Power Kite Forum

HQ Crossfire II

BeamerBob - 19-5-2008 at 06:41 AM

I have tracking on my new CF II 5m that says I should have it tomorrow. I can't wait to unfurl this thing the first time. I will give a full review as soon as I can match up some wind with opportunity. Of course I'll take pictures so you can be there too.

DAKITEZ - 19-5-2008 at 07:23 AM

I have the same kite coming also. It should be here friday and I'm headed for the beach right after it gets here. I hope to have some good wind to give a decent review:thumbup:
After the crossfire I'm wanting to get a montana III and give it a try.

BeamerBob - 19-5-2008 at 07:45 AM

We have a 7m Montana III demo right now but I haven't gotten a proper harness yet. I will have to pick one up soon though. Wexler has flown it twice and handles the kite very well.

Bladerunner - 19-5-2008 at 07:55 AM

One of the many reasons I am big on harnesses is that when you are given an opportunity to try ( move up ? ) to Depower you will :
Expand your actual fly time . Shortening the learning curve.
Be comfortable wih the pull and being hooked in.
Have a harness to use.

furbowski - 19-5-2008 at 08:21 AM

i'm very curious about the CF II as a future low-wind good value high performance fixed foil kite in the larger sizes...

looking forwards to the reviews...

furbo

BeamerBob - 21-5-2008 at 04:54 AM

Well, i hung around long enough to catch the UPS driver coming in the back door with a pleasantly kite shaped box. I headed her off at the pass and was out the door with the kite. Finally late last night I had a chance to open it up.

The bag: No it doesn't have lift or pull but it is really the outside face of the kite. This is nicer than HQ bags in the past. It has a large zipped panel that is big enough to put long or flat things like kite stakes in. This bag is better thought out than many other bags I've seen. We'll have to wait and see about durability, but it looks robust. Oh, the big zip is gone.

I haven't seen any pictures of this kite that gave an indication of how beautiful it really is. I have been worried about the colors and graphics but it is all very tasteful and well coordinated. Then you have the colored bridles that jump out at you in stark contrast to the kite fabric. They would be handy if you got a tangle. Each bridle, A, B, C, has it's own color so it is quickly obvious if something is out of place. Most importantly, they just look cool. :cool:

The handles are the same as they have been for the last year as far as I can see, but they have been fine anyway. Never hear of one of these breaking. The padding could be a little more cushy but I always wear gloves no matter what handles I'm using.

The kite killers are improved over the ones that came with my Beamer which were an improvement over the ones from about 18-24 months ago. Can you say continuous improvement? The old ones on my Beamer had a metal thing that created the loops in the bungee cord. These new ones have like a sewn bridle loop that will be much more robust than the ones from even a year ago. They look better and should take the heat better. Flexi KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s don't have anything on these whatsoever.

This was in the living room at 11 last night so I don't even have the lines attached yet. I might get to fly mine today. I imagine some others got theirs yesterday and we will have some flight reports today or tomorrow. See my flickr link in my sig for some pics of it laying in the living room floor. More pics to follow in some sunlight so you can really see how nice this kite looks.

tridude - 21-5-2008 at 08:11 AM

thats a sweet looking sail...................look forward to you flying review. Are you and Angus the only 2 flying these?

BeamerBob - 21-5-2008 at 08:31 AM

dlish is supposed to get one Friday. That's all I've heard about. I'm sure all the dealers across the country have orders on the way too. I imagine there are some that aren't on PKF. :duh: But all the good ones are on here. :thumbup:

f0rgiv3n - 21-5-2008 at 09:23 AM

Ohhhh DUUUDE!!!!! That looks BEAUTIFUL!!! awesome looking kite man, congrats and have fun flying, i can't wait to hear how it goes! (i little bummer about the Big zip on the bag gone... :lol: I kinda thought it had some style to it :cool2: ). ;) Awesome!

acampbell - 22-5-2008 at 05:35 AM

Yeah the bag is nice. I do not miss the big zip; several on my demo kites have broken just being tossed aroudnd in the car and demo bag. One think I like about HQ bags is the generous cut in size. It allows you to para-pack or wad the kite into the bag in if you ever have to leave the beach in a hurry (storm, cops, wife, etc,).

I have not flown it yet, but one thing that I have noticed and am pleased about is that, probably due to the new fabric, the sail seems lighter. I recall that my Crossfire I 7.7m sail was heavier on the scales than my 8.3m Peter Lynn Reactor. I felt it hurt the light air performance, even for such a big kite. I just compared the sail only of the Crossfire II 5m to my PL Reactor 4.9 and they are the same wieght, which is really encouraging.
With that in mind I am anxious to try the 10m size when they come in (they are not here yet) and explore its usable wind range.
I have the new Blurr in too in 5m and am looking forward to a comparative fly-off with the CF II 5m, the Blurr 5m and the trusty Reactor 4.9m

furbowski - 22-5-2008 at 06:46 AM

Oh, dear, just sounds better and better the more i hear...

