PHREERIDER - 14-6-2008 at 08:04 PM
hooked a no pump rig on the used market.
Gotta see what this thing can do.
i believe this is a twin skin unit?
ANYONE might offer what they feel would be the upper limit might be with this kite? i routinely run a 16m lei up to about 20-25mph. not sure how this
set up compares to lei. hope a 10-12mph will be a good gear check/ tune.
furbowski - 15-6-2008 at 12:46 AM
I'm intrigued by these kites but I've never flown one, nor any big water kite...
having said that, i lurk a lot on racekites.com and most of the many twinskin folks on there say the upper limit with the depower is quite high, 25-30
mph with skills and a smooth wind depending on how heavy you are, and need at least 8-10 to get fully inflated and work a full window, but don't
really start working the full depower range until 15 or so. 15-25 would be a sweet spot with skills and experience, beyond that nervousness kicks in.
all totally unqualified and most def IMHO, please bear in mind
edit: just checked the wind range calculator link above, says 7-18 knots for for my 70 kg / 155 lbs / 11 stone if i've got all those right, could also
say 8-23 mph, sounds like a nice kite (oops, that was the kite-surfing setting, um, let's see...) now it says 5-12 knots, call that 6-15 mph, sounds
like a low wind beast... a few of the others are good down to 4 knots for my weight, so the chart says...
I'll be curious to hear how that kite treats you, esp in the bottom bits of its wind range...
enjoyed your night fly pics a few days back, thanks for sharing...
ripsessionkites - 15-6-2008 at 01:44 AM
hope this helps:
Venom 19 ---> Inflatable 16-17
Venom 16 ---> Inflatable 14
Venom 13 ---> Inflatable 11-11.5
Venom 10 ---> Inflatable 8-9
Taper123 - 15-6-2008 at 05:18 AM
Here's an ARC size calculator for you based on weight to show the wind speeds it can be used in. As a general rule, you need a larger ARC than you
would LEI. But they handle gusts very well and are easy to depower.
http://www.kite-fantastic.co.uk/articles/mx5alan/arc-wind-ra...
Using different line lengths and user skill level play a part as well.
You get a bar with it as well?
bigkahuna - 15-6-2008 at 06:44 AM
I had a Phantom 18 for a long while before I replaced it with a Venom 19 (and now a Bularoo 16 / Waroo 20). It's a great kite for its vintage, I know
I really liked and used mine a lot. It shares all the good and not so good qualities of other Peter Lynns: awesome stability, huge range, but not so
great turning speed and pretty darn hard (and sometimes impossible) to relaunch on the water. Use a good sized bar (55 cm or longer) and 27m lines
with a long depower line, and you'll be fine. Launching a PL takes a bit of technique, and because the Phantom is so skinny it can be a bit tricky,
but you'll sort it out and will be fine. I'd say that my Phantom 18 gave me about the same bottom end as a 15-16m C kite and a lot more top end.
Probably pretty close to a 15m bow/sle. FWIW, the Venom 19 has probably another knot more bottom end than the Venom 18.
PHREERIDER - 15-6-2008 at 03:09 PM
thanks guys, I DID A WATER SESSION YESTERDAY WITH 16M BOW WITH 10M EXT. GOT UP ON MY 137 (I am 215lbs.) considerable work in 12mph. difficult to
stay off the beach. solid onshore.
we had onshore all week. today (this morning) first break in the night runs... 6 in a row.. low tide has been around midnight in the last week.
wife's been out of town with the kid for a week.
12m c-kite has been rig of choice with the NPW5 here and there.
I will post when the phantom school is on.
peace
PHREERIDER - 17-6-2008 at 07:35 AM
VELCRO ON THE BELLY?
BIG KAHUNA,,CAUGHT AN OLD REVIEW AND YOU MENTIONED THIS ADDITION FOR LAUNCH, WONDERING WHAT ADVANTAGE IT GIVES YOU, AND WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
KITE HASN'T ARRIVED YET SO I DON'T HAVE MUCH TO GO ON..
