 5/6m and up... used on the small kites they could be adjusted to not pull as much, as small kites do not need as much...

I use it on my 5m Ace and Bullet 7m... I think its coming off the Ace soon... or I might shorten the handle so I can have lil stubbie handles with the same reaction as normal (non-pulley) handles.

Please anyone... correct me if I'm wrong or add if I have missed anything...:D
Screwy

Dagon - 28-4-2008 at 08:31 AM

looks to me like if you had a pulley there when you pulled on the breaks it would pull less than with a standard (non pulley attachment). I dont understand how this would be better? wouldnt you want more break for better turning.

BeamerBob - 28-4-2008 at 08:48 AM

When you pull the brakes, the pulley takes up roughly double the line that a direct handle attachment would. This effect would double the pressure required to move the handle a given distance. I guess the benefit would be that you could achieve the braking results with less handle movement, if you can supply the pressure.

jellis - 28-4-2008 at 09:25 AM

I use the Power Handles on the 4m thru the 16m. The larks head knot is a triple for the last few years and I do not knot the power lines for the adjustments anymore.
Screwy you got it right. On the bigger foils when the effort is increased we use the whole handle and slide our hands down the handle closer to the pulley for better power turning.
Thanks for the kind comments Dagon.
Jon

Dagon - 28-4-2008 at 09:28 AM

So does anyone know where to order those pulleys? I might like to try making a pair of these for my 4.5 razor

crazymanme2 - 28-4-2008 at 10:51 AM

West Marine has those pulleys

crazymanme2 - 28-4-2008 at 10:58 AM

RONSTAN
Series 25 Lightweight Blocks

SCREWYFITS - 28-4-2008 at 04:06 PM

This is the cheapest I've found...
http://www.fisheriessupply.com/online/ln_menu/product.asp/mode/1/product_id/9269/Ntt/harken+404/N/0/Dx/mode+matchallpartial/Nty/1/R/26770/D/harken+404 /catalog_name/FISCO/Ntx/mode+matchpartial+rel+Inactive/act/A01/Ntk/All

It's the 4th item down Har#404...

The Harken 404 is the block (pulley) Jellis recommends and I've seen them... very trick... has bearings and is semi open so debris doesn't get trapped...

I used the RON#RF13101-2 from this site and work well on the 5m Ace... Jellis claims the Harken is key... I'm assuming it takes a higher load and still operates smooth... stainless steel so it should never break...

Dagon - 29-4-2008 at 10:03 AM

So it is $9 each for the stainless steel and $8 for a 2 pack of the plastic ones, it looks like the RON#RF13101-2 (plastic ) have a higher load rating 330lbs vs the metal at 250lbs

SCREWYFITS - 29-4-2008 at 03:49 PM

I agree... the ron's would probably do fine IMO for the smaller kite (4.5m) you plan on using it with...

I'm sure jellis has his reasons for the 404's he's been doing this for a great period of time and has probably used both on every kite size possible... It would be nice to pick his brain to find out his experiences with both of these... and the benefits of the 404's over the Ronstan's...

my guess is to reduce friction... being that the pull pressure is increased you'd want the smoothness of the bearing... besides they are stainless and probably last forever...

Screwy

jellis - 29-4-2008 at 06:11 PM

Hey Screwy right again "my guess is to reduce friction". Because like you said the advantage is toward the kite, I found that when I used quite a few different types of pulleys that fiction reduction is your friend and by trial and error (and money down the drain LOL) I found the Harkins to be the best all around. I did this research quite some time ago and the pulleys might have changed for sure. I have never had any problems with the Harkin pulleys, in sand, dirt, and salt water at least so far.
jellis

jellis - 29-4-2008 at 06:23 PM

Dagon I sent you an email with the how to drawing on the power handles. Anyone else? Just email me at kbss@iinet.com and I will send you a copy. This is the origional draft and I do not use the knots in the power lines anymore, just the triple larks head knot. I guess I need to revise them, and I will put it on the list of TO DO stuff.

SCREWYFITS - 29-4-2008 at 09:03 PM

Thanx Jellis!!!

Dagon - 8-5-2008 at 11:53 AM

what is the best material to use for a strop? ( the line between the handles that hooks into the harness?) I need a strong material that will not fray on the spreader bar. My ozone strop has a larks head that is woven back into the rope so there is no not, does anyone know how to do this?

kitedemon - 8-5-2008 at 01:00 PM

pulleys (blocks) can be had at most all marine hardware stores the boaty type places. :smilegrin:

I had a spyder bar for a while that used a similar system on a bar it worked great. I have been thinking of a laminated wooden pair myself ash likely as I have a chunk. I just don't have a pressing need yet I have a beat up pair of flexi's and a pair of ozone one but wow they are the short ones and well they are short.

kitedemon - 8-5-2008 at 01:02 PM

Sorry I didn't see the second page... :no:

kevnm - 10-9-2010 at 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jellis
Dagon I sent you an email with the how to drawing on the power handles. Anyone else? Just email me at kbss@iinet.com and I will send you a copy. This is the origional draft and I do not use the knots in the power lines anymore, just the triple larks head knot. I guess I need to revise them, and I will put it on the list of TO DO stuff.

Hello forum. I'm new here and new to power kiting. I have been flying dual lined stunt kites for several years, but nothing that can lift me off the ground, or throw me down to it. In fact, I'm so new to PS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-ing, that I just got a 2010 model Prism 2.5 Snapshot foil in the mail yesterday and haven't flown it, yet.

Anyway, it is quad ready, but only comes with 2 lines and straps. I want to make some handles on the cheap, instead of paying $40 + s&h. I know I am coming into this thread a couple years late, but I was wondering, Jellis, if you could send me the plans for handles that you offered up?

Thanks a lot.

WELDNGOD - 11-9-2010 at 04:46 AM

handles are for four line kites , Kev. When you step up to four line kites you will then need handles or a bar. I recommend handles

Bladerunner - 11-9-2010 at 09:14 AM

Kevnm U2Usent

Jon's Plastic handles saved the day this winter.

A snowmobile picked up a friends lines and when the handles hit the track they self destructed save a lot of damage!

#1 for Plastic ! :thumbup:

kevnm - 11-9-2010 at 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WELDNGOD
handles are for four line kites , Kev. When you step up to four line kites you will then need handles or a bar. I recommend handles

Thanks. When I said it is quad ready, I meant that they bridle it so that you can add 2 more lines to fly with handles. As a dual line kite, the brake bridles just hang limp.