I'm really thinking hard about the 10m as a quality fixed foil for low winds...

The news about the light fabric is excellent!

with the weekend coming up surely its a matter of days if not hours before somebody flies and posts a review!

please please please!

furbo...

BeamerBob - 22-5-2008 at 08:27 AM

I get to fly on Saturday and rest assured you'll all know my opinion. I'll be off line till sometime Monday. Lots of family coming into town with a kite day planned for Saturday. All the guys will get to fly. We have about 8mph winds forecast so noone will get hurt flying anything. Not the best to test a kite in but maybe it will be enough. Angus will have flown in coastal winds by then as well. This is a much anticipated kite and if the bag and kite killers are any indication of where things are going, I'm excited for sure. I'm also interested in the big ones since light wind is an issue here much of the time.

tridude - 22-5-2008 at 09:18 AM

so will there by enough family there to account for a full set of teeth?:o Hey have a great weekend and Saturday looks good for winds in our part of the southeast. Dont forget pics................

BeamerBob - 22-5-2008 at 11:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tridude
so will there by enough family there to account for a full set of teeth?:o Hey have a great weekend and Saturday looks good for winds in our part of the southeast. Dont forget pics................


Oh yeah. full sets of teeth abound. And non of the cousins are married to each other either. :smilegrin:

BeamerBob - 27-5-2008 at 07:07 AM

Ok, I've had some flight time with the new CF. The major difference between this kite and its predecessor is the adjustable bridle. The 2 bridle settings are lifty/beginner/KGB and non-lifty/expert/buggy. When I set it to lifty, the kite flies much like my prior model CF flies. It is stable, with kick your pants pull. It turns well, spinning on a bridle line. I have tasted the lift somewhat, but haven't had winds over about 11-12. I needed about 14 mph to get good lift from the original CF and things seem the same here. I flew both kites one after another on Saturday and honestly on the lifty setting, the two kites seemed to be non-identical twins. They look different but don't seem to fly with much difference at all. To me this is a good thing because I heap a lot of praise on the original 5m CF.

When I change the bridle to the expert setting, things really change. The kite is faster through the window and the lift could be reduced. I guess I"m no expert but if I flew this kite close to the edge of the window, it would fold up on me instantly. The literature says this setting is good for the buggy because it boosts upwind performance by allowing the kite to fly further into the edge of the wind window. I would not be able to buggy with it in the buggy setting because it seems to require a great deal of attention near the edge. I got some diagrams to check my bridle settings and apparently have the lifty setting dialed in. I want to check further to make sure the buggy setting is as it was designed. I will update as I get more flying time and fly in different wind conditions.

I wish my review was more full of praise, but I have to be honest with my experience. I have a special affection for HQ kites and want this kite and the company to be a successful market leader. I'm anxious to hear reports from others that have had some flight time to see if their experiences were like mine.

furbowski - 27-5-2008 at 07:23 AM

hi beamerbob

good to hear more about the CF II. Sounds like it is a bit too depowered at the edge of the window, a shame it likes to fold up like a pansh, but doesn't mean it's unflyable, eh?

how did it behave turning on powers as opposed to turning on brakes?

And how does the second adjustment work? Is it a turning speed adjustment on crossover lines on powers like the blade?

The first adjustment sounds like a simple AoA adjustment, but I'm still unsure what the second adjustment does.

Sounds like it could still be a good low wind kite in the larger sizes...

cheers,

furbo

BeamerBob - 27-5-2008 at 07:35 AM

There is only 1 adjustment system. No cross bridles. It has two settings to choose from. You just loosen a larkshead and slip that bridle up 10mm to the other knot and do the same on the other power bridle and you are done. I want to fiddle with the knot location for the buggy setting and see if I can get the benefits without the leading edge tuck.

acampbell - 27-5-2008 at 07:37 AM

Yep, upwind performance is great and rivals the Blurr, but snaps shut like a moustrap if you get too close to the edge. The reduced lift is apparent and I never felt like I was going to be tea-bagged when bring ing the kite up to the top in 15-20 mph winds. But had I swooped it up fast it would be different story. Turning is fast and easy

To be fair to HQ, both Bobby and I got some of the first kites that snuck through with incorrect bridle settings and we were given instructions on how to correct them. Perhaps some more tweaking is needed, and clearly some more time with the kite. HQ makes it clear that the low lift setting is for experienced kiters.

Fortuanetely/ unfortunately, I have to close up at the end of the week for 2 weeks while I go overseas on vacation, so It may be bit before I have a go.

lunchbox - 27-5-2008 at 07:42 AM

Hey BB,

Thanks for the quick write-up.

I know they're two different sizes but if you factor that in, what are your thoughts on how it compares to your blade as it relates to turning speed, upwind performance, lift and most of all, stability.