DOES IT KEEP THE ZIP OPEN?
LINE ORIENTATION?
KEEPS THE LAY OUT STABLE?
SOUNDS LIKE A VALUABLE PREP ITEM
WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE.
PEACE
acampbell - 17-6-2008 at 09:39 AM
I'll let Kahuna expand but I think you are talking about what is on the new twinskins and is called "launch Assist". It is a velcro tab located near
the inflation scoop zipper but has nothing to do with the zipper. It is intended to hold the downwind lines on top of the kite and keep them from
getting wrapped around the tip or getting into other mischief.
When you set up the kite for launch, you lay it out on its back (top skin) with belly up parallel to the direction of the wind (one tip upwind, one
tip downwind). The lines should come off the kite behind it at a 45 degree angle to the wind. the downwind lines are held in place on the belly of
the kite and will pull out of the velcro when you tension the lines to launch. As you step back, the kite rolls off the ground starting with the
downwind tip and forms the taco shape, then should launch, flying along low to the edge of the window while it finishes inflating.
PHREERIDER - 17-6-2008 at 09:52 AM
i see, a line assistant.
curious as to the fill time (18m) ? I'm guessing 1-2min.
do you have to handle the kite to move the air or will it circulate? seems it would bag on one side
thanks for the help.
acampbell - 17-6-2008 at 10:50 AM
more than 1-2 min except for higher winds, from my experience. Air will generally circulate throughout the kite, but sometimes it helps to close the
zipper, push the air around to the low points by pushing the fabric around, then openning back up. Sometimes holding open the scoop helps.
Some have even used a cordless leaf blower, but I think that if you need that, you do not have enough wind to fly!
PHREERIDER - 17-6-2008 at 11:29 AM
won't be doing the leaf blower gig. i am patient with things like that .
no pump, that includes leaf blowers
i want to eliminate things ie. bladders and pumps
when i ride out i am gone on for 1-2 hours and 5 miles away the only thing i leave behind is a mark in the sand . worrying about stuff on the beach
can ruin a session. not having to return the pump to my truck will hopefully be at hand soon... phantom school like i was never there
peace
awindofchange - 17-6-2008 at 11:46 AM
The Phantom actually has three zippers on the belly. One in the very center for deflation, this zip would be on the trailing edge and parallel with
it. The other two zips are on the belly and run perpendicular to the trailing edge. One on each wing tip. This is nice because you can inflate the
kite better by opening the upwind zipper and filling the entire kite with it. The older PL's had one zip in the middle and you had to try and fill
the upwind tip with the middle zipper. This usually required pushing the air around in the kite as mentioned above. In the lightest of winds you may
still have to work in getting the kite full but in riding winds you will have no problems at all and it will inflate very quickly. Usually faster
than you can walk out your lines.
We have the Peter Lynn Twinskin video online if you want check it out. It is actually on the older twinskins but it is basically the same for any PL
twinskin kite.
Scroll down to find the video:
http://www.awindofchange.com/photo.html
The Phantom is a higher aspect ratio kite that was designed mainly for land use. Because of the higher aspect ratio it doesn't have a solid bottom
end power and may suffer a little in the lightest winds but....it has amazing range and is a dream to fly in the upper wind ranges. The lift and
float on this baby is awesome once you get it dialed in.
If your kite hasn't already got them put in, tie in some extra knots on the leading edge pigtails about 8 inches up from the end of the pitgail.
Attach your flying lines to this point and you should get a little better performance with the kite. Don't be afraid to adjust the pigtail attachment
to fit with your bar/flying style. Also, get yourself the longest depower adjuster strap that you can get, these things have a ton of depwer and most
bars aren't capable of utilizing it. The PL's will fly in nearly any configuration - even ones that are really screwed up - and you may be losing
performance and not even realizing it.