Thanks.

lunchbox - 27-5-2008 at 07:48 AM

Quote:

Yep, upwind performance is great and rivals the Blurr, but snaps shut like a moustrap if you get too close to the edge.


That was the one thing I was really hoping for...that they would enhance the stability at the edge!

Quote:

HQ makes it clear that the low lift setting is for experienced kiters.


When I first read BB's write up I thought this might be a typo. I thought for sure the high lift setting would be for experts. But I guess more attention is to be paid when the low lift settting is chosen due to decreased 'stability'?

furbowski - 27-5-2008 at 07:52 AM

OK, only one setting and only two choices?

That's actually disappointing, it sounded actually like two diff adjustments with three settings on each, oh well...

It did sound during the build-up over the past month that it was going to be a well dialled-in kite...

But when I had my 5m Ace depowered for a while I had to watch it pretty carefully at the edge of the windzone, this sounds about the same. It only took a degree or so of adjustment (towards power) to get much more stability at the edge with a little loss in kite speed, maybe something the same for the CF II?

BeamerBob - 27-5-2008 at 08:16 AM

Ok, since Angus mentioned the bridle issue, I'll expand. I notified Tim Baxmeyer at HQ-USA when I discovered there was an issue with flight characteristics. Overnight, I received emails back from Tim and Jan-Hendrik Junker at HQ Powerkites in Germany. They said that a few had slipped out of mfg with bridle adjustment knots that were about a quarter inch from where they were supposed to be. This bridle is VERY sensitive to the position of the holding knots. Just a few millimeters makes a huge difference per Alex Hess. Jan-Hendrik sent me an extensive diagram from Alex, showing the way the bridle should appear when adjusted correctly. I feel like I have the lifty setting dialed in. I want to put a caliper on the bridle to double check the distance between the two knots. More to follow.

BeamerBob - 27-5-2008 at 08:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by lunchbox
Hey BB,

Thanks for the quick write-up.

I know they're two different sizes but if you factor that in, what are your thoughts on how it compares to your blade as it relates to turning speed, upwind performance, lift and most of all, stability.

Thanks.


The 5m CF II obviously turns faster than a 6.5 Blade. Stability on the lifty setting is fine, no issues at all. I could really crank the brakes in a tight turn and force it to tuck a corner, but I consider that an issue with me just pushing too hard with not enough wind. I would be remiss if I gave the CF a bad comparison with a Blade when I'm not 100% certain I have the bridle perfectly adjusted as Alex (HQ head designer) intended it to be. We can go into that when all is verified on the bridles.

tridude - 27-5-2008 at 09:04 AM

so possibly a couple minor tweeks or learning the sail, easy stuff. Sounds good in the powered up/KGB, jumping mode. :thumbup: So its a 8m CF2 or 9m Riot, I hate choices sometimes!

B-Roc - 27-5-2008 at 09:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tridude
So its a 8m CF2 or 9m Riot, I hate choices sometimes!


Split the difference and go with an 8.5 Blade:wink2:

acampbell - 27-5-2008 at 09:58 AM

I will double check my bridle knots. I was pulling pretty hard on my upwind runs and there is a chance they could have slipped. As bobby notes, the tolerances are small. I am still convinced this a winner and am not disappointed. As usual, HQ's support has been teriffic, both here and in Germany.

furbowski - 27-5-2008 at 10:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by B-Roc
Quote:
Originally posted by tridude
So its a 8m CF2 or 9m Riot, I hate choices sometimes!


Split the difference and go with an 8.5 Blade:wink2:


Zloty's 8.5 or 9.0?

I wonder if he's willing to sell the 8.5?

BeamerBob - 27-5-2008 at 10:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by acampbell
I will double check my bridle knots. I was pulling pretty hard on my upwind runs and there is a chance they could have slipped. As bobby notes, the tolerances are small. I am still convinced this a winner and am not disappointed. As usual, HQ's support has been teriffic, both here and in Germany.


I would like to find a way to make 1mm adjustments in a manner other than retying those knots. Since the tolerance seems to be so small, I'd like to be able to make very tiny adjustments to get it perfect and to accommodate my apparent less than expert flying attention or abilities. Maybe for me, something less than the designers low lift setting would be more appropriate. I do want to get my hands on an 8-9m version someday. I will contiinue to work with this one per the instructions.

Also to give HQ their due, this bridle setting is covered in detail in the manual, and Angus is right, support was thorough and fast.

furbowski - 27-5-2008 at 10:33 AM

1mm adjustments?

could try some kind of ultralite turnbuckle?

or maybe a munter hitch tied around a power ring?

or a couple of opposed double fisherman's knots, with loops between the knots adding tension at about a mm per loop?

can't think of anything easier than retying the knots a mm at a time that wouldn't involve rebuilding parts of the bridle...

trial and error, part of flying kite!:frog:

DAKITEZ - 27-5-2008 at 10:51 AM

My report is exactly the same as above. I was in 8-12mph (beach breezes) and on the beginner setting the kite was super stable and tons of power. Not enough wind to tell how much lift it had. On the advanced knot was a complete different story. I will be doing some tweeking also and I want to give it a try in the gusty inland conditions in the buggy, before I give my thoughts.

acampbell - 27-5-2008 at 05:31 PM

Just checked and my bridle adjustments were way off. I clearly had not stressed them and "set" them properly. The strain of the upwind runs moved them quite bit. I'll be anxious to test it but that will be a while due to travel.

SCREWYFITS - 28-5-2008 at 10:02 PM

Hey all...
I got 2 cents now... Dlish and I had a lil fun today... I actually feel all giddy like a lil school girl... first reason was due to the Crossfire II 5m of Dlish's I can relate to the flying issues that have been posted... Dlish was kind enough to let me put a screwy tweak on it and I'd have to say "By Golly... I think He's Got It" :lol: we added a knot to the AOA settings... I believe Dlish had made a factory tweak to it based on some instructions from HQ... well as most have stated the knot closest to the handles flew darn good if you ask me we were in 10-15 high @ 20's clean wind (very nice) we added a knot apx 1/2" closer to the handles and that setting seemed to be the ticket... I know I had to be hitting the highest pen jumps to date for me... :singing: One thing that me and Dlish agreed on was a few words that describe the CF II cushy, soft or caddy it was just so easy to fly... soft feeling @ the zenith... floaty... felt as if you had all the control in the world and you were driving a caddy...
Beautiful kite over all... I was very impressed... I think the knots that he had could have been moved 3/4 of an inch and he would have hit the spot... basically the setting he has now...
2nd reason I feel all giddy was this had to be the best day I've had to date... great clean wind 10-15 it was never never land... OOOHHHHH I forgot too mention we found this new spot... Golden... should be butter any time there is wind... location is still a secret...
A few pics from today...
Pic #1

Pic #2

Pic #3

Ace 5m and CF II 5m side by side comparison...

DAKITEZ - 28-5-2008 at 10:28 PM

Thanks Screwy for the pics. (who's the poser? :lol: )
Great day .. I feel like I won the lotto ... just look at all that green grass in the pictures.
Just to say alittle more about the spot .. we are not trying to keep it to ourselves or anything, but we just got the green light to fly there today and we want to make sure we get in tight with the people first, before we bring the masses. We haven't even approached them yet about the buggy's. We want them to like us and accept us then we will ask about the buggy's and share with the crew. Its a huge privledge (sp) to be able to fly in these spots, so we want to take it slow and make sure we get to use this spot for along time to come.

BeamerBob - 29-5-2008 at 03:25 AM

I'm wondering what affect having a 3rd knot on that bridle will be. I agree that my handle-side knot flies great and my current knot for the buggy is almost unflyable. Makes me want to see an expert fly it and get some good out of it at the edge of the window. Maybe HQ could do an unofficial youtube vid? I don't feel so inadequate now that 4 of us are having the same trouble. WolfeL has approached me for help with the bridle on his 6.5. We can't all be that bad at flying kites.

DAKITEZ - 29-5-2008 at 08:48 AM

BB-
I don't think its us. I was watching Screwy fly it yesterday. When it was on the beginner knot it fly good and would go out to the edge of the wind and have no problems. Then we put it on the advanced knot and when he flew it towards the edge of the window he only got about half to 2/3 of the way to where the edge was on the beginner knot and the kite just folded and died.
With all that said I have never flown a race kite so I don't know if they just have alot smaller window or what.

HQ-Powerkites - 29-5-2008 at 11:23 AM

dlish89 ,

Check the distance between knot A. and B It should be the following:
3.0: 10mm
4.0: 12mm
5.0: 14mm
6.5-10.0: 20mm

mm is milimeter; I know it is a little bit hard to measure correctly. But if the CF is folding too much, shorten the distance a little. I flew the CFII 3.0 in a buggy this past weekend for over an hour in knot B setting.
After initial problems, I got used to manually breaking the kite before it folded up. You can almost feel it right before it colapses. Just give some break input snd the kite stays in shape. Make sure, you brake is not too loose; I would rather recommend the fouth brake knot (closer to the kite).

Tim
HQ-Powerkites

DAKITEZ - 29-5-2008 at 12:10 PM

Thanks Tim.
I have to go buy a measuring device that has mm on it. Then I will measure the distance. there is a posibility that they are off alittle, because my kite needed the original adjustment out of the bag so i may not of put them back exact.
I must say though I'm really liking the setting that Screwy came up with yesterday on a 3rd knot. I know its not for everyone, but what it did was increase the lift and made it extremely stable. Another bonus was it decreased the power of the kite low in the power zone. It made it a real user friendly jumping kite and has no effect on the 2 factory knots. Then just drop back to the A knot and its power on again.