Nice score! Let us know how it goes for you.
PHREERIDER - 18-6-2008 at 05:47 AM
TAPER123 YES, BAR&LINES, KITE ONLY WAS NOT SPECIFIED, I GUESS WE'LL SEE. I DO HAVE AN IDLE BAR AND LINES FOR A 19M ANYWAY NOT REALLY
CONCERNED ABOUT IT. THE LINKS ARE HELPFUL, THANKS ALL. COULD BE FRI. THE FRONT TO REAR LINE OFF SET CAN BE MADE UP IN THE LEADERS FROM THE BAR. I
REALLY NEED TO SEE THE KITE TO KNOW. I NEED TO CONTACT THE SELLER AND SEE ABOUT DETAILS. IF I CAN GET THE WIFE AND KID THE TO THE BEACH, PICS AND
MAYBE VID OF THE LAUNCH, FLY AND PERHAPS A RIDE IF SET UP IS COMFORTABLE. I SHOULD SPEND A LITTLE TIME TWEAKING THIS UNIT RATHER WHAT I USUALLY DO
WHICH IS SET IT UP COMPLETELY WICS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-D OUT AND GET USE TO IT.
Taper123 - 18-6-2008 at 08:14 AM
I was out kiteboarding with an 18m Phantom last friday with a 65cm bar. Winds were around 12-15 and I had enough power to go up and down the beach.
The 18 only has the deflate and inflate zippers in the middle, but if you sit and hold it open for a few until one tip starts to take shape... it's
no problem. Just takes a little practice to hold the front lines in one hand, the bar in the other... and get the right angle for launch. Once you
do, it's pretty hard to knock one of these out of the sky. Gonna wipe out... let go, and the kite likes to patiently wait for you over your head.
Then I broke out a smaller scorpion (10m) to go buggyin' with. Felt like going from a truck to a high performance sports car in the way they handle.
Have fun with your new toy 
macboy - 18-6-2008 at 09:23 AM
I recall seeing somewhere someone saying that the key to a successful launch and relaunch was holding in the front lines and waiting patiently, not
just walking back with the bar. Anyone recall who it was and what the full story was?
GoldenMD - did you land the PL from "teklife" on eBay? That's where the 15 is coming to my house from. I hope we didn't accidentally jack each other's
prices though I don't think we did. If so I apologize. Small world huh? If it was the same seller I'm gonna be a week behind for shipping so let me
know about the bar / lines. I'm kinda scared because though it wasn't explicitly mentioned "kite-only" nor was it explicitly mentioned "with bar &
lines". Kicking myself for not asking but like you, I have a bar that will do.
PHREERIDER - 18-6-2008 at 12:41 PM
macboy ,,, yes i realized that you were onto the 15m soon after, the username similiar in some fashion. maybe it was a back log feedback? I
usually drop in 1 bid in the last 10 sec. i get it or just keep moving.
A FS voodoo 10 came up last fall/winter and i was fascinated by the no pump thing and may have eventually lead me to this forum. The guy selling it
really put on a show pics, video, & nice write up. Maybe an MD from TX i think. anyway that one got away and did not see any more for some time
and decided to be patient. Definitely got the impression that FS where the premium rigs. Then became exposed to the rest of the closed cells
available.
i did contact seller with the exact words DID NOT SEE ANY "kite only"specifically listed so i expected the bar and lines.. I have purchase a few kite
only and it was always listed.
i have had good luck with all the items on ebay and beyond what i expect usually.
small world
yesterday had a blistering session on the 16 bow, started jumping some. seemed far too easy and far too addictive . getting the feel for this new
board got about 8hours on it. i was hitting these 4-6ft swells maybe 1/2 mile offshore on this huge rolling section with the incoming tide. eating
up the landings like candy. i lost alot of ground went downwind maybe 2 miles before i knew it, but wow! well worth it