SCREWYFITS - 29-5-2008 at 01:40 PM

HQ-Powerkites,

Is it possible to get the correct measurements from the bridal connection point to the knots...

Because I think that either Dlish had them in the wrong spot or got the wrong #'s because with them (IMO) moved toward the handles apx 3/4" from where Dlish had them is Key... both knots usable and IMO fantastic... I Love the kite...

I was in disbelief when Dlish got back and told me that the kite wasn't as good as expected... I said yeah right... cmon the truth... your lying... stop pulling my leg... well I understand where he was coming from with the knots in the wrong spot it wasn't the kite I would of expected...

Look to see my quiver bulge with a few HQ's:singing:

HQ-Powerkites, also I'm available for R&D most of the week:D:D:D:lol:

HQ-Powerkites - 29-5-2008 at 02:14 PM

see the pdf attached, that explains what and where to pay attention to.

Let me know if it does not make sense.
The CFII leaves some room to play with the setting besides the factory setup. Tuning is very individual and soes not always aplly to everyones flying style.

Tim

HQ-Powerkites - 29-5-2008 at 02:15 PM

i just got a msg that the attachment was too big....

email me at t.baxmeyer at hq-kites-usa dot com and I will email you the adjustment sheet

Tim

SCREWYFITS - 29-5-2008 at 07:16 PM

Email sent...

tridude - 29-5-2008 at 09:06 PM

14mm for your 5m is .55 inches or a 1/2 inch.

May be reading too much into this but both DTS lines should be checked for equal length (how long are they supposed to be)? Next, A knot tolerance from the handle end of the power bridle (how far up is the knot supposed to be), then B knot tolerance from the kite (how far down is the knot supposed to be)? If these tolerances are achieved, your final measurement between A and B knots on the 5 meter for example should be 14 millimeters, or .55 inches. or................

how long should the DTS line be? How far up should A knot be on the power bridle, then measure up from A knot depending on kite size for B knot tolerance.............Without the DTS line and A knot tolerances (line length and how far up A knot should be) moving B knots around seems pointless. You need all three tolerances in the first scenario or the first two in the second scenario..............

SCREWYFITS - 29-5-2008 at 11:44 PM

From what I gathered the three bridal connection points are supposed to line up in the high lift setting and the other knot apx 14mm away (further from the handles) creating a lower AOA less lift and better for the buggy...

my beliefs: both knots could move apx 14mm or 1/2" toward the handles... top knot goes where the lower knot goes and that knot moves 14mm closer to the handle... This is damn close to the way we have Dlish's CF II 5m set up and IMO is perfect... (I just tied an extra knot apx 14mm closer to the handle and left the other knot there... so it has 3 knots, one that should never get used) I'm unsure if each kite is different and needs them in different spots relevant to it's own bridal...

Good luck...

Hope HQ has them set up from the factory from here on out...

Next week I'll try and get exact measurements and post them... after another butta day of flying at the farm...:singing:

tridude - 30-5-2008 at 04:19 AM

"From what I gathered the three bridal connection points are supposed to line up in the high lift setting and the other knot apx 14mm away (further from the handles) creating a lower AOA less lift and better for the buggy"...

sounds all well and good but where is your reference point? Case in point, performing a mixer test on a certain brand kite has reference points/knots that need to be aligned prior to adjusting the mixer. This reference point assures both sides of the sail are tuned equally.

BeamerBob - 30-5-2008 at 04:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tridude
"From what I gathered the three bridal connection points are supposed to line up in the high lift setting and the other knot apx 14mm away (further from the handles) creating a lower AOA less lift and better for the buggy"...

sounds all well and good but where is your reference point? Case in point, performing a mixer test on a certain brand kite has reference points/knots that need to be aligned prior to adjusting the mixer. This reference point assures both sides of the sail are tuned equally.




This image is what the bridle is supposed to look like in the factory intended hi lift mode. Notice that the two knots align with the top of the ring.

You can see a hi res version in my pic link in the sig.

tridude - 30-5-2008 at 05:25 AM

by looking at your pic if your orange line or DTS lines are equal length and your blue or power lines are equal, all you need to know is how far up for A knot needs to be. This would be your reference for B knot distances according to sail size.............

BeamerBob - 30-5-2008 at 05:35 AM

You are correct. It is a balancing act to get those 3 points to line up perfectly. I'm wondering if Screwy is right about shifting both knots towards the handles a quarter to half inch. I'm going to try it all before I quit fiddling with it. There is great potential within this kite, it just isn't all wrapped up in a nice bow. It takes some tinkering. Tim showed me a picture of tying a small piece of cord on the bridle ahead of an adjustment knot with a larkshead to use as a trial spacer. That will be good for the trial and error sessions.

SCREWYFITS - 30-5-2008 at 01:05 PM

Hey Beamerbob,
In the pic of yours I noticed that you have very lil piggy tail left (the amount of line from the knot closest to the handle to the knot that the power line connects to) not that it matters much, but kinda boggling to me that there is that much difference...

The outcome in reference to the bridal connection points;
In low lift the 3 knots angled up toward the rear (the orange knot was apx 6/7mm from the front knot and the knot on top of the ring was equally in between)
In the high lift setting just the opposite, the 3 knots angled down toward the rear apx 6/7mm from front knot to the orange knot...

I agree that this kite (so far) does not come wrapped in a bow, you have to fly it to get it to wrap in a bow:lol::lol::lol::lol: sorry I couldn't resist...

I was able to keep it from bow tying also, but I believe you shouldn't have to fly a kite in less of a window just to keep it in the air... but I messed with it until I get it to behave... (the slightly tout breaks helped keep it from overflying). So far I think I have Dlish's on point...

I'm gonna try and get pics and #'s for ya all up soon...
You can at least try it, if you want and see if you like it better...

Great Kite, hope everyone comes to enjoy it...

WolfeL - 1-6-2008 at 08:09 PM

I just checked the bridle adjustments, and while they are off the knots are also tied differently than in the illustrations. The knot on the left actually has (2) loops through the red bridle lines which shortens the length 2-3mm.

The knot through the ring (center) is actually wrapped around the blue bridle line which also shortens that bridle length, while the illustration shows both loops only wrapping around the ring.

I will go ahead and match the pictures for both bridle loops, and then measure for proper length.

CrossFireBridleBefore.JPG - 79kB

WolfeL - 1-6-2008 at 08:15 PM

Illustration of how knots SHOULD be tied (not length which is shown when incorrect)

CF_Bridle2.jpg - 96kB

DAKITEZ - 1-6-2008 at 08:47 PM

WolfeL
so do I understand correctly that your bridles that came from HQ are picture 1 ? or is that your mod ?

WolfeL - 1-6-2008 at 09:15 PM

They came like that. It was one of the first 6.5-meters off the boat. I have not applied any mods, and am attempting to stabilize the kite on the edges of the window.

Are all the 5-meter CF II's knotted as shown in the how-to illustration?

-Lee

SCREWYFITS - 1-6-2008 at 09:40 PM

Quote:

Are all the 5-meter CF II's knotted as shown in the how-to illustration?


I'm unsure... anyone???

Pic 1 is crazy... there is no reason for the ring if this is the way they were planed to be used... the blue line is supposed to slide through the ring...:o This is mind boggling...:puzzled: what a trip...

Sounds like you are on the right path...:thumbup:

BeamerBob - 2-6-2008 at 03:10 AM

yeah, you have an error on your ring. I had to snug up the lines on my ring but they weren't bound around the other bridle like yours. You should match the picture from HQ. Then see how she flies. I had a great day with mine yesterday. Tried the third knot and it killed the performance of the kite. Very slow and hard to keep in the sky. Didn't help the lift much either. I guess I had moved my second knot enough that a third knot made it too much. In what I think is the lifty setting, the kite flew very stable and fast. Not enough wind for jumping but she was a pleasure to fly now.

SCREWYFITS - 2-6-2008 at 03:34 AM

Did it seem to have a hard time inflating and staying inflated?
What was the apx wind range... I'm suspicious of the wind range on these... the day Dlish and I had flown it, the the wind was a clean 12-15 and later maybe 20's... when he flew it at the beach he had less wind I believe... 8-12... hmmmmmm...

BeamerBob - 2-6-2008 at 04:12 AM

I had low winds. Maybe 8 at best. I imagine that's why you were getting away with that third knot. I commonly have these sub 8 mph winds and have to make the best of it. I'm happy with my lifty setting but am going to lengthen the "buggy" knot and try some slightly longer positions with some pigtail spacers for optimization on both knots. I've never had trouble inflating this kite and keeping it that way. I also noticed a difference between the II and original CF yesterday. This kite launches more readily. The old model would be tough to launch in light winds and this one just jumps up in the sky.

SCREWYFITS - 2-6-2008 at 04:55 AM

Interesting...

I know what will fix everything...



Screwy handles :lol: :lol: :lol: just hook them up and the wind picks up and smooth and clean... :D :D :D hopefully you'll have'm this week...

let us know what you find with moving that buggy knot...

Screwy

WolfeL - 5-6-2008 at 01:58 PM

Well I adjusted the left knot shown above to only have one loop through the red bridle lines instead of two, and re-did the knot through the loop so it could slide as illustrated. At this point all the knots lined up, so it was time to fly.

The wind was 12-14mph with gusts to 20+, so I was slightly intimidated with the CF II 6.5m in these conditions. Against better judgement :puzzled: I cautiously launched the kite up the side of the window and kept it high overhead in the high-lift setting.

I've been flying and jumping with someone's 4.9 Blade IV in the high-lift setting and am familiar with the "Blade Pose", but this kite was pulling me straight up vertical with what seemed like 160-180 pounds of force. Not just on gusts, but nearly all the time as I kept the kite at zenith. I was either unweighted and moon-walking across the field, or lofted a few inches just struggling to control the kite. I felt completely over-powered at zenith and quickly named the kite "Otis" for the relentless elevator like tendencies.

I purposely did not wear the kite-killers so I could bail out and let the kite go in this large field, so decided to try a few re-directs (also against better judgement talking in my ear).

The first very high very slow re-direct was fine as I struggled to just stay on the ground. Then as I re-directed the other way, the combination of slightly more speed and a gust lifted me hard. I felt myself still accelerating up at about 4-5 feet, but can't say how high it was. It felt too over-powering in these dirty wind conditions with the 6.5m, so I packed the CF II up and launched a smaller kite.

This is my low-wind jumping kite and I'm sticking to 10-14mph for now and it will need to be CLEAN wind :yes:

SCREWYFITS - 9-6-2008 at 02:33 PM

I think I'm aiming for a 6.5m order here in a few days, so lets see what the bridal will look like now...

BeamerBob - 10-6-2008 at 02:54 AM

After my great session, I'm sure this is a great kite and there are good settings for the kite. I might pick up one of the 8 meter models for the light wind days. Those babys are L O N G. Higher AR on the bigger models.

tridude - 10-6-2008 at 05:24 AM

found this on powerkites.de.................looks easy/peasy to adjust in. Flysurfer has the same type of trimming adjustments on their mixers. Nice illustrations and what it should/should not look like.


http://ghidora.liquidweb.com/%7Einventoh/images/stories/down...

BeamerBob - 10-6-2008 at 09:47 AM

I have that and forwarded it on to all that I knew had a new CF. Couldn't find a way to post a pdf though.

kiteNH - 13-6-2008 at 12:50 PM

Just saw this demo CFII 5.0m on eBay. Looks like a good deal. I'm tempted, but not convinced that this will perform any better than my Riot which is more or less new itself so I'm holding off on the CFII's for now.


http://cgi.ebay.com/DEMO-Crossfire-II-5-0m-Kite-like-the-fle...

SCREWYFITS - 13-6-2008 at 07:29 PM

Spanking good deal if you can score it cheap enough... I'm getting the 6.5m CF II soon... on order...
Not familiar with the Riot... Would love a chance at piloting one someday...
After finding a great setup on the CF II's I'm very impressed with them... very fun kite...

acampbell - 15-6-2008 at 04:40 PM

I've just gotten back from 2 weeks vacation and had a chance to fly the CF II 5.0m with newly corrected bridle for a good while in 9-11 mph winds building in the end to just over 12 mph steady. I flew it against the Flexifoil Blurr 5.0 and the Peter Lynn Reactor 4.9. When I get a chance to fly them all in higher winds I will post a complete review in another thread, but I though it worth commenting now on the CF II with the corrected bridle since previous posts in this thread (including mine) had cast some doubt about the kite's bridle issues and performance.

I can now say that any doubts I had about the kite and bridle are completely vanquised and I can wholeheartily recommend this kite as a versatile, high performance kite suitable for any experienced flyer who wants to go somewhere in a buggy, KGB, or on skis. That being said, with the great price of the kite for its performance, I would still recommend it for the static flyer and jumper, especailly if they aspire to get some wheels or skis in the future.

Recall that only a few of us (Bobby, Dlish, maybe some others) got some of the first few kites that slipped through with some incorrect knot settings on the ground adjustable bridle. HQ issued a teriffic technical bulliten on how to correct the problem, but after my first pass at putting in the fix, it turns out that I had not "set" the new knot placements under load, so that when I flew the kite with lots of stressful upwind work, the knots drifted way out of spec.

My second attempt has prove much better. Other customers going forward should not even worry about this issue as all kites leaving HQ USA have been inspected and adjusted as necesssary and futer production runs should be in spec.

Flying in 9-11 mph winds, the kite flew fine on the standard (more lifty) setting. Flying static and taking the kite through its paces all the way to the edges of the window, the kite was rock solid steady and easy to fly. After landing the kite and changing the "DTS" (Dynamic Trim System) to the low lift "buggy " setting, I launched again and put the kite through the same paces. This time, while I could tease it towaards the edge of the window it would still occasionally bow-tie, snapping shut like a mouse trap. But this is not really a problem for reasons I am about to explain.

I next hopped into the buggy and took the kite for a run with the DTS on the standard (lifty) setting. 8-11 mph winds meant there was no danger of an OBE. Due to higher than normal beach crowds, even on Kite Beach, I was constrained to a short course that put me on a broad reach one way and an upwind run the other. The kite was terrific in every way. It stayed stable in the tricky downwind runs and turned on a dime to let me work it and keep it flying. Upwind runs were smooth and productive if I kept sining it for power.

I then landed and put the DTS on the high-speed, low-lift "buggy setting". In the light wind, I had no benefit from this setting and in fact saw a drop in performance upwind, but I did notice that on any point of sail there was very little tendancy to tuck and luff (bow-tie) when pushed to the edge of the window. Sometimes a wing tip would start to tuck but a quick application of brake to pull it back, or a turn to speed it up would restore order right away. Clearly this kite likes to be in motion.

Soon the wind bult to a steady 12+ mph and the default lifty setting started to feel a little bit drafty under my arse, so I went back to the low lift buggy setting. Clearly this 12+ wind was the sweet spot, as the kite took on a new behavior. The low lift setting was now a great benefit that tamed overhead lift and improved upwind performance. The kite was now steady all the way to the edge of the window upwind and downwind-- if you learn how to read it. I have yet to test in higher winds, but I suspect that static flying on this setting under such conditions will be just fine.

Airplane pilots and and aviation enthusiasts will know that many commercial aircraft have "stick shakers" that will rattle the control yoke to let the pilot know of an impending stall and that corrective action (change angle of attack) must be taken immediately. The Crossfire II does much the same when set in motion. I found that on the low lift, high-speed setting in stronger winds, when the kite was about to luff, there would be a momentarty shudder in the foil that could be felt in the handles and even heard as a delicate "whump". A quick application of brake tension or a move to sine the kite to increase apparent airspeed would avert any collapse and keep the kite moving smartly. Jibes required proper execution and were less tolerant of slopiness than the Blurr or the Reactor, but were fine in a wide range of tacking angles if you stayed ahead of the kite.

Some other higher performance buggy kites may be easier to fly, but HQ makes it clear that this kite is not for the beginner. But the versatility of this kite that makes it suitable for a wide range of disciplines in the hands of an intermediate to advanced flier, plus the affordability for such a high perfomance foil, earns it a strong recommendation. In these conditions it kept up with the more expensive Reactor and the Blurr (but I remind you again that it takes a bit more touch than those do).

I'll look forward to flying the CF II 5.0m in higher winds to complete my head-to-head with the other kites and will look forward to flying the larger sizes in light winds. I'm sure I will be pleased.

SCREWYFITS - 15-6-2008 at 06:25 PM

Great review AG,

I'm happy to hear the great news... I have a CF II 6.5m on the way so I hope to compare it to the 5m of Dlish's and back up the bridal claim to be resolved from the factory... This has been (in my eyes) an exciting and anticipated kite...

Screwy...

BeamerBob - 15-6-2008 at 06:47 PM

Angus, its good to have you back. Thanks for the review. You are one of those I'm always excited to see a post from and this review is why. I pondered earlier about the possibility that the kite would behave differently if in motion. This makes me more strongly consider an 8 meter for those low wind days. I've been happy with my corrected bridle flying static but haven't had wheels to test one with the buggy setting. I'm glad we are finding what this kite likes and where it fits into the scheme of things.

WTrail - 24-6-2008 at 03:53 PM

So for my second kite I picked the Crossfire II 5.0. It should be on the way right now and I might have it by the weekend.

The only other kite I have flown is a Beamer (version 1) 2.5....Any suggestions for me to avoid killing myself?!

I figure I'll start with low winds and be sure to use the kite killers but is there anything else?

I'm 185 lbs and have been flying the Beamer for a few months in varied winds.

BeamerBob - 24-6-2008 at 06:52 PM

You are probably ready and on track. Light winds (under 10 to start) and kite killers with some room to run. Helmet is never regretted unless you leave it at home. I bought my first crossfire at 5 months with the beamer but would've been fine with it at 2-3 months.

BeamerBob - 12-8-2008 at 07:11 PM

Now that I have a buggy on the horizon and fall winds to look forward to, I'm looking forward to some more time with the Crossfire. My winds all summer have been little or nothing, so I've gotten my biggest kite out every chance I've thought I had to fly. When the wind picks up, the Blade will be a little lifty and I'll be eyeing the CF II 5m. Have any of you had further experience with this kite in the 5+m sizes? I still need to experiment with the 5m to get the buggy setting dialed in and then take off in a buggy with it in that setting to get to know the kite better. I am thinking the 8m is a good choice for my typical light wind days as well and am interested in any flight experience anyone might have.

SCREWYFITS - 12-8-2008 at 10:46 PM

well the CF II 6.5m is my fav kite right now (jumping) but I don't use it in the Bug at all... I have, but it over flies too easy and is very frustrating and I haven't found a setting that works yet other than give it a lil break to keep it back in the window a lil further and that works a charm but if I'm gonna bug I'll use a more bug friendly kite... I totally love this kite, so don't get me wrong... its the first out on the field... but I'm not real happy in the bug with this kite... when I've flown others it makes this a fun jump/freestyle kite for me...
good luck BB, that bug you are getting should be the bomb...